Hydro Junkie

No arguments on that, the "Bug" was definitely more fragile. Kind of like comparing the Zeke to the Wildcat in many ways. What I was reading is that, for a novice pilot, the Beau was a beast to fly. Once one had some time in it and learned how to really fly it, it was a a beast for the enemy to deal with

Hydro Junkie

Okay, time to start one. Looking for an aircraft
1) This plane was first flown during peacetime
2) This plane flew in combat before it's country of origin was committed to combat
3) This plane was used in multiple roles by several countries
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

What the heck, let's throw out another clue or two:
Looking for an aircraft
1) This plane was first flown during peacetime
2) This plane flew in combat before it's country of origin was committed to combat
3) This plane was used in multiple roles by several countries
4) This plane was markedly faster than any similar plane previously produced
5) This plane had a design feature not previously seen on aircraft used in a similar role
Good Luck

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

How about the The Douglas A-20 Havoc (DB-7; Boston; P-70, etc.,)? Thanks; Ernie P.


The Douglas A-20 Havoc (company designation DB-7) is an United States attack, light bomber, intruder and reconnaissance aircraft of World War II.It served with several Allied air forces, principally the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF), the Soviet Air Forces (VVS), Soviet Naval Aviation (AVMF), and the Royal Air Force (RAF) of the United Kingdom. Soviet units received more than one in three (2,908 aircraft) of the DB-7s ultimately built.

It was also used by the air forces of Australia, South Africa, France, and the Netherlands during the war, and by Brazil afterwards.[1]
In British Commonwealth air forces, bomber/attack variants of the DB-7 were usually known by the service name Boston, while night fighter and intruder variants were usually known as Havoc. An exception to this was the Royal Australian Air Force, which referred to all variants of the DB-7 by the name Boston.[2] The USAAF referred to night fighter variants as P-70.

In March 1937, a design team headed by Donald Douglas, Jack Northrop, and Ed Heinemann produced a proposal for a light bomber powered by a pair of 450 hp (336 kW) Pratt & Whitney R-985 Wasp Junior radial engines mounted on a shoulder wing.[3]
It was estimated that it could carry a 1,000 lb (454 kg) bomb load at 250 mph (400 km/h). Reports of aircraft performance from the Spanish Civil War indicated that this design would be seriously underpowered, and it was subsequently cancelled.

Later the same year, the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC) issued its own specification for an attack aircraft. The Douglas team, now headed by Heinemann, took the Model 7A design, upgraded with 1,100 hp (820 kW) Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp engines, and submitted the design as the Model 7B. It faced competition from the North American NA-40, Stearman X-100, and Martin 167F. The Model 7B was maneuverable and fast, but did not attract any US orders.

The model attracted the attention of a French Purchasing Commission visiting the United States seeking aircraft for the modernization of the Armee de l'Air in the wake of the Munich Crisis. The French discreetly participated in the flight trials, so as not to attract criticism from American isolationists. The Air Corps, which controlled the aircraft's development, but had been excluded from negotiations between the French, the Production Division, and the Navy's Bureau of Aeronautics, was directed by the White House on 19 January 1939 to release the DB-7 for assessment in contradiction of its own regulations. The "secret" was revealed when the Model 7B crashed on 23 January while demonstrating single-engine performance. The French were still impressed enough to order 100 production aircraft, with the order increased to 270 when the war began. Sixteen of those had been ordered by Belgium for its Aviation Militaire.

Although not the fastest or longest-range aircraft in its class, the Douglas DB-7 series distinguished itself as a tough, dependable combat aircraft with an excelente reputation for speed and maneuverability. In a report to the British Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment (AAEE) at RAF Boscombe Down, test pilots summed it up as: "has no vices and is very easy to take off and land ... The aeroplane represents a definite advantage in the design of flying controls ... extremely pleasant to fly and manoeuvre."[4] Ex-pilots often consider it their favorite aircraft of the war due to the ability to toss it around like a fighter.[5] The Douglas bomber/night fighter was found to be extremely adaptable and found a role in every combat theater of the war, and excelled as a true "pilot's aeroplane".[6]

When DB-7 series production finally ended on 20 September 1944, a total of 7,098 had been built by Douglas and a further 380 by Boeing. As a proof of American excellence in mαs production Douglas redesigned its Santa Monica plant to create a mechanized production line to produce A-20 Havocs. The assembly line was over a mile long (6,100 feet), but by looping back and forth, fitted into a building that was only 700 feet long. Man-hours were reduced by 50% for some operations. Production tripled.[7]

Hydro Junkie

Nope, not the Havoc. Time for another clue, or two:
Looking for an aircraft
1) This plane was first flown during peacetime
2) This plane flew in combat before it's country of origin was committed to combat
3) This plane was used in multiple roles by several countries
4) This plane was markedly faster than any similar plane previously produced
5) This plane had a design feature not previously seen on aircraft used in a similar role
6) This plane was powered by twin engines
7) This plane could carry a larger load than many contemporary aircraft of all types
Good Luck

Hydro Junkie

No more guesses? Time for another clue......or four:
Looking for an aircraft
1) This plane was first flown during peacetime
2) This plane flew in combat before it's country of origin was committed to combat
3) This plane was used in multiple roles by several countries
4) This plane was markedly faster than any similar plane previously produced
5) This plane had a design feature not previously seen on aircraft used in a similar role
6) This plane was powered by twin engines
7) This plane could carry a larger load than many contemporary aircraft of all types
8) This plane carried a crew of between 6 and 10, depending on the model and mission being taken
9) This plane helped win several battles because of it's capabilities
10) This plane was built in four countries and flown by the militaries of 27
11) This plane is still flying today, but in roles other than originally intended
Good Luck

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

The PBY seems to fit a lot of the clues, though I can only find three countries that built it (clue 10).

Hydro Junkie

Actually, it was built in the US, Canada, Britain and the Soviet Union. You know what that means AL YOU'RE UP
Now, the go over the clues:
1) This plane was first flown during peacetime The Catalina was first flown in 1935
2) This plane flew in combat before it's country of origin was committed to combat It was flying combat missions for England long before the US was in the war
3) This plane was used in multiple roles by several countries The Catalina was flown as a patrol plane, a bomber, torpedo plane, search and rescue and insertion of commandos
4) This plane was markedly faster than any similar plane previously produced It was much cleaner, aerodynamically, than any prior flying boat making it 50-75mph faster than any previous flying boat
5) This plane had a design feature not previously seen on aircraft used in a similar role It was the first flying boat to use a parasol wing. It was also the first to have retracting wingtip floats
6) This plane was powered by twin engines This one is self explanatory
7) This plane could carry a larger load than many contemporary aircraft of all types The Catalina could carry over 4,000 lbs of ordinance, more than many medium bombers
8) This plane carried a crew of between 6 and 10, depending on the model and mission being taken Again, self explanatory
9) This plane helped win several battles because of it's capabilities Most notably finding the Bismarck in May 1941 and the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway in June 1942
10) This plane was built in four countries and flown by the militaries of 27 Countries that built the Catalina are listed above
11) This plane is still flying today, but in roles other than originally intended The Catalina flies today as a water bomber as well as a personal aircraft in several countries

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

An excellent question, Hydro Junkie. Thanks; Ernie P.

Hydro Junkie

Believe me, Ernie, it was a spur of the moment deal. It wasn't until I started looking into the Catalina that I found out some the things I listed above. My next clue would have been that there were six models since the last Catalina model was the PBY-6A. It differed from the 5A in that it was radar equipped.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Well, I knew about the Bismarck and Midway stuff; but I learned a few things as well. I always marveled at the endurance of the Cats. Thanks; Ernie P.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

And here we go again.

Looking for the name of an airplane.

1. Derived from a civilian plane.

2. Its appearance differed enough from its civilian ancestor that one could tell at a glance which was which.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Well, how about the most obvious answer; the C-47? While I'm at it, I want to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year; and to thank all of you for helping add to my knowledge of warbirds; and in a fun, amusing and thoroughly enjoyable manner. Thanks; Ernie P.

The Douglas C-47 Skytrain or Dakota (RAF designation) is a military transport aircraft developed from the civilian Douglas DC-3 airliner. It was used extensively by the Allies during World War II and remains in front line service with various military operators. The C-47 differed from the civilian DC-3 in numerous modifications, including being fitted with a cargo door, hoist attachment, and strengthened floor, along with a shortened tail cone for glider-towing shackles, and an astrodome in the cabin roof.

The specialized C-53 Skytrooper troop transport started production in October 1941 at Douglas Aircraft's Santa Monica, California plant. It lacked the cargo door, hoist attachment and reinforced floor of the C-47. Only a total of 380 aircraft were produced in all because the C-47 was found to be more versatile.

During World War II, the armed forces of many countries used the C-47 and modified DC-3s for the transport of troops, cargo, and wounded. The U.S. Naval designation was R4D. More than 10,000 aircraft were produced in Long Beach and Santa Monica, California and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Between March 1943 and August 1945 the Oklahoma City plant produced 5,354 C-47s.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Not the C-47, though there are some similarities. This clue is about a difference.

Looking for the name of an airplane.

1. Derived from a civilian plane.

2. Its appearance differed enough from its civilian ancestor that one could tell at a glance which was which.

3. The civilian plane from which this plane was descended has generally been regarded as unsuccessful, although its performance had some very good aspects.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Well, again; I see no reason not to stick with the obvious. How about the C-46? Thanks; Ernie P.

The Curtiss C-46 Commando is a transport aircraft derived from the Curtiss CW-20 pressurised high-altitude airliner design. Early press reports used the name 'Condor III' but the Commando name was in use by early 1942 in company publicity. It was used as a military transport during World War II by the United States Army Air Forces and also the U.S. Navy/Marine Corps, which used the designation R5C. The C-46 served in a similar role to its Douglas-built counterpart, the C-47 Skytrain, but it was not as extensively produced as the latter.

After World War II, a few surplus C-46 aircraft were briefly used in their originally designated role as passenger airliners, but the glut of surplus C-47s dominated the marketplace and the C-46 was soon relegated to primarily cargo duty. The type continued in U. S. Air Force service in a secondary role until 1968. The C-46 continues in operation as a rugged cargo transport for Arctic and remote locations with its service life extended into the 21st century.

The prototype for what would become the C-46, the Curtiss CW-20, was designed in 1937 by George A. Page Jr., the chief aircraft designer at Curtiss-Wright. The CW-20 was a private venture intended to compete with the four-engined Douglas DC-4 and Boeing Stratoliner by the introduction of a new standard in pressurized airliners. The CW-20 had a patented fuselage conventionally referred to as a "figure-eight" (or "double-bubble") which enabled it to better withstand the pressure differential at high altitudes. This was done by having the sides of the fuselage creased at the level of the floor that not only separated the two portions but shared in the stress of each, rather than just supporting itself. The main spar of the wing could pass through the bottom section which was mainly intended for cargo without intruding on the passenger upper compartment. A decision to utilize a twin-engine design instead of a four-engine configuration was considered viable if sufficiently powerful engines were available, allowing for lower operating costs and a less complex structure.

Engineering work involved a three-year commitment from the company and incorporated an extensive amount of wind tunnel testing at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech). The resultant design was a large but aerodynamically "sleek" airliner, incorporating the cockpit in a streamlined glazed "dome". The engines featured a unique nacelle tunnel cowl where air was ducted in and expelled through the bottom of the cowl, reducing turbulent airflow and induced drag across the upper wing surface. After a mockup was constructed in 1938, Curtiss-Wright exhibited the innovative project as a display in the 1939 New York World's Fair. The company approached many airlines in order to obtain their requirements for an advanced airliner. No firm orders resulted, although 25 letters of intent were received, sufficient to begin production. The design of a 24–34 passenger airliner proceeded to prototype stage as the CW-20 at the St. Louis, Missouri facility with the initial configuration featuring twin vertical tail surfaces. Powered by two 1,700 hp (1,300 kW) R-2600-C14-BA2 Wright Twin Cyclones, the prototype, registered NX-19436 flew for the first time on 26 March 1940 with test pilot Edmund T. "Eddie" Allen at the controls. After testing, modifications were instituted, including the fitting of a large single tail to improve stability at low speeds.

The first prototype was purchased by the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) to serve as a master for the series and was designated C-55. After military evaluation, the sole example was returned to Curtiss-Wright and subsequently re-sold to the British Overseas Airways Corporation (BOAC).[8] During testing, General Henry H. "Hap" Arnold became interested in the potential of the airliner as a military cargo transport and on 13 September 1940, ordered 46 modified CW-20As as the C-46-CU Commando; the last 21 aircraft in this order were delivered as Model CW-20Bs, called C-46A-1-CU. None of the C-46s purchased by the U.S. military were pressurized and the first 30 delivered to the AAF were sent back to the factory for 53 immediate modifications.


The design was then modified to the C-46A configuration, receiving enlarged cargo doors, a strengthened load floor and a convertible cabin that speeded changes in carrying freight and troops. The C-46 was introduced to the public at a ceremony in May 1942, attended by its designer, George A. Page Jr.

A total of 200 C-46As in two initial batches were ordered in 1940, although only two were actually delivered by December 7, 1941.
At this time, one other important change was made; more powerful 2,000 hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engines replaced the two Wright Twin Cyclones. By November 1943, 721 modifications had been made to production models, although many were minor, such as fuel system changes and fewer cabin windows were also adopted. Subsequent military contracts for the C-46A extended the production run to 1,454 examples, 40 of which were destined for the U.S. Marine Corps, to be designated R5C-1. The military model was fitted with double cargo doors, a strengthened floor and a hydraulically operated cargo handling winch; 40 folding seats were the sole passenger accommodation for what was essentially a cargo hauler. Tests indicated that the production C-46 was capable of carrying a substantial payload, and it could fly well on one engine. When empty, the aircraft could even climb on one engine at 200–300 ft per minute.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Not the C-46. Here's another clue, offered not just as a reward for participation but in the hope that I'll get Christmas off.


1. Derived from a civilian plane.

2. Its appearance differed enough from its civilian ancestor that one could tell at a glance which was which.

3. The civilian plane from which this plane was descended has generally been regarded as unsuccessful, although its performance had some very good aspects.

4. The prototype first flew in the 1950s.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

Al; if you don't post anything on Christmas day, I doubt anyone will mind or fail to understand. Unless, of course, you find it necessary to retire from the festivities for a few minutes of solace before the modern version of the one eyed monster. Or am I the only one old enough to remember when the television was referred to as such? Thanks; Ernie P.

Merry Christmas to all. And no pop up quizzes about the fastest flying object ever recorded! Tnx; EP

Hydro Junkie

Damn, that sounds suspiciously like the Nimrod. It was a bust as a civilian airliner because of a design flaw involving the windows and fuselage structure around them that caused the plane to basically explode in flight due to it's pressurized cabin. With the Nimrod, ALL of the cabin windows were removed, eliminating the weak point

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

True, true; although with so few clues, we're both still perusing our personal memory databases. Merry Christmas, Sir; Ernie P.

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Personal memory bases are fine. But it isn't the Nimrod. Good guess, though! New clue tomorrow and Merry Christmas everyone.

JohnnyS

Lockheed P-3 Orion?

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

It is indeed the Orion, derived from the Lockheed Electra, which got a bad rep after two fatal crashes, though once the problems that caused those were fixed it was an excellent plane. The most notable difference in appearance between the Orion and the Electra was the presence of a long tail stinger, containing a magnetometer, on the Orion. Both in their histories of being variations of airliners with fatal design defects and their use as patrol planes, the Orion and the Nimrod are very similar. So you were really close, Hydro Junkie! The P-3 is still being used in Afghanistan, and possibly other places, though it is scheduled to be replaced by the P-8.

Wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_P-3_Orion

You're up, JohnnyS.

JohnnyS

And Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!

OK, here's one. I'll start with three clues:

1. It was designed as a major redesign of a very popular aircraft, to use resources that were available and to make a version of the aircraft that was almost 100mph faster than the original.
2. Four engines.
3. Fewer than 100 built.

Ernie P.

My Feedback: (3)

How about the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy; developed from the earlier C-141 Starlifter? Thanks; Ernie P.


Answer: C-5 Galaxy

The Lockheed C-5 Galaxy is a large military transport aircraft originally designed and built by Lockheed, and now maintained and upgraded by its successor, Lockheed Martin. It provides the United States Air Force (USAF) with a heavy intercontinental-range strategic airlift capability, one that can carry outsize and oversize loads, including all air-certifiable cargo. The Galaxy has many similarities to its smaller Lockheed C-141 Starlifter predecessor, and the later Boeing C-17 Globemaster III. The C-5 is among the largest military aircraft in the world.

The C-5 Galaxy's development was complicated, including significant cost overruns, and Lockheed suffered significant financial difficulties. Shortly after entering service, cracks in the wings of many aircraft were discovered and the C-5 fleet was restricted in capability until corrective work was completed. The C-5M Super Galaxy is an upgraded version with new engines and modernized avionics designed to extend its service life beyond 2040.

The USAF has operated the C-5 since 1969. In that time, the airlifter supported US military operations in all major conflicts including Vietnam, Iraq, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, as well as allied support, such as Israel during the Yom Kippur War and operations in the Gulf War. The Galaxy has also been used to distribute humanitarian aid and disaster relief, and supported the US Space Shuttle program.

Hydro Junkie

E3-A Sentry
Better still, the B-50