ASM P-61 kit Build
10-27-2009, 11:33 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
cdbtx
I am running OS52 four strokes on mine and it is defenatly not over powered. I don,t think I have enough engine to turn four blade props. They may look good for display, but I wouldn't try to fly with them.
Ron
I am running OS52 four strokes on mine and it is defenatly not over powered. I don,t think I have enough engine to turn four blade props. They may look good for display, but I wouldn't try to fly with them.
Ron
11-07-2009, 09:13 PM
#352
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
It seems to me the kicker with the scale struts is the large diameter of the strut where it will go into the retract unit. I'm measuring 5/16"(?) and my Rhom airs will not have enough metal in the unit after I drill it out. What tricks if any are you guys doing short of buying the factory retract units to make the struts work as retracts?
11-07-2009, 10:36 PM
#353
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
The "factory" retracts and struts have an 8MM shaft and bore.This is a nominal value though as the tollerance is not very tight.
I messed around for quite a while trying to find a match or other struts and retracts that would work. I finally just bought the ASM set. There is probably better, cheaper, whatever, but these will work, even though the quaility control isn't all the great. After spending several hours searching, I decided that any money saved would come at a high cost of time spent, and even then I wasn't sure it was going to result in a better fit.
Don
I messed around for quite a while trying to find a match or other struts and retracts that would work. I finally just bought the ASM set. There is probably better, cheaper, whatever, but these will work, even though the quaility control isn't all the great. After spending several hours searching, I decided that any money saved would come at a high cost of time spent, and even then I wasn't sure it was going to result in a better fit.
Don
11-08-2009, 12:38 AM
#354
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
Thanks for the input. Must be lame having to do your flying near the central coast line but I guess somebody's got to do it. I have looked into moving up there in the future.
11-08-2009, 01:07 AM
#355
Senior Member
RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
Stop on by some weekend or even during the week. You need to be a morning person as it tend to get breezy around 10am or so most days. We would be happy to have you visit.
http://sloflyers.com/
There are directions to the field and other info on the site.
Don
http://sloflyers.com/
There are directions to the field and other info on the site.
Don
11-08-2009, 12:00 PM
#356
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
Chuck,
I hope your not looking for me? I'll be converting mine when I get back from Sea (US Navy). I should be working it in December hope to fly it before Feb 2010. I think it was you that replyed over at RCG in the glow to eletric forum. Have you started your conversion yet. If you like please post how and were you at with this convertion in RCG.
Thanks
Mike
I hope your not looking for me? I'll be converting mine when I get back from Sea (US Navy). I should be working it in December hope to fly it before Feb 2010. I think it was you that replyed over at RCG in the glow to eletric forum. Have you started your conversion yet. If you like please post how and were you at with this convertion in RCG.
Thanks
Mike
11-11-2009, 07:08 PM
#357
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
I actually finished the plane - After all my research and calc's Idecided to go with a smaller motor.. I was orginally thinking about using dual E-flite power 60's but looking at the total motor weight, battery weight,and RPM's - I'll do better with the Power 46's with dual 60 amp ESC's... Also using an 8amp BEC for with a 3000ma 2s battery for the radio/servos.
Took it to a show at the Boeing Museum of Flight this weekend thinking that it would be the only P-61 there.... as I was walking out to pick up the plane I saw a guy carring a large black wing in.. asked him if that was off of a P-61... and of course it was.... a Ziroli scratch built... 103" wingspan.. an absolute work of art... kind of burst my bubble..... but I did place mine behind his... for the show..
Anyway.. next stretch of nice weather and I'll take it out for the maiden... I haven't weighed it yet.. but it's much lighter than my Cessna 421.. so the power 46's should work fine...
Chuck
Took it to a show at the Boeing Museum of Flight this weekend thinking that it would be the only P-61 there.... as I was walking out to pick up the plane I saw a guy carring a large black wing in.. asked him if that was off of a P-61... and of course it was.... a Ziroli scratch built... 103" wingspan.. an absolute work of art... kind of burst my bubble..... but I did place mine behind his... for the show..
Anyway.. next stretch of nice weather and I'll take it out for the maiden... I haven't weighed it yet.. but it's much lighter than my Cessna 421.. so the power 46's should work fine...
Chuck
11-13-2009, 02:16 PM
#358
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
ORIGINAL: Black Drape
cdbtx
I am running OS52 four strokes on mine and it is defenatly not over powered. I don,t think I have enough engine to turn four blade props. They may look good for display, but I wouldn't try to fly with them.
Ron
cdbtx
I am running OS52 four strokes on mine and it is defenatly not over powered. I don,t think I have enough engine to turn four blade props. They may look good for display, but I wouldn't try to fly with them.
Ron
Don
11-13-2009, 03:11 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
Don
If it was me, I would fly it first with two blade props. See how much power you have, and what kind of RPMs you are getting. The 70s sure won't hurt anything. I think that the four blade props are going to have to be pretty small for your engines to turn them. They may not be very efficient. About the only thing you can do is try them and see. I crashed an A26 I built trying to fly it the first time with three blade props, it stalled and snapped on take off. Be carrefull, try the two blades first. It is a good flying model, you will enjoy it.
Ron
If it was me, I would fly it first with two blade props. See how much power you have, and what kind of RPMs you are getting. The 70s sure won't hurt anything. I think that the four blade props are going to have to be pretty small for your engines to turn them. They may not be very efficient. About the only thing you can do is try them and see. I crashed an A26 I built trying to fly it the first time with three blade props, it stalled and snapped on take off. Be carrefull, try the two blades first. It is a good flying model, you will enjoy it.
Ron
11-15-2009, 09:10 PM
#361
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
"""My wife is going to react."""
Ahh, is that good news or should I worry????
In either case, look forward to seeing you out here some day. Our "regulars" days are Monday and Thursday. Those are the reitrred regulars. Saturdays and Sunday generally have some activity also. It just depends on the weather and how guys schedules are going.. Give me a call, my number is on the web site, and let me know when you might be in the area and I'll try my best to greet you.
Don Rogers
Ahh, is that good news or should I worry????
In either case, look forward to seeing you out here some day. Our "regulars" days are Monday and Thursday. Those are the reitrred regulars. Saturdays and Sunday generally have some activity also. It just depends on the weather and how guys schedules are going.. Give me a call, my number is on the web site, and let me know when you might be in the area and I'll try my best to greet you.
Don Rogers
11-16-2009, 08:32 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
When we can, we make a run for Morro Bay, just a great area to hang out. I enjoy the quiet break, but my wife would stress over the plane thing, just a little. I have been modeling since the early 1960's so she has always seen me with ca glue stuck to my fingers, balsa dust on my shirt, and the sweet aroma of spent fuel on my shirts from the field so I make it a point to contain the hobby to the garage and not all throughout the house so she doesn't feel too threatened.
01-22-2010, 09:36 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
I am in need of a single retract mechanism. Not the strut, just the mechanism with the cylindar. One of mine stripped out and I need to replace it, but I don't want to spend over $300 for a new set just to get one. If anyone has one from perhaps a downed craft, please PM me.
Thanks.
Thanks.
01-23-2010, 01:32 AM
#365
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
What stripped out? Can' t it be repaired? If you don't have the tools or inclination to try to repair it, I'll take a shot at it for you.
Don
Don
01-24-2010, 02:26 AM
#366
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
As a result of Miklos post, I was checking out my retracts and it looks as if they are going to need some rework. None of the three will set flat on their monting surfaces. A couple are off by at least 3/32" corner to corner. It inatilly looks like thetwo threded cross rods. the ones the flat head screwsscrew into are at fault, but until I can get some exact measurements, I'm notreally sure. The pivot rodand spacers as wellas the tail end pivot forthe air cylinder may comeinto play, so there are four pointsthat determine the straighness of the sides. The set screw that locks the strut in is off center by at least 15 to 20 thousands. There was no indication of any attempt to clean up the sharp edges and the burs from milling the slots, cross drilled and tapped holes etc.. There is a 2mm taper from the pivot end of the air cylinder to the other end of the retracts.For the price of these, I would have expected better quality.
I'll take some precise measurements and take some photos over the next couple days. I could hear the ply snapping and cracking as the retracts were tightened into place with their twist..These were not CNC manufactured, but it looks like acombination of shear cut,band saw, filing, and somedisk sanding with some milling machine thrown infor grins.$300++ kind of leads one to expect a bit more. Its nowonder that thereis so much trouble in theLG doors, with the actuation hardware beingso out of whack,there is no common starting point to set up the doorlinkage.
I haven't started the build of the kit yet. I'm sure hopping the wood work is better than the metal work.
Don
I'll take some precise measurements and take some photos over the next couple days. I could hear the ply snapping and cracking as the retracts were tightened into place with their twist..These were not CNC manufactured, but it looks like acombination of shear cut,band saw, filing, and somedisk sanding with some milling machine thrown infor grins.$300++ kind of leads one to expect a bit more. Its nowonder that thereis so much trouble in theLG doors, with the actuation hardware beingso out of whack,there is no common starting point to set up the doorlinkage.
I haven't started the build of the kit yet. I'm sure hopping the wood work is better than the metal work.
Don
01-24-2010, 03:34 AM
#367
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
I am enjoying my ASM Tigercat but was surprised to see the main pivot pin of all three retract units loose and almost ready to fall out of position.
The only thing holding it was the gear rail it was mounted on. I got a center punch and dimpled the end and tapped it home. Hopefully it will stay in position now.
Brad
The only thing holding it was the gear rail it was mounted on. I got a center punch and dimpled the end and tapped it home. Hopefully it will stay in position now.
Brad
01-24-2010, 03:56 PM
#368
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
The pivot pin on these is held in place with a setscrew.
Idismantled one of the retracts. The quality of the air cylinder looks good. Ican extend the piston and then plug the port on the shaft end. Pushing the piston to full travel, and then releasing it, it returns to the fully extended position. If I repeat this several times without opening the port, it still returns to fully extended. That indicates a good seal. The piston moves with minimum force and is smooth.
Now for the rest of the story. The angle sides were punched to shape. Even the slot that the air cylinder t pin rides in was punched. As a result, the long sides have a bit of a twist in them.The side and bottom are not square either. If I put them on a surface plate and hold the mounting lugs flat. there is a gap at the top and it is a uneven gap. If Itry to put the cylinder mounting pin in place, I can’t get it through both holes. If I put the pin in place and then set them down next to each other, the pin is several degrees from level with the feet bottom, maybe as much as 5 to 7 degrees off. When Ilay the pin across the activation slots, they are also not of an even height from the base, about the same degreeof difference as the pivot pin holes. Iam unable to line up all four holes though the side, the Cylinder pivot, the block pivot, and the two holes for the screwsthat hold the two sides to the spacers. The only way things bolt together and youcan move the mechanism is that the tolerances are wide open.
The center block is another piece of high school shop class quality work. Although it appears to have spent a few minutes in a tumbler,there is no other evidence that any of the edges or holes were debured. The slots for the air cylinder bushings have the finish of a band saw cut. The shape looks as if it was cut on a band saw and then what could be reached with a belt sander, was sanded to remove some of the roughness. The holes for the pivot pin and the three setscrews still have the layout scribe marks in the aluminum. Of course, the holes are not centered on the hole for the strut.
I took the nose wheel retract out and found that it was really stiff compared to the first retract. Then I found that the four screws were a little loose, and I tighten them and now I can hardly get it to move. On a closer inspection, I see that the spacers that the screws screw into have washers on both end of them. The firstset didn't have them. I just pulled out the other main and like the nose, the screws were not tight and it is almost impossible to move the gear with them tight.The spacers don’t have washers on the ends of them either..
At this poinit, if Hobby People will refund my money, they are going back. Ican't see a replacement set being any better.
Don
PS, any recomendations for robart or other retracts vs these.
Idismantled one of the retracts. The quality of the air cylinder looks good. Ican extend the piston and then plug the port on the shaft end. Pushing the piston to full travel, and then releasing it, it returns to the fully extended position. If I repeat this several times without opening the port, it still returns to fully extended. That indicates a good seal. The piston moves with minimum force and is smooth.
Now for the rest of the story. The angle sides were punched to shape. Even the slot that the air cylinder t pin rides in was punched. As a result, the long sides have a bit of a twist in them.The side and bottom are not square either. If I put them on a surface plate and hold the mounting lugs flat. there is a gap at the top and it is a uneven gap. If Itry to put the cylinder mounting pin in place, I can’t get it through both holes. If I put the pin in place and then set them down next to each other, the pin is several degrees from level with the feet bottom, maybe as much as 5 to 7 degrees off. When Ilay the pin across the activation slots, they are also not of an even height from the base, about the same degreeof difference as the pivot pin holes. Iam unable to line up all four holes though the side, the Cylinder pivot, the block pivot, and the two holes for the screwsthat hold the two sides to the spacers. The only way things bolt together and youcan move the mechanism is that the tolerances are wide open.
The center block is another piece of high school shop class quality work. Although it appears to have spent a few minutes in a tumbler,there is no other evidence that any of the edges or holes were debured. The slots for the air cylinder bushings have the finish of a band saw cut. The shape looks as if it was cut on a band saw and then what could be reached with a belt sander, was sanded to remove some of the roughness. The holes for the pivot pin and the three setscrews still have the layout scribe marks in the aluminum. Of course, the holes are not centered on the hole for the strut.
I took the nose wheel retract out and found that it was really stiff compared to the first retract. Then I found that the four screws were a little loose, and I tighten them and now I can hardly get it to move. On a closer inspection, I see that the spacers that the screws screw into have washers on both end of them. The firstset didn't have them. I just pulled out the other main and like the nose, the screws were not tight and it is almost impossible to move the gear with them tight.The spacers don’t have washers on the ends of them either..
At this poinit, if Hobby People will refund my money, they are going back. Ican't see a replacement set being any better.
Don
PS, any recomendations for robart or other retracts vs these.
01-30-2010, 05:32 PM
#369
Senior Member
RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
A follow up on the retracts. New side rails would solve most if not all of the issues with them. I took some photos and after a talk with Hobby People support, and then an Email with the photos and explanations of what I found. The next day, yeasterday, I received an email from Global Hobbies telling me to return the retracts and they would replace them after inspecting their stock and making sure it was up to snuff. Can't ask much more that that.
They should have the retracts Monday, and as they are just down the coast from me, I should have a replacement set mid to late next week, provided that their stock isn't like mine were.
The retracts would not be dificult to build seeing that I have a CNC mill. The issue would be the air cylinder. I found asource that looks like a good replacement. If Global strikes out finding a good set, that is the routeI'll go. I'll keepyou posted.
Don
They should have the retracts Monday, and as they are just down the coast from me, I should have a replacement set mid to late next week, provided that their stock isn't like mine were.
The retracts would not be dificult to build seeing that I have a CNC mill. The issue would be the air cylinder. I found asource that looks like a good replacement. If Global strikes out finding a good set, that is the routeI'll go. I'll keepyou posted.
Don
02-02-2010, 10:15 PM
#370
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
Folow up again. I got a call from Global yeasterday and they stated that the checked their stock and while some were better than the set I had, none would set on the table flat. So they refunded my purchase. Great service, and really quick quick turn around.
Now, i'm looking a other options for retracts again. I've decided that I don't want a spring down after I saw one of our guys haveing trouble with his. He had a bind at the very top of the retract, and because the gear didn't retract fully, it would not spring down. His issue was just with one side.
I've got the sturts, but again I'm not finding any retracts that are compatable with them.Iknow that some of you have used other strut and retract sets other than the ASMones. Any suggestions?
Miklos, how did you make out with your stripped screw issue??
Don
Now, i'm looking a other options for retracts again. I've decided that I don't want a spring down after I saw one of our guys haveing trouble with his. He had a bind at the very top of the retract, and because the gear didn't retract fully, it would not spring down. His issue was just with one side.
I've got the sturts, but again I'm not finding any retracts that are compatable with them.Iknow that some of you have used other strut and retract sets other than the ASMones. Any suggestions?
Miklos, how did you make out with your stripped screw issue??
Don
02-03-2010, 01:00 AM
#371
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
I am thinking about grinding the struts down to 5/32" and use some Rhom Airs I used on pattern stuff awhile back. Am not going to shell out 3 bills for what you're going through.
02-03-2010, 07:25 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
I gave the retract with the stipped screw hole to a buddy of mine who is going to drill out the hole and retap it for a larger size screw. He will also drill out the hole for the strut to accept the new larger size strut.
Today I broke down and bought a table top drill press at Lowes for $108. Many times in this hobby, I had wished I had one so I just broke down and got one. Before I bought the drill press, I drill out the other main retract to accept the larger strut by usning a hand drill, and the hole ended up slightly crooked so that the strut when extended is a little cocked to one side. Had I done it on the drill press, that wouldn't have happened.[:@]
Today I broke down and bought a table top drill press at Lowes for $108. Many times in this hobby, I had wished I had one so I just broke down and got one. Before I bought the drill press, I drill out the other main retract to accept the larger strut by usning a hand drill, and the hole ended up slightly crooked so that the strut when extended is a little cocked to one side. Had I done it on the drill press, that wouldn't have happened.[:@]
03-13-2010, 06:01 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
Hi Miklos, I have a P-61 also. Just setting up the gear doors now. What a pain!! You are located very close to me,do you ever fly @ WINDING BROOK RC? Does your club have a paved runway?Anyway I"m trying to get this thing ready so I can at least start breaking the engines in.
03-14-2010, 01:06 PM
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RE: ASM P-61 kit Build
No, I've never flown at Windingbrook, but I have been there once or twice. Some of the Senior members are also members of and are on the board of directors of the club I belong to, the East Coast Swampflyers. Check out our website at www.swampflyers.org
We have a field in Northford off Rt 22 behind the Honeywell plant. I would love to get together with you some time and fly our P-61s in tandem. We don't have a paved runway, but a nice large grass field. Looking forward to seeing your P-61. I opted to leave the gear doors off on mine since they were such a PITA. It doesn't seem to hinder the profile in flight and with a pair of magnum 52 two strokes, the P-61 really screams. I had some engine problems last year, but hopefully I've got them ironed out this year.
Planing on taking the P-61 to Warbirds over Delaware this year along with a H9 150 size P-51 I'm building now.
Good luck with your P-61.
P.S. I see from your posts you also have one of the new Aerodyne twin Beechcrafts on the way.
I have a Top Flite Cessna 310 with a pair of OS 46s that flies great and looks great. Would love to fly tandem with your Beechraft someday. Would be a heck of a show at one of our club events.
We have a field in Northford off Rt 22 behind the Honeywell plant. I would love to get together with you some time and fly our P-61s in tandem. We don't have a paved runway, but a nice large grass field. Looking forward to seeing your P-61. I opted to leave the gear doors off on mine since they were such a PITA. It doesn't seem to hinder the profile in flight and with a pair of magnum 52 two strokes, the P-61 really screams. I had some engine problems last year, but hopefully I've got them ironed out this year.
Planing on taking the P-61 to Warbirds over Delaware this year along with a H9 150 size P-51 I'm building now.
Good luck with your P-61.
P.S. I see from your posts you also have one of the new Aerodyne twin Beechcrafts on the way.
I have a Top Flite Cessna 310 with a pair of OS 46s that flies great and looks great. Would love to fly tandem with your Beechraft someday. Would be a heck of a show at one of our club events.