This thread is also listed in the beginners section, so if you've read it, skip this one.

I'm saddened to report that my favorite LHS went "toes up" .

It is my belief that he was the victim of mail order and internet commerce syndrome. This is a serious malady whereas the hobbyist is so enamored with the convenience and the allure of tax free shopping that he totally neglects the LHS and no longer continues to support that LHS fiscally. That LHS finally succumbs to the economic pressure when the bills aren't getting paid and he's two months behind on the rent. Uh-oh.

Next thing you know, he's having a going out of business sale. And that's when all the vultures converge and get great deals on stuff because this guy's forced to close his doors. The thing that really infuriates me is they'll shake the proprietors hand and say how sorry they are to see him forced out of business as they're handing him two twenty dollar bills for an engine with a retail value of $129. [:@]

My point is this people. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL HOBBY SHOP! That guy that owns the joint didn't do it to get rich. (Have you EVER seen a rich hobby shop owner?! I haven't.)He did it for the same reasons you and I fly. It was a dream of his, a passion, he was an enthusiast that just wanted to take it to the next level. His main reasons for opening a hobby shop were to share and encourage those same dreams and passions with others, to promote this wonderful hobby. And, hopefully, to support himself and family as well. God bless him for trying.

Don't want to pay retail? Don't! Every Hobby shop I do business with will match mail order prices. I've got one now that beats mail order by 10%! (Saves me the tax doesn't it?) Don't be afraid to ask either. That proprietor knows that: 1.) You work hard for your $$$. and 2.) You can buy it cheaper on-line. He doesn't want to see you buy it from Horizon or Tower or any of the others. He wants/needs your $$$ to support his business/family. And when you don't support him, it's inevitable that he'll go "toes up" before too long as well. Then when you bust a motor mount in your plane or need a couple of props, where you gonna go? Now you get to wait four or five days and pay astronomical shipping charges for your twenty dollar order. Think about it.

I'll get off my soap-box now. If you've read this far, thanks for letting me vent. If you agree/disagree with the contents, add a reply so we can keep this thread on the first page!

Like it or not, that is the way that things are going. The family grocery, drug store filling station, farm, garage, hardware and almost all family endeavors are gone and so the family hobby store as well will go.

I drive 100 miles one way to my hobby store and pay more than if I bought over the web or by mail. But they have supported my needs and helped me out for a long, long time. I also live in the boondocks. But I know eventually they will probably be gone as well.

Although I mostly agree with your thread...

My house is WAY cleaner than the LHS near me. I don't like driving 20 miles to find something unless I need it badly. The LHS is a pigstye, and I've often wondered if they were all like this. They put up prices that are marked up insanely high, and the guy behind the counter has a stick up his lower region.
I get less grief and disease from shopping from my computer chair.

Granted, the LHS owners that support the hobby deserve support back, but some LHS's are just in it for the money. They dont care about customer service, they dont care about having full inventory, they ignore you as you walk around looking hopelessly for that one part you need.
My opinion these are the ones that deserve to go under.

I order mail order exclusively for the simple fact I hate to pay sales tax. I already pay in enough income, property tax, social security, medicare, and sales tax on other retail purchases.

Why give any more to the re-distribution of wealth scheme than you have to.

Besides - most of the hobby shops I have seen have crap hardware and crap kits - nothing I am interested in.

Then don't get me started on the punk behind the counter.

Taxman

With the wide diversity involved in R/C nowadays it would be very expensive to have all the items on hand to accommodate customers nowadays.
Cars, airplanes, boats, big, small, electric, gas, glow. It takes a lot of money to cater to the R/C enthusiast.

The bottom line is SERVICE! Did he provide this as well or just sat behind the counter and complained about the mail order shops? Did he carry unique items and products, often invented by local modelers or just buy from the three large distributors?

Ma and Pop stores are thriving in America, the only difference is that the ones that are making money are first; finding a nitch product that the large retailers won't handle, two; marketing that product, and three, giving full ATTENTION to everyone who walks into the store. These proprietors say Hi, how are you doing and then strike up conversation that leads to helping you solve your dilema. I go to a third generation family owned art store that has this type of business philosophy.
I for one much rather buy local, I get it NOW, I can inspect it and not have to pay return shipping, and I don't know about others, but I much rather sales tax of .20 on a bottle of glue than $8.99 shipping and handling.
I go into a lot of hobby stores just to find A: They are poorly stocked and B: the people behind the counter are old timers who are smug and are too busy talking to the local coffee drinkers to give a pigs eye attention to a newcomer like me. Many of these owners may be too worn out to bother with having to redesign their business to cater to a tighter market.

Funny thing is, the only hobby shops that I see going out of business are the ones run by people that have no clue about how to run a business. They start a hobby shop with little or no money and think that they can work M-F 9 to 5 charging high prices and special ordering everything. What really kills me is the hobby shops that expect R/C Clubs to support them but in turn, don't support the club in any way - other than to donate a hobby knife or other stupid 1 dollar items to the yearly club fun fly. Our hobby shop owner sits around and complains about club members not buying from him, but won't even give anyone in the club a discount off list price. Any special order (which is almost everything because he carries very little inventory) takes a week to get - If I order from Tower, I will save money, even after paying shipping and receive the item in 2 days. Our hobby shop would rather lose a sale than sell at less than list price.

Mail order companies like Tower are not killing the hobby shops. The hobby shops are killing themselves by taking advantage of people and not listening to their customers.

Let me clarify something:

The LHS I'm in reference to was neither huge nor a Martha Stewart showcase. The owner couldn't afford to stock alot. Who can? What he did have is difficult to purchase. A friendly demeanor, knowledge and enthusiasm. To the best of my recollection there was nothing stuck in his netherregion.

He helped me through a lot of Newbie-ism and for that I'm grateful. When I first decided to try this hobby/obsession out, I went into a hobby shop where the guy behind the counter told me that all trainers were the same and the one he carried would work just fine as he pulled it off of a shelf and wiped the dust off of it. I asked him about that particular trainer and he said he didn't fly R/C and couldn't help me. He didn't have the correct size engine for it, nor did he have a Tx. Suffice it to say, that was the last time I frequented his store. He had no interest in me as a customer and even less interest in helping me out as a beginner.

Then I found this LHS. I've never been anywhere else until now.

Enough said. Thanks for the opportunity ...

I read a business survey that stated that anyone trying to make a living from an LHS should have a drawing area (population) of at least 250,000. Except for larger cities and towns and their outlying areas there are not many small towns that can meet that criteria. Even then it would be marginal. We had an LHS but it was supplemental to another business so the owner wouldn't starve. He could and did stock very well and could order and split the shipping costs but there was still 8.6% local sales tax. He drove himself out of business when another club popped up in the area and he pushed all newbies that way instead of supporting the club already in existence. The "new club" was anti AMA and anti amost all safety regs.
It collapsed and the existing club inherited the flying site. The LHS owner was universally disliked by both clubs. In the end he finally left town.
I've always dreamed of winning the lottery so I could open an LHS and not have to worry about supporting myself from the business. Odds against, astronomical.

There are two factors that determine a successful hobby shop:

1. Location. You can't open a hobby shop in some podunk town and expect to be successful, unless you go mail order and can offer something unique.
2. The owner's ability to LISTEN. No one person can be an expert on everything, and no shop can afford to stock everything. A good shop owner, IMHO, doesn't necessarily know. They know WHO knows.

Man, I have a great LHS (50 miles one way) and I go there usually once a week on average. He can get anything, be it from the Great Planes hemisphere or the Horizon faction, and pretty much match their prices. I go there to shoot the bull and always end up getting a little of this, a little of that. The owner is great, the help is friendly, always a crowd in the store. He's open to suggestions, will dicker on price, carries stuff I like anyway, will special order anything I want. I haven't placed an order with Tower in 3 years, and only mail order specialty items that he doesn't carry.....but I'm getting him educated on some of those so he'll know what is hot and what is not.

My experience is similar to Chucks only 1/2 hour away. It's in a town of only 10,000, but he's making it (although I don't think he's getting rich). He's donated tons of stuff to our club, matches all the mail order prices ect. He's out once a week or more to train students. I buy everything there.

wow im sorry to hear all these horror stories about LHS's. I on the other hand am lucky enough to have an excellent LHS. 3 in fact! 2 out of the 3 treat me excellent 1 actually goes out of its way for me evrytime. They offer competitve prices and support the local guys all out. They match prices and are like friends as opposed to throwing up the "corporate poker face" when dealing with its clients.

Guess I consider myself lucky to have that in this area. I do mail order to but balance it out between the both

The Hobby store that I drive 100 miles to clean well stocked and has several people that will spend all kinds of time with me telling me how to do things. they have even suggested to me that I get things like rubber bands at the office supply store because they are cheaper. There are several closer than 100 miles the nearest being about 70, but none are as good as the One I go to (Colpars in Aurora, Colorado). When i lived in Aurora there was a shop very near my house that was well stocked, but I went in there and asked them questions a couple of times and got the "if you are so dumb as to not know that" treatment that I will never go in that store and one other that I was treated in a similar manner.

btw, I live in a podunk and happen to like it, my lhs is in a podunk town and does quite well.

I'm glad there are so many people that have a LHS, Try to operate one there is a difference. MAP! SAP STREET PRICES, Then you have over head , Sorry Been There Done That, You do not bend over every time some one comes through the door. It is hard for a small business to stock every thing , mail order and the net don't, they drop ship. Most of the on line stores do not have an inventory. SORRY I give up!!!!!!!!!

Does he get Morris, like your Sledge?

well you know, why don't your local hobby store and my local store adapt to the changing times and start a online store that works in conjunction with their brick and mortar store and sell a lot of the specialty items these other online stores sell, I myself have a hard time finding anything i need for 1/4 scale on up in my local store, and just think your local store and mine can be a internet store too and people across the country can order from them if they get some good products!!!

I have three LHSs and none of them are much help (and I live in the Detroit metro area). Usually the "plane guy" isn't there or the kids manning the shop are nursing some hangover. I end up knowing more than they do due to this forum and buy where I can get the most for the money. I would spend the extra few dollars if they weren't so disinterested in my problem or if they knew what they were talking about. I would and have spent more than I needed to just out of convienence of a local retailer if they were cool to work with.

What I don't like (I'm showing my age) is this haggle mentality that has arisen as of "late." When I was a kid, the price was the price. Now, one is expected to talk the store down. I hate this as I'm unsure about whether I couldn't have gotten a better deal if I had haggled better. Yeah, I know this is insecurity, but I shouldn't have to work that hard. If the damn shop is going to meet catalog or internet prices, then just do it on the price tag so I don't just go to he Catalog dealer. Stop with the dang power plays and do some real business!

Rider's in Taylor, MI, lose the attitude boys. Joe's in Farmington,MI, learn something.
Rider's in Livonia, MI, ya'll so-so.

I am happy to spend a few extra cents or dollars, provided I don't feel like I have to jump through hoops to give someone my money. Know what I mean?

Peace

He gets Morris stuff, I know that's wheren his Rossis come from. I did order my first Sledge direct now that you mention it. The second one I bought off an individual.

Well guys I can tell you this topic is a two way street. I myself have worked in a local hobby store for the past five years And I can say that all of you have a valid point.
I think that some of the larger hobby stores can learn a thing or two from the smaller mom and pop operations. The store I worked in is a franchise of a local hobby store chain.
The owner although a really nice guy had absolutely no hobby experience what so ever.
This same owner even after five years of operation still has not gotten involved in any of the hobbies even though he has a couple r/c airplanes. Instead he spends countless hours in his office working spread sheets and who knows what else. Now i know that this accounting is important but i also know that the guys who come into the shop like the personal service that only and owner can give at times.
I have to wonder does the owner think he is too good to be involved in a hobby that produces income for himself ?
But I do know that some customers do sense this and shy away from this store for that reason.
But I still think it is important to support the local shop but at the same time the shop has to realise you the customer have many other options.

I am fortunate. I have 5 good hobby shops within one hour. One of them just increased in size, but haven't stocked up yet. I hope they stock for Christmas soon. Another charges outrageous prices, the conflict is he is the closest to me. We were suppossed to get a club discount of 10%, but I always seem to buy something not included in that. The third has a great selection, but has prices up near the second. Both of these guys are in strip malls which I understand costs them more in rent. The 1st shop, the owner owns the strip mall, convenient huh.
The fourth and fifth are about an hour away, but they are great. Pricing is fabulous at these places. They will wheel and deal when you drop a couple of hundred bucks at once. They both have a lot of consignment sales, which excite me. I like them because I can get airframes, radio equipment and engines at reduced prices. If they do not work right, I can bring them right back too, except for planes, once you take it you own it. They both stock a lot of ARFs and a few kits. I like kits, but ARFs are more popular. They are both single owner type businesses with a hole in the wall store, but they usually have everything.

And last but not least they give you as much of their attention as they can.

I was in Atlanta, GA the other day and saw a hobby shop closing its doors. It was a great shop and the reason the owner had to is because his manager ripped him off for $400,000.00 in merchandise. The guy was convicted, but the stuff was never found. Poor guy!

Interesting subject. I am opening a hobby shop in about 6 weeks, so of course I say support you LHS, if, that is, they support you!

I recently (2 years ago) had a Wegmans, Wal-Mart and Lowes go up about a mile from my house. About a week ago, I needed some screw anchors to hang a picture shelf in my daughters room. The local hardware store is about the same distance as the Lowes, so I choose the local hardware, knowing I may pay a little more. They are very vocal in making it known that their business has suffered due to Lowes opening. Again, I believe in supporting the little guy. It was Sunday, and the hardware store was closed. How many people do around the house projects on weekends? I would say a lot! I ended up going to Lowes. Same day, wife wanted me to pick up some italian bread on the way home. The local bakery is 2 blocks from my house. Not open! I ended up at Wegmans to buy this. They have a great bakery, and they were there to sell it to me.

I am seeing a bit of a trend in these "Another LHS goes toes up" threads. Bad customer service, poor selection or unwillingness to order in a timely manner, unrealistic hours or not supporting local clubs are all some of the reasons these places are folding. Especially the older ones. They refuse to change. I believe I will succeed (Im banking on it!) for a couple reasons.

1. Knowledge: I know a bit about what I will sell. If I dont know, I wont try to BS you. I will get the answer you need though. There are many resources for information (these bulletin boards for instance)

2. Customer service: Customers are 1st. That doesnt mean that I will give you the store at your request. That means I will do everything I can to make you glad you came into my store. I will try my best to resolve issues. If you have a problem, I will listen.

3. Selection: I will have as much inventory on hand as possible. This is very important. If you can touch, feel and smell the item you want, chances are you will walk out the door with it (hopefully paid for and not hidden under your coat!) I could have started this business with cash, but decided that to keep people coming back; I needed great selection, which required financing.

4. Neat and professional: A clean, well-organized store with colorful displays and a convenient layout is a must. Clean professional employees. Again, I dont know if I would be comfortable getting advice on a $400 truck if the guy looked like a hobo.

5. Employees will understand all of the above: They are the sole connection between my customers and my products.

I guess thats more than a couple reasons. Just my thoughts. I have been "lurking" on this and other bulletin boards for 8 months now, reading posts on customer service, be it good or bad, learning what you people (aka customers) like and dont like.

Wish me luck!!!

I wish you luck !

Don't make your customers haggle on prices. I hate this also.
I really like going to a hobby shop and look around, just wish they had something to look at.[X(]

One thing missing in this area is ... newly released items will never be stocked. It seems that until it's a proven seller, it won't show up on the shelves ... maybe not even then. When is it a proven seller ??? .... after all the mail order places have made a fortune on it. It's hard to get your hands on new products through a local store. Are not new items used to get people "IN" the stores?

As an example ... I'm still waiting for the local shop to stock the Slimline Ultra Fueler ... I even told him about the product. Meanwhile I have purchased several mail-order. Eyeballed and purchased the first one in Toledo last year.

Forget about handling a 9CAP or JR 10X ... they are too expensive to stock.
If I want to see a Multiplex xxx, it will be when I get it from the mail order firm ( or Toledo).
How about that new charger that came out 6 months ago .... nope ![>:]

I think you get my point.


I do have a shop I could go to ... 45 minutes one way through heavy traffic.
By the way .... They do mail order also. SO I E-MAil them my business.


I wish you luck !!!

Ohhhh yeah.......