Has anyone here build the twin beech craft D18 for the ziroli plans? What was your impression and any subjection?

DP:

Haven't heard about anyone building a Beech 18 for a long time.

The Ziroli designs, though, generally fly very well for scale planes. They all seem to have an automatic device that induces a spin on loss of an engine. But as I remember, the D-18 is not as bad as many.

Point being, get a better flying twin to learn on while you build the Beech.

Bill.

PS: The Twin-Air 45 www.ne-aero.com is a good one. wr.

I have not built or flown one, but it is on my to-do list (after I finish the P38), would like to hear comments also.

i have a friend that built one and flyes it on two zanoa 38 regualy at our club .flyes realy nice.

Contact Gene Barton ([email protected]) he has one done like the plane in the movie It's a Mad Mad Mad World. Flies very nice on two old webra bully's converted to glow fuel.

It is a nice twin and a much more simple kit to build than a P-38. William is correct about the spin, but it is really only serious if you have an engine out on take off or landing.

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com

I've built, owned and flown both the Ziroli D-18 and the C-47, both are great fliers, and Never had either one spin on an engine out, even when I stalled the C-47 towing a scale waco glider. The D-18 has an advantage in that the rudders are in line with the engine blast, which makes it easier to steer on take off, but it scares the heck out of you when you keep adding weight to the nose, and it seems like it may never balance. ( I had 8 lbs. inthe nose, it's a stubby nose. The secret to a great flying twin is WASHOUT.

Brad....what engines did you use in your Beech.?
If you built another now knowing what you do about locating the CG what if anything would you change in building the aft end to keep it as light as possible.?
Is the washout standard in the Ziroli design or did you add more?
Mine is being built from an Aeroplane works kit......

Kevin,

Send me a picture when it is done.

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works

I have a Ziroli D-18 and have been flying it for the last three years. It has G-38's for power. The plane flys great and is easy to land. I haven't lost and engine yet so I can't comment on single engine performance. Pay special attention to the rudder linkage while building. Any slop in the bellcranks will cause them not to center properly. The flap on the plans leaves you with an unsupported inner section while transporting the wings. I split the flap at the wing joint.

Did you have to ballast to get the CG to locate and if so approx how much?

Oddly enough, my first D-18 had diesels on it. Converted glow engines with a big name conversion kit. I won't say the name because I get bent just thinking of the time and money I wasted , not to mention his insulting attitude when you call him for advise. Any way, after several flights with one or the other engine quiting, and finally when BOTH quit on final, I installed US 41s, and they ran great. Then I had G-38s in both a D-18 and the C-47s. I will probably build another D-18 after I get my Navajo project done, it was fun to do aerobatics with it, the C-47s will roll, but it looks silly. Don't worry too much about adding weight and shifting /lightening, it is very important to have solid rudder and elevator control, don't compromise with long rods. the plane flies great even with 8 lbs of lead in the nose, I think you'd really have to screw it up to make it over weight. Mine had an operable door and an interior, so that might have been a factor on the nose weight. The other fella is right about the flaps, put a lot of thought into how you are going to make them work. My 18 was one piece fuse and center section, and one piece flaps.

I forgot to answer the washout question. I always add more than the plans show. If you are going to fly a plane upside down half the time, don't add washout, but if you have a plane that you want to be stable in turns, easy to flair,no surprises on an engine out (twins) or is on the heavy side (warbirds and multis) add washout, If you guys want to know the secret ingredient to a great flying plane, this is it.

I've had a D-18 for 6 years. Power is G-38's and seems to be plenty if you watch your weight. Mine weighs 40 lbs. with about 1 lb of nose weight. It was my first twin. Don't horse it off the ground, let it run out and you'll be fine. Guys get out of shape on take off and tend to forget about the rudder AND the throttle.Be prepared to pull the power back a tad and catch up or abort it and start over. If you fly the beech in crosswinds enough it will happen. Good Luck.

"Converted glow engines with a big name conversion kit. I won't say the name because I get bent just thinking of the time and money I wasted , not to mention his insulting attitude when you call him for advise. "


Oh, I think I know just who your are talkign about. Man what a pain, going to Diesel was suposed to make life simpler.

Brad and AWL:

Since there is only one "Big" name in diesel conversion I don't think it's necessary to say the name *D*A*V*I*S* on line.

Haw.

Bill.

I watched one fly three times, today. It flew well, and landed with a dead engine, once. Thepilot flew it again a short while later.

Tom.......Im very curious as to what engines were used in the example at Traverse City.If you could get the pilots name or phone/email that would be helpful too,as you are practically next door neighbors to me..
I had a conversation with Nick Sr. last week regarding the twin Beech design.Of interest are his opinions on :
Engines: He feels G38s are naturals for this design,citing reliability and simplicity .He is not a fan of electronic ignitions.I cant buy his arguments entirely but what the heck,its his design!

CG: He is not aware of any particular inherent need for massive lead nose ballast to balance.He says keep the tail building light and watch the weight of the finish.

Wing washout: He says enough is designed in on the original plans.

Finish: He says go with lightweight glass cloth and epoxy under paint ,wings included.

Kevin, I believe the D-18 has Brisson 3.2's in it. I saw the plane fly at the meet in Grande Ledge. It's funny, tho, because the pilot is from my area. I know him, but can't find his number in the book. I see him once in a while, and when I do, I'll get his number and email for you.

I am currently building the D-18 and was wondering where you guys put the air cylinder for the retracts? Thanks

mine will use two cylinders installed in the wing centre section and I dont think the exact location is critical........maybe I will get an education as I finish the wing........Right now Im sweating the engine decision........

My 12 year old D 18 is still around. G38's. I believe it was Chuck Gills very first kit of one. Both engines quit once at a Byron flyin. Good glide ratio, and another time at a Fl. flyin one of the engines fell out but no problems going around and landing. Must say its a good stabe aircraft.

My model is from a Gill kit too.........v nice quality..........not laser cut or anything but miles ahead of scratching from plans myself........besides I bought it half done at a great price ,from a fellow modeller who ran out of steam........

I am also going with the Zenoah G-38's. This combo seems to be proven out there (Not that there aren't others as well). I have heard nothing but good things about the reliability of the Zenoah engines and they were readily available (Found one on the net NIB for $250)

Is there a chance that some or any of you would be willing to post a couple of pictures for us to admire and drool over??

Egor