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84" Apache Info

Old 01-16-2015, 11:29 AM
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dr drip
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Default 84" Apache Info

looking for info on the bonzi 84" with twin in-line counter rotating engines...

Last edited by Justaddwata; 01-17-2015 at 04:20 PM.
Old 01-17-2015, 08:53 AM
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That hull is not nearly strong enough for two inline twins.
Old 01-17-2015, 02:02 PM
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Ron Olson
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It's been done but I don't know how it did. I know the guy that used to do a lot of work for Bonzi and he showed me pix of one that he built. If I remember right, the price tag was in the $7,500.00 range RTR.
Old 01-17-2015, 05:31 PM
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Ron, I do not know who owns Bonzi, but in 2000 or 2001 I stopped in on the then company in Indianapolis when I was trying to buy a large hull for myself. They were advertising an 84" hull, but when I was on their premises they had not even built a plug! I came back to Colorado and built my 73" Cigarette scale model plug of the 36' Cig, and had molds made. I only wanted my hull, but Rich from Thunder Pro in NJ asked me to supply him with hulls. I did sell him 20+ hulls over two years, but as with most modeling projects the economics were just not there. I was not doing this in my garage. I still have the molds, and my hull at 18 lbs would easily handle one twin inline, but not two! My hull was built by a professional fiberglass fabricator to my specs which were based on a full sized boat. I have personally built four full sized boats to 35' and a dozen models. I still have my all carbon hull #1 with twin 26cc full mod Zenoahs and MHZ Merc #6 outdrives, but there is no longer a place in Colorado to run it safely even when the ice melts. I retailed the hulls for $750 plus shipping via FedEx, and it still was not worth my time and expense. I remember some people complaining about the price, and just was disgusted with their total lack of understanding on what it took to actually design and manufacture a hull professionally. Lost my interest at that time after Rich died in 2005 trying to supply a product to a market that was just not worth the effort. It is just beyond most hobbyist's understanding as far as the economics are concerned. I do believe that I have digressed into a bit of a rant. Sorry!
Old 01-17-2015, 06:35 PM
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Rant away!
Bob Kensill was the one who was doing a lot of work for Bonzi' although living in Fort Wayne, IN at the time. I had heard a lot about some of the hulls at that time. Poor lay-ups and badly cut at the seams out of the mold.
Old 01-18-2015, 02:33 AM
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dr drip
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Ren3
I was wondering if yoi could send some pics of that boat to [email protected]

Thanks.
Old 01-18-2015, 08:17 AM
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Go to http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/spee...ette-hull.html and you will see a thread on it that I started in 2011. I will be happy to email you additional pictures. Thanks. Bob Newman. [email protected].
Old 01-19-2015, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ren3
Ron, I do not know who owns Bonzi, but in 2000 or 2001 I stopped in on the then company in Indianapolis when I was trying to buy a large hull for myself. They were advertising an 84" hull, but when I was on their premises they had not even built a plug! I came back to Colorado and built my 73" Cigarette scale model plug of the 36' Cig, and had molds made. I only wanted my hull, but Rich from Thunder Pro in NJ asked me to supply him with hulls. I did sell him 20+ hulls over two years, but as with most modeling projects the economics were just not there. I was not doing this in my garage. I still have the molds, and my hull at 18 lbs would easily handle one twin inline, but not two! My hull was built by a professional fiberglass fabricator to my specs which were based on a full sized boat. I have personally built four full sized boats to 35' and a dozen models. I still have my all carbon hull #1 with twin 26cc full mod Zenoahs and MHZ Merc #6 outdrives, but there is no longer a place in Colorado to run it safely even when the ice melts. I retailed the hulls for $750 plus shipping via FedEx, and it still was not worth my time and expense. I remember some people complaining about the price, and just was disgusted with their total lack of understanding on what it took to actually design and manufacture a hull professionally. Lost my interest at that time after Rich died in 2005 trying to supply a product to a market that was just not worth the effort. It is just beyond most hobbyist's understanding as far as the economics are concerned. I do believe that I have digressed into a bit of a rant. Sorry!
Bob - a lot has happened in 14 years or so. There have been plenty (Dozens) of 84" Apaches hitting ponds and a number of them with inlines - some with inline QD70's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z8tahRjMTc From what I have heard they are a real handful with that kind of power - 30HP would be menacing in the best of boats. Rather than flogging a hull that 14 years ago was not in production perhaps you could be open to the fact that they now exist - as do PI 84" apaches and MHZ 83" apaches and similar.

Frankly I imagine an 84" apache being a great boat to power with a pair of inline zenoahs or RCMK's (or any other power you care to name Inline Polinis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ijiTGG3t8w). Personally - I have an 84" apache on the shelf but have yet to decide on what power it will have - I might keep this one simple..... might!!

Here is a link with a handful of pics other people have taken a while back of some 84" apaches with twins - built by some people who know their craft. http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/mo...ics/bigapaches

I have seen a few pictures of the 73" REN hull you have but cannot turn up any video of them in action. Can you share any links to videos etc?
Old 01-20-2015, 09:34 AM
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I also have a set of molds for the 84" Apache,I got these from a friend of mine that I think got them from joe with the big turbine hydro, I have seen some pictures of a boat that was said to have been made out of these molds running nice with a inline at the shootout CRC puts on from a few years ago.I have not built a boat from them yet but they look like they will make a great foundation to work with. The finish on these is ok but will not produce a nice finished gel coat boat it will need to be painted, I do feel with our standard lay up using mat and carbon fiber it would be a strong hull, but for the twins I would do 2 layers of mat and the carbon fiber, The second layer of mat would only be on the bottom of the hull to keep it from twisting.Just up loaded that picture, That is our 72" sea hawk sitting next to it, Man it looks small.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:04 AM
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Nice hull.....I am not able to build anymore, but would like to have one built...do you do that.

Garth
Old 01-20-2015, 08:04 PM
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we do not build RTR's but someone like Ross madina from full throttle racing could pick the hull up from us and build it. without a shipping charge to him. look at our thread here on rcu about expresscraft boat hulls. Ross has a great reputation and does nice work. I would do the 84" hull for 750.00 with carbon fiber. we also have doug from [email protected] that is also local and does fantastic paint work.All I would do is the hull after that is would be between you guys but both of these guys have been doing boats for years.
Old 01-31-2015, 06:13 PM
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who has the old 84' Apache molds from Performance International in Louisiana , Also known as outboard Innovations .i had one years ago .. strong hull
Old 02-01-2015, 04:54 AM
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I do not know really who made the first 84" Apache molds, But I think all of them pretty much are the same boat.Performance international, Is who i think made the first ones,But I can not say for sure.I think I will make a boat out of this set I have and see how it goes.
Old 02-01-2015, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by specialk1
who has the old 84' Apache molds from Performance International in Louisiana , Also known as outboard Innovations .i had one years ago .. strong hull
Eddie Barnes of Offshore Models in Batavia NY was laying up 84's for the thief at Performance International/Blackhawk Hobbies for a time. I purchased the molds Eddie had almost 10 years ago. Not sure how many hulls Eddie pulled from them but I have yet to pull one.
Old 02-01-2015, 08:46 AM
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I was doing some internet search last night and I came across a company called mountain hobbies that claims they own the molds from performance international aka Blackhawk hobbies don't know how true that is
Old 02-01-2015, 08:49 AM
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and you're absolutely correct that guy at performance international was a PCC ripped off a lot of friends of mine for that gas outboard that he was supposedly making it never delivered but took all their deposit money and never returned it I know he got sued a couple times , I know a guy named John in Louisiana recently purchased all the tooling from him for those outboards and a guy named Mike bought the molds for that ginormous tunnel hull
Old 02-01-2015, 12:28 PM
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I do not disagree about the guy being a crook, but I do believe performance international had a 84" Apache back in the late 80's early 90's. I think most people that get into making models are just hobbyist that get in over there head. I think most guys have good intentions when they start selling something they made for a hobby and now a few guys want them. fiber glassing boats is a cool subject matter, But in the end its still fiber glassing. We have had a lot of people copy our boats and most make a few for friends and then the molds sit or disappear. I think if any one decides to make a living fiber glassing they should get use to the fact that they will earn every penny.
Old 02-01-2015, 02:37 PM
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True enough Tom. I worked a time for a full size catamaran manufacturer and they too had to earn every dime.

Steve Rabito however was a thief and a liar through and through. I have been after him for seven years on behalf of a guy in Turkey who sent him several thousand for a boat that was never made. Through that time Rabito has made all kinds of promises (and excuses) but every one was a lie. He is one who gives the industry a bad name and has well earned his reputation for being a liar and thief.
Old 02-01-2015, 05:44 PM
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Did performance international have a 55" or so fountain hull? 2003-2004 I wrecked my enforcer and paid for a hull. Never got it but finally got my money back. Never got back into gas boats after that.
Old 02-02-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JaredW
Did performance international have a 55" or so fountain hull? 2003-2004 I wrecked my enforcer and paid for a hull. Never got it but finally got my money back. Never got back into gas boats after that.
Believe it is a 57" PI Fountain. I have one on the rack. Been a long time since I have tinkered with it.
Old 02-02-2015, 08:42 AM
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PI also had a 73 inch cigarette Top Gun it's the only one I've ever seen that looked like a real cigarette Top Gun . I see them pop up on ebay every once in a blue moon look like to get my hands on one of those . I think the 84 Apache is a nice looking boat but honestly way too large, I think 70 or 73 inches is a nice happy medium for any large scale boat
Old 02-02-2015, 04:30 PM
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dr drip
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I had bought 3 boats from PI back in the day...a 54, 65, and 72...had a bit of trouble getting them, but did arrive.

I never bought anything again from him.

Guess the 84" is out of the question....

Hows the outdrive situation now...who's making good ones now?
Old 02-02-2015, 08:56 PM
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Mhz has the best I think there is also arrowshark that has a Merc m8 drive have not seen one in person there seems to be a few out there but not alot of feedback on how they preform I do have 3 of the mhz drives and are works of art
Old 02-03-2015, 04:22 AM
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have to agree the MHz is probably the best out there the arrow shark is a piece of junk overpriced for what it is
Old 02-03-2015, 04:49 AM
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Do you still have the molds for the 84" Apache you mentioned? I have a set here that look pretty good but The hatch mold needs work.It would be much easier to lay up a real heavy part out of a good mold to use as a plug for making another good mold then I could send yours back.Shipping would probably not be to bad on just a hatch mold.The condition of my hatch mold is the main reason I have not made a boat from the molds I have.I could probably build these boats for 750.00 made with carbon fiber like the rest of our boats. It would be kind of cool to see if these big boats would take off with today"s motors (k600) and the hulls being well built at a fair price.

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