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Edge 3D set ups

Old 08-18-2004, 12:42 AM
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Shogun
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Default Edge 3D set ups

Ok guys I thought about asking this question over in the 3D forum but decided that it might be a good idea to go where all of the other Edge guys congregate and of course perhaps Tom will have an answer to my question.

My Edge is set up basically like many others I have been seeing on the net so there is nothing different about it versus anyone elses. I am not sure of the weight but I'm guessing around 18 lbs with a DA 50 and 3 nicad packs, balance is at 5 inches back.

Here's what I'm wanting to know....

Does anyone have one set up that actually is stable in a harrier or elevator and doesn't rock the wings like mad? IF I slow mine down to a stall and flip into high rates as soon as I apply a little elevator it starts rocking and can be a real handful. I have tried different throttle settings, elevator throws anywhere from 10 to 40 degrees and spoilerons and nothing really makes a difference. I have my suspicions that my problem is just high wing loading but I want to know if anyone out there has one that is basically built stock from the box that 3D's well for them?

Or are only the planes that have $200 worth of carbon fiber upgrades in them doing the 3D thing well?

Also, what seems to be the concensus on the best 3D prop for this airplane with a DA 50 that is past the break in stage? I am considering a Mejzlick 23 x 8 or an NX 22 x 8 but would love to try a Menz.....alas nobody seems to have any right now. Currently I'm using an MSC 22 x 8 and it seems ok but I think I can do better.....maybe I'm wrong on this?
Old 08-18-2004, 04:57 AM
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Tired Old Man
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

The C/F upgrades offer only a very little in performance improvments. Tom's statement about lightening the wallet more that the plane has a good point. I like the C/F wing tube because it is stiffer more than any other reason.

Though I'm flying the 300S, I had the same problem with wing rocking. Two things have helped a quite bit. One is to get the nose in a very high angle of attack very quickly. another seems to be rudder trim. If it is off just a small amount, the wing rocking becomes quite severe. With or without spoilerons doesn't seem to matter for a flat Harrier, but using them does help on a rolling Harrier.

This part gets scary, so if you don't like the risk, don't go here. Weighting the tail tube a little at a time until you reach the point where the plane has to be hand flown all the time has the biggest effect on the Harrier. But it gets really easy to lose the plane, so I don't recommend it.
Old 09-09-2004, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

I haven't found anything to help my edge in the harrier or elevator either Shogun, I was starting to wonder if it has somthing to do with the extra wing area designed into this plane. I had a Hangar 9 edge that would harrier and elevator aaaaaalllllllllllll day long and be comfortable. Any thoughts on this Tom?
Old 09-09-2004, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

I cured mine Joker. Find my thread here titled Eureka.

My prblem was a heavy wing, she will harrier and elevator now with the best of them.
Old 09-09-2004, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

My thoughts are these. Shogun reported that his problem was with lateral (side to side) balance. This makes some sense.

Other report thet the plane does a better harrier inverted than upright. I have no explanation of why, but I've heard this many times so there's probably something to it.

If I find the magic bullet to making our planes do a perfect harrier I'll incorporate the change into the planes.

TF
Old 09-09-2004, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

Tom, many of the "names" involved in TOC types of competition had found out a long time ago that a harrier was better performed inverted with some planes. It was later understood that the vertical placement of the empennage on the fuselage in relationship with the main wing was the cause of this.

Full scale aerobats had experienced the same situations, which was the primary reason for developmental changes in the Extra and Cap lines of full scale planes outside of engine horsepower additions. During the evolving years of the Extra, the primary differences in the airframe from the 230 to the 300 were in the tail group. There was the addition of the two place cockpit from the single place to be certain, but that was only a "baggage" issue. The major changes between the Cap 231 and 232 were in the shape of the cowl, and the re-location of the horizontal stab in relationship to the rudder and main wing, with an associated increase in rudder size. In both types of aircraft, there were subtle differences incorporated into the main wing, but to nowhere near the extent of the changes made to the aft portions of the aircraft.

These minor differences are why many pattern planes are developed and constructed with the ability to move the horizontal stab up and down a little and to be able to change the incidence of the main wing and horizontal stab without needing to construct a new plane to further your experiments.

As in all things aviation, there is no perfect solution, IMO. You can only achieve a pleasing balance. The rest of the game is up to the individual to properly set up the aircraft, while taking care to use the best components possible, install them correctly, and practice, practice, practice. I think it was Frank Noll who once said something to the effect that the only thing you needed to do to learn how to hover was to burn lot's and lot's of fuel. In that, I couldn't agree more.
Old 09-09-2004, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

Shogun..How did you attach the necessary weight to the wingtip??
Old 09-09-2004, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

Currently I just have some great planes stick on weights on it. I plan on making some more changes that could effect the balance so I am holding off putting them in the wing. When I'm finally satisfied with the overall set up of the airplane I will probably remove the covering from the wingtip and make a slot to place the weights in and recover the wingtip. Nothing all that complicated to it really, just don't use glue that can attack foam and you'll be fine.
Old 09-14-2004, 07:21 PM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

Welcome to The Cirkus! The home of Extreme 3D!
good link for how too's and to sharpen some moves..only a couple of videos but growing.just reg.and you can see vids,
http://www.flyingcirkus.com/default.asp?content=3du
Old 09-15-2004, 02:36 AM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

ORIGINAL: [email protected]

Welcome to The Cirkus! The home of Extreme 3D!
good link for how too's and to sharpen some moves..only a couple of videos but growing.just reg.and you can see vids,
http://www.flyingcirkus.com/default.asp?content=3du


That is related HOW to this thread???

Scott, do you by chance have a picture of the setup you used for lateral balancing(that you were talking about in the "eureka" thread)? I'd like to see it if possible. Thanks.
Old 09-17-2004, 08:28 AM
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flyme2dmoon
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

I had to add weight on my left wing too. The right wing always drops first when I slow it down and when I do a tight loop. It improved after adding the weight.
Old 09-18-2004, 04:11 PM
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dannny745
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

harriers and hovering are 3d moves right..
there are alot of people out there that think they now how to 3d and there are those people that learn 3d by reading vids that show a plane and stick moves at same time ..and they exsplain that you need a cerain % of throw for 3d..this reminds me that in a thread someone said to rolling harriers that you should use low rates on ailirons ,,i thought that was wrong and it was as per a pro.flying in the vids..any help from a pro for 3d helps...use alot of expo on all conrtol surfaces...
Old 09-18-2004, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: Edge 3D set ups

Actually I have discovered that many of us that were trying to 3D with max throws and a LOT of expo and still weren't getting it had it wrong.

Expo is a great feature on modern radios but too much of it can cause you a lot of problems where you think it's the airplane when it's really the delayed reation to the inputs from the pilot. Cutting way down on expo and learning to fly in 3D rates smoothly makes a HUGE difference in the control of the plane at lower air speeds.

As for doing a harrier roll in low rates.....

Once you know how to do them it really doesn't matter how much roll you input because you can fly a harrier roll through in a slow roll or a faster one, the stick movements and control inputs are the same, the timing of those inputs changes though with the speed of the roll. Attempting to learn harrier rolls with too much aileron can get a beginner in trouble in a hurry because everything is happening too fast for them to keep up with.

The best approach is to find a roll rate that is about one roll per second or a bit faster and practice by starting the roll and holding the stick at the stop while applying rudder and elevator to keep the nose up. Of course as you get the hang of it you might want to pick up the roll rate some more.

It's not hard to do harrier rolls but it does take a lot of practice to make them look good.

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