Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
03-22-2007, 12:22 AM
#277
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Interference is only possible with gas/spark plug iginitions. Not with glow.
for Gas, I insist on metal resisitive "bosche" type plug boots for gas engines. Rubber boots on a CDI ignition can cause interference within 4 feet of a receiver (without a twinsync installed).
If you have glow engines run the sensor wires however you want. With gas it is a whole different game. But with gas if you pick up ignition noise due to a faulty ignition it will almost always stay in the twinsync (throtle glitches only) no glitches on control surfaces. I have only seen glitched twice and neither time was the twinsyn or sensor wires the issue and it only affected throttles. But dont wrap the sensor wire arround the spark plug wire please.
Bill
for Gas, I insist on metal resisitive "bosche" type plug boots for gas engines. Rubber boots on a CDI ignition can cause interference within 4 feet of a receiver (without a twinsync installed).
If you have glow engines run the sensor wires however you want. With gas it is a whole different game. But with gas if you pick up ignition noise due to a faulty ignition it will almost always stay in the twinsync (throtle glitches only) no glitches on control surfaces. I have only seen glitched twice and neither time was the twinsyn or sensor wires the issue and it only affected throttles. But dont wrap the sensor wire arround the spark plug wire please.
Bill
03-22-2007, 07:20 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
I fly gasser's...Gasser's never have a linear relationship between carb throttle arm position and rpm's. On a gasser you typically get about 75~80% of your rpm's from idle to about half of the throttle arm position, and the remaining rpm's to 100%.
In other words at 50% (mechanical) arm position you can have 80% of your total rpm's.
For this reason many of us use expo on the throttle channel to compensate and to attempt to have half rpm's at half throttle...
How will this affect the operation of your unit, or will it? I guess my concern would be your loop response and how the expo may affect that.
In other words at 50% (mechanical) arm position you can have 80% of your total rpm's.
For this reason many of us use expo on the throttle channel to compensate and to attempt to have half rpm's at half throttle...
How will this affect the operation of your unit, or will it? I guess my concern would be your loop response and how the expo may affect that.
03-22-2007, 08:53 AM
#279
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Yes, I would never wrap anything around the igtion wire or anything like that. I use ZDZ's and thier igntion system seems to be quite shielded. I'm more concerned from a standpoint from the fact there is a pulse (hall switching on and off) going through the line to the twin sync and running right past the reciever.
03-22-2007, 12:14 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
As for interference from the pulse of the sensor - no issue frequency is too low (20K rpm = 333 hz).
As for the expo on throttle device - yes it works fine with gas, walbro carbs, and expo... Yes they drove me crazy for 2-3 months and resulted in a complete rewrite in the initial control algorithms (new algorithm that fixed the sensitivity of the walbro carb was added in FW version 1.4.X starting last fall).
I also recomend putting the throttle arm a little off center to add some mechanical expo. The Twinsync has about .5 deg rotational accuracy of a servo. So just compute how many RPM change 0.5 degree servo movement makes in your engine and you will know how tight the device can get the sync.
I have some guys on G38s and G45s getting <50 rpm difference. (using like +/- 140 end points with some mechanical expo below half throttle).
Bill
As for the expo on throttle device - yes it works fine with gas, walbro carbs, and expo... Yes they drove me crazy for 2-3 months and resulted in a complete rewrite in the initial control algorithms (new algorithm that fixed the sensitivity of the walbro carb was added in FW version 1.4.X starting last fall).
I also recomend putting the throttle arm a little off center to add some mechanical expo. The Twinsync has about .5 deg rotational accuracy of a servo. So just compute how many RPM change 0.5 degree servo movement makes in your engine and you will know how tight the device can get the sync.
I have some guys on G38s and G45s getting <50 rpm difference. (using like +/- 140 end points with some mechanical expo below half throttle).
Bill
03-28-2007, 09:25 AM
#281
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Bill,
A friend and I are at a disagreement on one of the twin sync functions, hopefully you can clear it up. The issue is with the Independant run up mode.
1) He thinks that the 3 postion switch needs to be set up as a dual rate for the engines. So that when the switch is low, it gives only -100 to -50 rate, when in the middle is will give a rate of -40 to +40 and when high it gives a rate of +50 to +100. He is thinking strictly as a dual rate switch. Meaning if it where on an elevator, it would give about 5 deg throw on low, then 50 deg throw on middle and full deflection on high rate.
2) I see it as an actual channel, as any other channel. So if it were on an elevator, switch down would be down elevator, switch middle would be neutral elveator and switch up would be up elevator.
Which is the correct understanding of the way the independant run up mode is to work?
If I'm correct, then I have another question. I have a 14MZ, so with that radio I can assign any postion of the switch to do as I wish. The question becomes this, I would like to have the engines running together while the switch is either in the full up, or full down postion (to easy to bump a switch in flight and get the independant mode at the wrong time) How does the sync recognize the switch postion? does it see, on=down, on=middle, off=high, or some sort of variation on this?
I know this may be a little confusing, but any help to clafiry this situation would be helpful.
P.S.
I will be at Toledo asking questions, I'm sure. Hope to see you there.
A friend and I are at a disagreement on one of the twin sync functions, hopefully you can clear it up. The issue is with the Independant run up mode.
1) He thinks that the 3 postion switch needs to be set up as a dual rate for the engines. So that when the switch is low, it gives only -100 to -50 rate, when in the middle is will give a rate of -40 to +40 and when high it gives a rate of +50 to +100. He is thinking strictly as a dual rate switch. Meaning if it where on an elevator, it would give about 5 deg throw on low, then 50 deg throw on middle and full deflection on high rate.
2) I see it as an actual channel, as any other channel. So if it were on an elevator, switch down would be down elevator, switch middle would be neutral elveator and switch up would be up elevator.
Which is the correct understanding of the way the independant run up mode is to work?
If I'm correct, then I have another question. I have a 14MZ, so with that radio I can assign any postion of the switch to do as I wish. The question becomes this, I would like to have the engines running together while the switch is either in the full up, or full down postion (to easy to bump a switch in flight and get the independant mode at the wrong time) How does the sync recognize the switch postion? does it see, on=down, on=middle, off=high, or some sort of variation on this?
I know this may be a little confusing, but any help to clafiry this situation would be helpful.
P.S.
I will be at Toledo asking questions, I'm sure. Hope to see you there.
03-28-2007, 11:01 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
rhotdog,
The corret answer is #2. If the switch were connected to elevator servo down=down middle=middle up=up. What the sync sees in independant run up mode is down = idle engine1 and stick controls engine2. Up=idle engine2 and stick controls engine1. Middle=engines are synced together and stick controls both.
I don't understand what you are asking for. down = engines synced together. up=engines synced together. What do you want middle equal to?
The corret answer is #2. If the switch were connected to elevator servo down=down middle=middle up=up. What the sync sees in independant run up mode is down = idle engine1 and stick controls engine2. Up=idle engine2 and stick controls engine1. Middle=engines are synced together and stick controls both.
I don't understand what you are asking for. down = engines synced together. up=engines synced together. What do you want middle equal to?
03-28-2007, 11:39 AM
#283
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
First off, thanks for saying I was right. 
As for the switch issue. I would like to have switch down=idle 1, switch middle=idle 2, switch up=sync on. In the 14MZ, I can assign the positions I want for the switches, within the TX, but am not sure if the sync will react to the TX programming. it's not really an issue, just a preferance. If you're not sure, no prob, I'll just see what it does when I fire the babies up.
As for the switch issue. I would like to have switch down=idle 1, switch middle=idle 2, switch up=sync on. In the 14MZ, I can assign the positions I want for the switches, within the TX, but am not sure if the sync will react to the TX programming. it's not really an issue, just a preferance. If you're not sure, no prob, I'll just see what it does when I fire the babies up.
03-28-2007, 12:48 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
ON my 9C I can define offset mixes to assign channel positions to different switch positions. I am sure you could make the switch do the following:
down = 0%
middle = 100%
up = 50%
with the 14MZ and then it would do like you are asking for.
down = 0%
middle = 100%
up = 50%
with the 14MZ and then it would do like you are asking for.
04-03-2007, 01:55 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Just as an update for those that have Backorders for TwinSyncs. They shipped from me to RCShowcase today. Should be there Wed or Thursday.
04-03-2007, 05:41 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
ORIGINAL: Pilot44
This is how I installed magnets in my setup. They are 1/8"dia. and about 1/4" long. These are RCV91CD thrust washer/bearing for my KMP B25, will not be using spinner so had to go this route. Works great. As the washer has a machined opening around the circumference of the bearing, it lends itself nicely to this installation. The sensor picks up the magnets up to 1/4" from the outer circumference of the bearing so there is room to work with. And there is no problem with the prospect of losing a magnet at high RPM due to centrifugul force should the bonding agent fail, which would not be good. No way this magnet gets out of there.
You just need to orient the magnets for the correct polarity as the magnetic field is generated from the sides of these magnets rather than the ends. Test with the sensors for correct alignment before gluing in. The magnets are available from Bill Wike whom I forgot to mention initially, he has posted his email address just 2 posts after this post.
Used JB weld to keep in place, balanced the thrust washers/bearing by removing a small amount of material via 1/8" bit next to the magnet.
Jim
This is how I installed magnets in my setup. They are 1/8"dia. and about 1/4" long. These are RCV91CD thrust washer/bearing for my KMP B25, will not be using spinner so had to go this route. Works great. As the washer has a machined opening around the circumference of the bearing, it lends itself nicely to this installation. The sensor picks up the magnets up to 1/4" from the outer circumference of the bearing so there is room to work with. And there is no problem with the prospect of losing a magnet at high RPM due to centrifugul force should the bonding agent fail, which would not be good. No way this magnet gets out of there.
You just need to orient the magnets for the correct polarity as the magnetic field is generated from the sides of these magnets rather than the ends. Test with the sensors for correct alignment before gluing in. The magnets are available from Bill Wike whom I forgot to mention initially, he has posted his email address just 2 posts after this post.
Used JB weld to keep in place, balanced the thrust washers/bearing by removing a small amount of material via 1/8" bit next to the magnet.
Jim
Where did get those type of magnets! the one I have are flat disc shape.
roltech
04-03-2007, 05:58 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
ORIGINAL: roltech
Where did get those type of magnets! the one I have are flat disc shape.
roltech
ORIGINAL: Pilot44
This is how I installed magnets in my setup. They are 1/8"dia. and about 1/4" long. These are RCV91CD thrust washer/bearing for my KMP B25, will not be using spinner so had to go this route. Works great. As the washer has a machined opening around the circumference of the bearing, it lends itself nicely to this installation. The sensor picks up the magnets up to 1/4" from the outer circumference of the bearing so there is room to work with. And there is no problem with the prospect of losing a magnet at high RPM due to centrifugul force should the bonding agent fail, which would not be good. No way this magnet gets out of there.
You just need to orient the magnets for the correct polarity as the magnetic field is generated from the sides of these magnets rather than the ends. Test with the sensors for correct alignment before gluing in. The magnets are available from Bill Wike whom I forgot to mention initially, he has posted his email address just 2 posts after this post.
Used JB weld to keep in place, balanced the thrust washers/bearing by removing a small amount of material via 1/8" bit next to the magnet.
Jim
This is how I installed magnets in my setup. They are 1/8"dia. and about 1/4" long. These are RCV91CD thrust washer/bearing for my KMP B25, will not be using spinner so had to go this route. Works great. As the washer has a machined opening around the circumference of the bearing, it lends itself nicely to this installation. The sensor picks up the magnets up to 1/4" from the outer circumference of the bearing so there is room to work with. And there is no problem with the prospect of losing a magnet at high RPM due to centrifugul force should the bonding agent fail, which would not be good. No way this magnet gets out of there.
You just need to orient the magnets for the correct polarity as the magnetic field is generated from the sides of these magnets rather than the ends. Test with the sensors for correct alignment before gluing in. The magnets are available from Bill Wike whom I forgot to mention initially, he has posted his email address just 2 posts after this post.
Used JB weld to keep in place, balanced the thrust washers/bearing by removing a small amount of material via 1/8" bit next to the magnet.
Jim
Where did get those type of magnets! the one I have are flat disc shape.
roltech
If you read throught this thread, you would find not to far back his email... Just shoot him an email. He will take care of you.
Jim
04-03-2007, 11:28 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
(Get in touch with Bill, the guy who makes this stuff. He has the magnets. yl5295
If you read throught this thread, you would find not to far back his email... Just shoot him an email. He will take care of you.)
Thanks Jim I will! I have to send the boards back to Bill to add the extra updates and will ask him to send me some of those magnets, I also will be using RCV.91CD motors.
roltech
If you read throught this thread, you would find not to far back his email... Just shoot him an email. He will take care of you.)
Thanks Jim I will! I have to send the boards back to Bill to add the extra updates and will ask him to send me some of those magnets, I also will be using RCV.91CD motors.
roltech
04-04-2007, 06:59 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Roltech,
When did you buy your TwinSync and what version is it. If you bought it this year it should be upto date?
When did you buy your TwinSync and what version is it. If you bought it this year it should be upto date?
04-04-2007, 07:07 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
NEW FEATURE
Guys... I have a new feature available by special request now. It is a special mode for the Cessna 337. Since this is a push pull rather than a traditional (left - right) twin I have come up with a special mode for this airplane on the TwinSync. Here is how it works:
Never idles an engine even if one quits (similar to mode 6 but enabled all of the time).
Does not sync engines above 90% throttle (just gives engines full power)
The reason that it doesn't sync the engines at full power is because of the push pull arrangement one engine will always be capable of turning more RPM than the other. Therefore sync'ing them at full power robs you of peak thrust. To make them sync just pull the stick back a couple of clicks and they fall into sync.
All other modes are still there (independant run up mode, aux ch defeat, etc). The above two features are turned on all of the time in all modes. So only ask for this version if you have a push-pull setup. This mode is only available direct from me by sending in your IC (or board) and requesting it.
Guys... I have a new feature available by special request now. It is a special mode for the Cessna 337. Since this is a push pull rather than a traditional (left - right) twin I have come up with a special mode for this airplane on the TwinSync. Here is how it works:
Never idles an engine even if one quits (similar to mode 6 but enabled all of the time).
Does not sync engines above 90% throttle (just gives engines full power)
The reason that it doesn't sync the engines at full power is because of the push pull arrangement one engine will always be capable of turning more RPM than the other. Therefore sync'ing them at full power robs you of peak thrust. To make them sync just pull the stick back a couple of clicks and they fall into sync.
All other modes are still there (independant run up mode, aux ch defeat, etc). The above two features are turned on all of the time in all modes. So only ask for this version if you have a push-pull setup. This mode is only available direct from me by sending in your IC (or board) and requesting it.
04-04-2007, 07:35 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Here's a question that I thought I'd pose....I don't know if this's been asked before (the thread is long).
What is the action/response in the following situation?
One engine is operating normally, the other overheats, drops dramatically in rpm, but does not quit running....
This is a common mode of failure..
What is the action/response in the following situation?
One engine is operating normally, the other overheats, drops dramatically in rpm, but does not quit running....
This is a common mode of failure..
04-04-2007, 09:21 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Hi, Branded
We had this ... very interesting ... discussion some pages before.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...9/key_/tm.htm# from post # 217
I see it had given something interesting ...
Thanks to you one more time Bill ...
Alain
We had this ... very interesting ... discussion some pages before.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...9/key_/tm.htm# from post # 217
I see it had given something interesting ...
Thanks to you one more time Bill ...
Alain
04-04-2007, 10:34 AM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
Thanks, but I'm not sure my answer is there...You guys were discussing a push/pull configuration and I'd like to know the action/response in the conventional setup.....
"Reduction in global power", means what? If it's going to reduce the rpm's of the good engine, then by how much, and how quickly?
Or is it simply going to "hunt" at someplace within the capture range of the loop?
"Reduction in global power", means what? If it's going to reduce the rpm's of the good engine, then by how much, and how quickly?
Or is it simply going to "hunt" at someplace within the capture range of the loop?
04-04-2007, 01:34 PM
#296
RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
I was looking at the twin sync for my new KMP OV10 and I was wondering if anyone has tried to mount the magnet to the rear crank? I'm using the Fuji 24cc where the crank extends out back of the case. Somebody alot smarter than me has probably already done this but I could not find it in this thread. Thanks, Jerry.
04-04-2007, 03:28 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
I have a couple of customers that put a plastic disk on the rear extension of the crankshaft on Zenoah G38 and G45s. They then mount the magnet in this disk. It definitely helps reduce the spark noise that can get into the sensor wires. In general though I recomend only using metal shielded spark plug caps (like the Bosch). I have had engines that could cause receiver interference 5' away from any of the radio gear.
04-04-2007, 05:06 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
ORIGINAL: yl5295
Roltech,
When did you buy your TwinSync and what version is it. If you bought it this year it should be upto date?
Roltech,
When did you buy your TwinSync and what version is it. If you bought it this year it should be upto date?
The date on the postage stamp Aug. 07 2006. I don't know what version it is.
I bought 2 units. I will send only one soon to update w/tach and onboard glow driver.
roltech
04-04-2007, 08:57 PM
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RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
If you have not had an update since Aug 7,2006 then you need one. Send them both in. Lot's of improvements since then...
Bill
Bill
