TRXRUSTLER

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Today I just tested out my new outrigger that I built and I am having some problems with it not coming out of the water. It has a watercooled XL-5 and a Trinty 12t Speedgems extreme motor, and I run it on a 6-cell NIMH. My prop is 31mm not sure of the pitch. So the problem Im having is when Im in the water and give it full throttle it kind of drags in the water instead of skimming across the top. Any help would be very helpful!!!!



Thanks, Chris

tuggernutts

which kit did you use?...... pictures would also help...

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

Pictures

srw1960

Need to see bottom of hull..and better side shot so we can see the angle the outdrive is at in comparison to the tub and sponsons....looks like the boat is built heavy in the close up of the transom looks like alot of glue and hevay paint there..wha t does the hull itself weigh???

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

Its very light, its made from balsa wood and the sides are made from panel board. The heaviest thing in the boat is the 6-cell NIMH. I also have the pitch of the strut set to the positive way so the nose gets up out of the water, but its not working. I wonder if it is adjusted to high so the thrust isn't strong enough. Im not sure, I just got into boats a few weeks ago so please work with me.

Thanks, Chris

785boats

A couple of quick fixes that might help.

1) Change the angle of the prop shaft to be parallel with the bottom of the hull, maybe even slightly down by about one degree.

2) The rear sponsons need to be planed/sanded off so that the front edge meets the hull without that huge step in it.
The rear edge height should be level with the center line of the prop shaft ( after you've levelled the shaft.)

3) The center of balance should be about 1/2" behind the trailing edge of the front sponsons.
Move the batteries around to achieve this.

4) It's best if you can keep all edges of the front & rear sponsons nice & sharp, not rounded off as they seem to be at the moment.
This reduces a lot of drag.

These are just basic starting points & can be fine tuned a bit after you've got it up & running.

With a bit of work I'm sure you can get this little rigger to perform.

Hope this helps a bit.
Paul.

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

my cousin told me to hack off the rear sponsons and see what happens!........ the boat actually gets up and out of the water now!.. still have to mess around with the strut to get it dialed in, but im in the neighborhood.... thanks and i'll post the results .



Thanks, Chris

srw1960

It gets up and out of the water now because you eliminated alot of drag..that step worked like a flat wall trying to go through the water..but you arent going to get enough lift from the back without some sponsons. they need to be mounted on the sides also loose that outdrive to much weight....there are several good threads concerning riggers please go look at them..they will give you an idea what changes you need to make theres a reason that all riggers look alike...I applaud your building this and wanting to make it run ..theres rules that apply to any rigger no matter what it is powered by..we just got to get you informed of those and change the boat a bit and youll have what you want...

Heres a few things that I have learned...you HAVE to have a ride pad under the tub at the very back it provides most of the lift....the stuffing tube should exit out of the ride pad....there has to be sponsons on the sides of the back of the tub otherwise itll trip itself in the turns the wall going through the water thing again...the leading and trailing edges of all the sponsons should be very sharp and the bottom of the sponsons should be flat period..ok go look at the threads and imsure we will talk some more

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

If you don't mind me asking, what is a ride pad?

Simon.O.

I will disagree here. A rear ride pad has some benefits but is not essential.
Neither of my riggers have them. They launch out of the hole perfectly and run very well. For race water a rear ride pad can prevent the tail droping in too deep and causing amp spikes. For sport of in my case solo saw runs they are not needed at all.

My small rigger is 24" overall and my big one is 31"
Both have cleared 55mph.
In all fairness the small one did not appreciate that speed, here is what happened

rebuilder

Im not a "rigger" guy but was just browsing this thread, and to me, the prop angle is way off.................its actually going upwards, isnt it at the wrong angle?

srw1960

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree youve made it work for ya and im glad after all that is the point is to make it work..its just all the realy fast riggers ive seen have ride pads..Ill find out soon for myself as I am building one of the jap riggers that are so popular and fast...TChedoff built one and I think he is getting 70 plus from it with a .18 in it
I plan on experimenting with mine...

And to answer trxrustlers question a ride pad is a piece of wood that extends from under the transom to about 1/2 half way up the tub..the stuffing tube exits out of it at the transom and depending on the size of the rigger there may or maynot be any strut.....Ill post a pic of my spitfire rigger and you can see what Im talking about..also look closley at the prop angle and the height the prop is set at Ihavent tuned it in yet and im getting 35 out of the box with it not to bad..

ryan_t888

I have run several riggers in the past. Some of which had rear ride pads and some that have not. Larger hulls you typically can not get away without using them. Smaller hulls without a rear ride pad will allow a prop with greater pitch and lift resulting in increased top speeds with reduced drag. Many cases it's a personal preference.

Ryan

HOTWATER

You DON'T need rear shoes or a ride pad on your boat! You also need to get rid of your outdrive and add a strut instead. Either a wire drive or flex will work for a shaft (3/16" stubshaft stepped down to 1/8" to run smaller props).

Here are some setup pics of mine...

HOTWATER

Here are a couple more pics showing no rear shoes on my Renegade and my Insanity Riggers...

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

where did you get your strut and rudder?

srw1960

DUDE a plastic prop?????seriously???????im trying to get this guy good advice so he can get some speed out of it....you CAN NOT be seriouse about speed and run a plastic prop..thats for play not for race or speed...they flex to much...all that aluminum hanging on the back adds alot of weight wouldnt it be better to have a small lightweight piece of wood on the bottom with the stuffing tube mounted in it and a small rudder on the back instead of 5 inches of hanging heavy metal??? go read all the threads on here about riggers dont take my word for it look for your self all these people cant be wrong...and I havent said anything they arent going to say.........I have a theorie about why your eelctric rigger runs descent without any rear sponson or ride pad even with all that heavy metal action on back you have save dso much weight with the ellectric motor and battery esc combo it just plain doesnt need as much flotation to get it up..But what would it do If it had just a little extra lift on the back???? you should just play with that and see what happens..your riggers look nice by the way did you build them from plans or a kit??

TRX I picked up a rudder and strut thats perfect for these small electrics from a guy on e bay...joechung I think is the name of his store Ill check and make sure I bought 2 rudders and a strut from him for a 1/2 a powered nitro boat very nice stuff and very resonable as well..also another guy on e bay top secret boats they have realy nice hardware of differant sizes but kind of pricey...Ill go snap a couple pics and post em here for ya...later!!!

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

I didn't use a kit I just followed some other peoples pictures and made my own from them. Thats probably why I am having so much trouble, and also because I know nothing about boats. I just received my Seaking 90A ESC from ebay today, and I am using my Velineon 3500kv motor, with a 3s 25c 3300mah lipo. I haven't ran it yet but is sounds like its fast.

Simon.O.

I have used plastic octura with a lot mixed results. At 40mph they tend to come apart on me. 40krpm does that too.
In fact I have done the same to the Cu/Be octura props too, that is what pushing boundaries in the name of research will do.

The weight of the hardware is not significant as a proportion of the overall hull.

I can see you have the nitro OB Spitfire. How many FE riggers have you setup and run.....fast and consistently ?

I was keen to offer my knowledge here on FE rigger setups, but it would seem that there are plenty of experts here already.

I'll watch.

srw1960

You have done a very good job and with just a little fine tuning itll be a real screamer i promise ya..the fact you are new to rc boats and yet you have tackeled one of the hardest boats to get set up and running right says alot about ya and i say more power to ya[sm=thumbs_up.gif]... here are the pics of the rudder and strut I got off ebay I realy like em the rudder is small but I think itll work fine on your rigger and like I said I am going to use it on a 1/2 a skee vee 10 I am building for my wife... use this strut and rudder and it will solve alot of your problems and then we can see if and how much ride pad and rear sponson you MAY OR MAY NOT need..keep in mind there is another very good reason to having some small sponsons on the side at the back..when the rigger enters a corner what do you do????you slow down right????what does that do to the riger????it settles deeper into the water at the rear follow me so far?? when that happens as the prop goes deeper it wants to slow down due to the increased drag of the water and you loose some of the prop lift that has been holding you up at the back and also you have more hardware in the water as well creating even more drag..well now the rear of the tub is in the water as the rigger begins to spin around the curve.the front is planted pretty good by the turn fin the rigger is starting to feel the effects of g force and it wants to slide the back around a bit..BUT..you have that flat side hanging in the water not much but enough to realy create some drag...this is what TRIPS riggers and flips em on there sides ( thats why the sides of the sponsons are called side trips!) Now then..if you had a small sponson on the sides with a nice angle to the side trips and a perfectly flat bottom to them . they would provide just enough lift to replace what the prop has lost and would allow the water to move under the rigger with much less drag.....just some food for thought...OHHH BTW the strut and rudder combo came with the prop shaft,drive dog,thrust washer.teflon liner,brass stuffing tube and flex shaft.all for like 32 bucks.

Oh and Simon O..I will admit I am new to Electrics thank god im not advising him on engines or batteries or electronics for it... some things with any rc boat applys whether electric or nitro or gas or what ever moves it..I dont coment on ANYTHING I DONT KNOW OR UNDERSTAND PERIOD. if I coment on anything I firmly beleive in what I am saying to be the truth to the best of my knowledge...this is the first ive seen you coment you know so dam!!! much open your mouth and answer the guys questions! mine are just sugestions there are THOUSANDS others out there so dont be scared put your 2 cents in..and we will just have to agree to disagree on the weight thing..my way of thinking any weight you save is more speed for the boat..in full scale auto racing we have a saying..excess weight at the drag strip.....it simply means if it weighs anything it weighs to much dont use it only use what ya have to...Im used to fabricating devices where weight is a very bad thing the lighter is allways the best..thats how I treat everything from my boats to my vette...and I have built many differant boats. vhulls,hydros,tunnells,riggeres,airboats...there are pictures of most of them posted on this sight go take a look.see if you think I know anything about boats..I dont do RTR I own one and thats all I will ever own..a couple are designs of my own one has definatly been run alot andf is a blast and a handfull the other will soon be in the water(its my first FE build ) and we will see yes I will absolutley post video BTW you got any pics posted or videos we can watch???? How many riggers you have in the water???BTW are you realy a firefighter or is that just a pic you found?

Simon.O.

I am done with this thread.
Enjoy. [sm=thumbup.gif]

HOTWATER

I agree Simon...I'm done here too...........

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

could you give me a link to that rudder and strut setup, from ebay I can't find it?

TRXRUSTLER

My Feedback: (7)

I finally got some time to test out my rigger with my brushless setup and it screams. There were a few things that went wrong during the run. I not sure when it happened but when I went to take my boat out of the water and move to a different spot I noticed that the turn fin was missing. I must of hit something when I was going. I also broke my prop today, do you guys thing it was the high RPM that made it explode or does it look like I hit something? Anyway it was a good run, I lost alot of speed once my prop broke, but it was still pretty fast even with one blade. Thanks for all you help so far!!!!, Chris

ryan_t888

If you have prop damage bring the hull in before it causes strut damage due to out of balance. Sounds like power may have busted the prop. Change to a metal one. They are cheap enough if you can follow directions given to balance them.

Ryan