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Zenoag Mods?

Old 12-13-2007, 11:35 PM
  #26  
ken0276
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

I think might be the water density is different in two ponds.
Old 12-13-2007, 11:38 PM
  #27  
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ORIGINAL: ken0276

I think might be the water density is different in two ponds.
LOL...thats classic...
Old 12-14-2007, 04:28 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

happy xmas
Old 12-14-2007, 07:59 AM
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DaveMarles
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

ORIGINAL: radioactiver/c

7hp claims are about a full hp than the best US builders and more than QD.
You slam the US builder who hold the world record and QD in one shot, nice shooting Tex.
The dyno run was made back to back with another 260 from top engine builder, both made just about 5.8 hp
Back to back test take the question of dyno type out of the equasion.

The US engine builders hold the record, and make about 6 hp, how is it that only one guy can make nearly a one hp more and no one else seems to be able to do it?
If the top engine builders in the US can't get 7, then it can't be done. Go to IMPBA and NAMBA and look at the record book for yourself.
Wake up and smell the coffee guys. I don't want to be rude but there is a world outside of the USA. World records in the USA are USA records. Get real. I'm not saying anything against the USA or the people there, I have spent a lot of time in the US and love the place but realism is lacking in these forums sometimes.
Do you see me on here or other forums pushing my engines or products? No, and thats because these are discussion forums not as it seems they've become a forum to shoot people down. Who says a non US tuned Zenoah can't make more power than the US builders can? What rubbish. What FACTS do you base that on. None. You want me to come on and slam others engines? Well you check all the forums, I never do that (actually I complained about the JG I had but I've got to correct that). Quite frankly the so called independent test (joke joke) was a disgrace. An engine that I sent to a customer who was pleased with it and told us that it performed but as soon as his engine guru found out about it the customer bad mouthed it. It probably wasnt even my cylinder on that engine, I don't believe a word of what was spoken at that time because it was all based on the fact that that engine could not possibly be better than theirs. If I want an engine testing then I'll send an engine to be tested. I don't need to do that because I can sell more engines than I care to modify. I expect we'll get the call for an engine dyno shootout. Well thats good, send all your engines to me. [8D]
If you think a Zenoah can't make 7 bhp then think again. I havent looked at all the USA modded engines but I can tell you that the so called top engine just will not cut it over here and thats a fact even when its been sent back to the USA for more mods to try to make it competitive. Will my motor make more power than a QD? The answer is it shouldnt beat a GOOD modded high revving QD but it will eat most QD HT if my experience is anything to go on. Should a QD beat my motor, of course it should.
Look at my record in International racing, I couldnt achieve what I've achieved without having top performing engines in every type of motor I've used. I don't copy, I do my own thing, I've designed and developed and sold stainless steel watercooled quiet pipes for 30 years and they've been used by many of the top racers around the world, not because they look good but because they perform, same goes for my engines and the same for my boat designs. I race epoxy vacuumed carbon kevlar boats because they are light and strong, I race engines modded by me with my own tuned pipes with my own hardware including my own props so don't tell me I don't know how to make an engine perform. If anybody wants to discuss the technical aspects of time areas, blowdown issues, trapped compression ratio and MSV then go ahead but don't bother telling me how you tinkered with the transfer ports and got another 100 rpm on the dyno. 15 minutes work by someone using a good time area program will show pretty quick what the deficiencies and limitations are on most engines, Zenoah, QD or JG.

I've got more to say on this later but I've got a lot of engines, boats and hardware to get out the door today.


Old 12-14-2007, 08:15 AM
  #30  
DaveMarles
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

Yee Haw, Did I really say all that ? [8D]
Old 12-14-2007, 08:22 AM
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

[sm=49_49.gif] ...lol....

some interesting reading there Dave .
Old 12-14-2007, 08:34 AM
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?


ORIGINAL: DaveMarles

Yee Haw, Did I really say all that ? [8D]
YES well said Dave i especially liked the bit about the world records
Old 12-14-2007, 12:03 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

Hey Guys

Think we can get back to my original resaon for this thread. I'd like some more info on the mods!
Old 12-14-2007, 01:02 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

Nice reply Dave all I can say I run your Zen on a voodoo prop and a bonzi pipe in the panther hull and its the fastest boat I've had (I've had bonzi and Sikks in cats and Monos) that engine sure does chuck out some revs and power.
Old 12-14-2007, 01:36 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

I never mentioned Dave, I warned about being careful of the bleating coming from the guys making claims. Daves cheerleaders come in brag about 7 hp like they know something about engines every time theres an engine discussion.
The original comment wasn't directed at Dave or his engines, but at the groupies who know nothing about mods.

Heres an opportunity for Dave to show his talent and answer the question in the first post.


World records in the USA are USA records.
Not true, IMPBA is an international organization.
Old 12-14-2007, 01:52 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

ORIGINAL: fuelman8

Hey Guys

Think we can get back to my original resaon for this thread. I'd like some more info on the mods!
Fuelman...when you start a thread like this,be prepared for some blow-by....[:-],all the arguements pertains to your thread....In other words you HAVE to break a few eggs to make an omelete.If we can ALL remain civil,you'll be able to extrapulate your answer's out of this discussion.It's a no-brainer what the most common mods are should you do a little research on your own.....ie:jug,piston,carb,porting...etc. Maybe someone will chime in and put it in a nutshell for you...[:-] maybe....???
Old 12-14-2007, 02:00 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

ORIGINAL: ken0276

martno1fan, I have 4 mod 260s, Zen7 is best for the speed within those 260s, by the way, Thanks for the replying for its specs.
Ken who modded the other 3 zens care to name some names ?On second thoughts better do it in pm we dont want to upset any frail egos do we.
Old 12-14-2007, 02:09 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?


ORIGINAL: radioactiver/c

The zen 7 from the UK makes a true SAE corrected 7hp...
that engine was dynoed by an independent and it was no where near 7 hp.There is only so much you can get from a zen and the top engine guys in the US are getting all that can be wrung out of a zen.
That statement alone proves how biased you are !! you asume only Americans can mod engines? what do you base that on ?world records between what countrys? America and who else? .
Old 12-14-2007, 02:27 PM
  #39  
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ORIGINAL: radioactiver/c

I never mentioned Dave, I warned about being careful of the bleating coming from the guys making claims. Daves cheerleaders come in brag about 7 hp like they know something about engines every time theres an engine discussion.
The original comment wasn't directed at Dave or his engines, but at the groupies who know nothing about mods.

Heres an opportunity for Dave to show his talent and answer the question in the first post.


World records in the USA are USA records.
Not true, IMPBA is an international organization.
Actually what you said was " Go to IMPBA and NAMBA and look at the record book for yourself." My point is that IMPBA and NAMBA record books mean nothing in this context because why would I or others over here in Europe be running in those organisations which are not World wide organisations. They are North American organisations. Most people wouldnt consider the USA, Canada and Puerto Rico as the World. The world model boat organisation is Naviga. Some USA drivers compete at the Naviga World Champs such as Andy Brown and Al Hobbs and there are more than 26 other countries that compete at those World Championship events. Just setting the record straight.( no pun intended) I've got nothing bad to say about the records or the record holders and never have.

You also said "If the top engine builders in the US can't get 7, then it can't be done" I don't need to comment further on statements like that, I have said enough already.
I have nothing to say about other UK forum members who quote figures on my engines, its a free world last time I looked. Plenty of mention is made of other tuners engines and I don't usually see them being attacked but if I am getting slated as I have in this thread by people who do not know me and know nothing about me or my engines then I will retalliate.
Old 12-14-2007, 03:08 PM
  #40  
Zac Price
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

I need one of those dynos [8D]
Old 12-14-2007, 04:53 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?


ORIGINAL: DaveMarles


ORIGINAL: radioactiver/c

I never mentioned Dave, I warned about being careful of the bleating coming from the guys making claims. Daves cheerleaders come in brag about 7 hp like they know something about engines every time theres an engine discussion.
The original comment wasn't directed at Dave or his engines, but at the groupies who know nothing about mods.

Heres an opportunity for Dave to show his talent and answer the question in the first post.


World records in the USA are USA records.
Not true, IMPBA is an international organization.
Actually what you said was " Go to IMPBA and NAMBA and look at the record book for yourself." My point is that IMPBA and NAMBA record books mean nothing in this context because why would I or others over here in Europe be running in those organisations which are not World wide organisations.

dunno... why would you? Do you know who Joerg Mrkwitschka is... you know, Team JAG. NAMBA T-hydro electric 1/16 SAW record holder.... surely doesnt live in the US!






Heres what i wanna know... do you have a money back garuntee on your 7hp motor if it does not perform?
















































didnt think so.
Old 12-14-2007, 04:56 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

btw the I in IMPBA is International

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/international

in·ter·na·tion·al

1. between or among nations; involving two or more nations: international trade.
2. of or pertaining to two or more nations or their citizens: a matter of international concern.
3. pertaining to the relations between nations: international law.
4. having members or activities in several nations: an international organization.
5. transcending national boundaries or viewpoints: an international benefit; an international reputation.
–noun 6. (initial capital letter) any of several international socialist or communist organizations formed in the 19th and 20th centuries. Compare First International, Second International, Third International, Fourth International, Labor and Socialist International.
7. (sometimes initial capital letter) a labor union having locals in two or more countries.
8. an organization, enterprise, or group, esp. a major business concern, having branches, dealings, or members in several countries.
9. an employee, esp. an executive, assigned to work in a foreign country or countries by a business or organization that has branches or dealings in several countries
Old 12-14-2007, 05:28 PM
  #43  
DaveMarles
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?


ORIGINAL: Believe It

btw the I in IMPBA is International

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/international

in·ter·na·tion·al

1. between or among nations; involving two or more nations: international trade.
2. of or pertaining to two or more nations or their citizens: a matter of international concern.
3. pertaining to the relations between nations: international law.
4. having members or activities in several nations: an international organization.
5. transcending national boundaries or viewpoints: an international benefit; an international reputation.
–noun 6. (initial capital letter) any of several international socialist or communist organizations formed in the 19th and 20th centuries. Compare First International, Second International, Third International, Fourth International, Labor and Socialist International.
7. (sometimes initial capital letter) a labor union having locals in two or more countries.
8. an organization, enterprise, or group, esp. a major business concern, having branches, dealings, or members in several countries.
9. an employee, esp. an executive, assigned to work in a foreign country or countries by a business or organization that has branches or dealings in several countries
Thanks for the information but I know perfectly that the I in IMPBA stands for International. Read my previous post.
I stand behind all of the products that I sell.
I'm just defending myself against unjustified and uninformed criticism. I don't know what your problem is.
Old 12-14-2007, 05:51 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

ORIGINAL: DaveMarles
I'm just defending myself against unjustified and uninformed criticism. I don't know what your problem is.

so because im stating the definition of International, i have a problem?


I have no problem at all... am just sitting here laughing mostly. Im no 2 stroke engine builder, but someone that i know and respect and has ALOT of knowledge on 2-strokes says that a stock zenoah jug does not have the meat and transfer area to make the power, then i agree with him. If im a "hater" because of this, or if im a "hater" and "bashing you" because i agree your numbers are false, then so be it... you can think what you want, i am not gonna lose any sleep over it.




and i read your last post...

Actually what you said was " Go to IMPBA and NAMBA and look at the record book for yourself." My point is that IMPBA and NAMBA record books mean nothing in this context because why would I or others over here in Europe be running in those organisations which are not World wide organisations. They are North American organisations
they may be North American based organizations, but we still have boaters coming from across the big pond to set records. Must be some reason why.







so if you stand behind your products, if i bought a "Zen7" from you, put it in my boat propped the way you want, running the pipe and length you want (and you cant have a "SET" pipe length, because you have no idea what elevation im running at, nor what the air conditions are like...so what works best for you most likely isnt gonna work best for me in my given conditions) and it does not run as good as my QD (another 7hp motor) you would refund my money?
Old 12-14-2007, 07:03 PM
  #45  
glennb2006
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

You, and a couple of others seem to be getting quite upset about all of this Believe It.

Not sure why. At the end of the day, we are not talking of anything here with any real importance, they are only model boats, and if you are racing them, then, as is always the case, the best compromise package wins the day, every day. By which I mean: Best driver, most suitable engine / boat set up / propellor for the prevailing conditions.

Dave Marles is a well respected boat racer and engine modifier, and has an enviable track record of many years to back it all up. This is an International reputation. I feel he has in his posts been quite reserved in his own defence.

I take some personal offence to certain comments along the way in this thread, specifically this one from radioactiver/c: "If the top engine builders in the US can't get 7, then it can't be done."

Can you understand how this can be seen as offensive?

I ask this question of radioactiver/c: What makes you think that the maximum power engine has to come from the USA? There are good engineers all over the world.

And before anyone chimes in, I am not anti American, all I would point out is that you try to remember that this is a global forum.

I really do not understand how this has become such an emotive posting, but it has.

The answer, I think, to fuelman 8, who initiated this thread, is that there are lots of good data books on the subject of two stroke tuning. Gordon Jenings has some good points to make, as does Tony Jarvis, it is always going to be a compromise, and that is what you should be aware of when embarking on the tuning an engine adventure. Also, there is the risk that some of the mods you make might make the engine unusable for what you need.


It might be more economically viable to look to a modified motor from a reputable builder near to where you are who will offer advice and recommendations for your application.

Hope everyone has a happy Christmas, all the best,

Glenn
Old 12-14-2007, 07:18 PM
  #46  
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ORIGINAL: glennb2006

You, and a couple of others seem to be getting quite upset about all of this Believe It.

im not getting upset about anything. What i have been doing is stating fact and opinion. I am my own person... i am allowed to do this, or do i have to have permission from Dave, and his supports to have my own opinions about his motor?


It seems nobody here is getting upset other then the UK group because some of us americans do not believe Dave's numbers. But hey, Dave doesnt believe respected engine builders and tuners really did what they say i guess because well... they are americans and showed numbers that didnt match advertisements. I guess since Chuck also dyno'd a motor that was mine, i should not believe a word he said about what it made because they were not as high as i wanted them to be
Old 12-14-2007, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

I can Build a 12hp Zen!!!! Light'n Up!!!
Thats just a joke so nobody get upset!
Old 12-14-2007, 08:07 PM
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radioactiver/c
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

I ask this question of radioactiver/c: What makes you think that the maximum power engine has to come from the USA? There are good engineers all over the world.

Because there are several people working very hard to stay on top of the heap in the SAW records all the time.
There are more Zenoah engine modifiers in the US than anywhere else.
Using Zenoahs in RC boats started in the US, the tuners here have more experience than anywhere else.
All the top speed record in gas boats are held by the US engine tuners.

Anyone is welcome to come here and try to break the speed records. Speed records add credibility to hp claims.

The way people are reacting to this, its as if I said there was no such thing as Santa Claus.
We all know there is a Santa Claus.
Old 12-14-2007, 08:22 PM
  #49  
ken0276
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ORIGINAL: martno1fan

ORIGINAL: ken0276

martno1fan, I have 4 mod 260s, Zen7 is best for the speed within those 260s, by the way, Thanks for the replying for its specs.
Ken who modded the other 3 zens care to name some names ?On second thoughts better do it in pm we dont want to upset any frail egos do we.
Ok, I ran many engine in my past a couple years, some are gone and some are still alive, my first engine was Homelite 30 then 2 old Hanson/QD 3 and 4 bearing 25cc, BTB 260, CC racing/QD 25, CC racing/Hanson Hornet HB 260, 2 RedLine 260, EZ4 260 and Zen7, for those engines that I have been ran on my Cats, personally, I prefer Zen7 engine for the speed and performance.
Old 12-14-2007, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Zenoag Mods?

ORIGINAL: ken0276


ORIGINAL: martno1fan

ORIGINAL: ken0276

martno1fan, I have 4 mod 260s, Zen7 is best for the speed within those 260s, by the way, Thanks for the replying for its specs.
Ken who modded the other 3 zens care to name some names ?On second thoughts better do it in pm we dont want to upset any frail egos do we.
Ok, I ran many engine in my past a couple years, some are gone and some are still alive, my first engine was Homelite 30 then 2 old Hanson/QD 3 and 4 bearing 25cc, BTB 260, CC racing/QD 25, CC racing/Hanson Hornet HB 260, 2 RedLine 260, EZ4 260 and Zen7, for those engines that I have been ran on my Cats, personally, I prefer Zen7 engine for the speed and performance.
so enlighten us... what speed and rpm with the Zen7

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