Pat

"No" I don't have the Taurus, I have the Brison 3.2... Just after ready about the Taurus it made want one. I would probably sell the 3.2 Brison add some cash to get the Taurus. I'm not some extreme 3D guy, but I do want to be able to pull out of a Hover and do flat spins Rolling circles. I just don't want it to be underpowered. The reason I went with the Brison is I have the 2.4s and it has been a great motor. I just want to make sure it's not underpowered.

Okay, the clarity helped.

The Brison 3.2, which I have in mine, will leave you with no limitations either. If you don't have a burning need to spend the cash, then don't. With my Ultimate and the Brison 3.2 acceleration out of the hover is excellent. So is holding the hover. There is AMPLE power for ANY maneuver you want to do, including rolling harriers, waterfalls, elevators with change overs into other maneuvers.

Back to the Taurus. If you already had it, then I would say to install it. But if you have the Brison and the Taurus would be a new purchase I don't see the point. What many (if not most) fail to understand is that the differences between the DA50, the Brison 3.2, and the Taurus 52 are relatively minor. Most of those are in the engine weights, with the Taurus having a slight actual power advantage over both, IMO. Definatel not enough of a difference to run out and spend several hundreds of dollars extra for, or to sacrifice any value in a sale of the Brison to make the change. You'd be far better off managing the weight of the aircraft and making good prop selections.

I feel no need whatsoever for a larger or different engine from that which I already have in the Ultimate. That 3.2 Brison will not leave you wanting for more power.

Pat

Thanks for the reply Pat. What did you end up using for a prop on your Brison?

I'm currently using a Mejzlik 22-8. I would have used a Menz in the same size but the nose was light enough already. Normally I would have used an MSC 22-8, but the weight of the Ultimate (light!) and the additional drag of the second wing pushed me more towards speed over thrust. The choice worked out really well. It's not fast unless you want it to be and pulls vertical out a hover, as some would say, "with authority".

Pat

I think any good 3.2 is all you need. Here is a somewhat low hover shot with the 3.2. I think the only way you could go better is a small twin like the 3W 56 or 48. Twins just have more torque.

Posting for Pat (Silversurfer)


For those that want to do the struts, here's some pics to work with. Shaft distance from the aileron trailing edge is 15mm. Harden or fill the inside of the aileron so not to crush. That's really important. The separation of the horn from the aileron surface is not important, as long as both sides are the same.

Pat

I'm just getting to the point of hooking up the ailerons on mine... that linkage seems like it might be a good idea... saves a bunch of weight and I already have 5945 servos which have plenty of juice... I just happen to have some extra MK clevices, control horns and some 1/8 cf rod around too... hmmm...

You are right... as long as the linkage connects at the same distance from each aileron the control throw should be identical. Might take a little longer to set up at the field but it's just an extra 4 screws to remove the connecing rod between the ailerons... hmmm... light is good, 2 less servos to power Are you getting any extra flex with this setup? How did you install hard points for the linkages int he trailing edge - did you just insert dowels?

So far I have my wings built, struts aligned, incidence set and tail feathers installed. Just waiting on my new Cowl so I can mount the DA50... probably another 10 hrs work and she'll be done. The build has been very smooth and uneventful so far... about the hardest part was making new aircraft-ply tabs - and that was darn easy LOL.

Chris.

First, thanks to RTK for posting the pics for me. The server I'm using at the moment won't interface with RCU all that well, and pics just don't seem possible from this end.

Regarding the aileron stiffeners, I was in a hurry so all I did was to drill a hole just large enough to fit the tip if the Gorilla glue into. Squeezed in a bunch and taped it over until it dried. Seems to work so far, but installing an actual hard point would be a lot better.

Flex, what flex?? There ain't no stinking flex!! Really, there's no noticable flex, and control motion will be the same top and bottom if the angles of the horns equal the angle of the ailerons. Even if it ends up off a tad due to a miscalculation in the screw angles you will have far more than you need for maximum performance in anything. If you have more than 30 degrees of aileron travel with this plane you are going to get into trouble very quickly. Those that are used to setting up 3D aileron travels at 35 degrees and up need to re-think the issue for a biplane.

It does take a few minutes longer to set up at the field, but that just gives you more of a chance for a better pre-flight, and the time needed to answer all the questions from the other people at the field about how great it flys! I leave the struts connected to the bottom aileron during dissasembly, and use a small piece of velcro to secure the strut to the aileron control rod to keep them from flopping around during trqansport and storage. Then again, it will fit fully assembled in the back of a standard pick up.

Pat

Just got back to work on mine... Winter here in NY, but spring is approching fast. Decided to use the 3.2 Brison I have. Thinkit will be fine...

p51flyby,

Could you do me a favor? Would you post a couple of pictures of your radio and battery set-up if you get the chance? I'd like to see how you arranged your electronics so as to maximize access to the "innards"

Spoke with Tom at Wildhare today and he said he would probably ship my Ultimate this afternoon! What a nice gentlemen to work with. He was extremely helpful and made sure I was comfortable with the hardware selection I was making.

Tom,

My Ultimate arrived a day ahead of schedule and the packaging was very effective - despite obvious rough handling in transit, the airframe was totally untouched. The hardware kit and servos arrived at the same time. Thanks again for such great service!!

v/r

tom

Tom,

I have a different way to mount the receiver, that I hadn't seen mentioned on this thread. Unfortunately, I'm on my way out the door to the airport, and will be gone all week. I'll post pics this weekend, hopefully on Saturday. You'll definitely enjoy your ultimate.

Gary,

Thanks for the reply - whenever you can get to it would be fine; have a safe trip!

tom

I have a few inner pics. Perhaps I can get them to upload this time. I'll edit this a few times for notes.

The first pic is where I placed a Matchbox. Only used the one since I made slave struts for the ailerons. Just behind the wing saddle. The open space to the left of the throttle servo is where the receiver is located.

The second pic is a view of how the wires and extensions are secured coming from the tail. That was done in three locations to support the wires. Yes, the covering was removed to do this, but for me it's not a big deal to gain the extra life in the wiring. With the same photo you'll see a shadow from the carbon rod on the canopy floor. That's exactly where a new tray for the flight and ignition batteries is located. I'll be moving one of the two batteries forward for a 6-3/4" C/G. Currently it's at about 7-1/8". Don't go there!

Third pic is where you can remove some weight from each "I" strut. Not a lot, I agree, but it's weight just the same.

Fourth and fifth pics are pretty much self explanatory.

Sixth pic shows the second (lower) shelf installed with the regulators. It's easily removable to access the receiver and servo under it. The large hardwood block included with the parts kit was not used. Aluminum angle is lighter.

The only items mounted forward of the bottom wing leading edge is the engine, ignition, and spinner. Both switches are mounted aft of the wing saddle in the ply sides. I used pin switches (Fromeco) so I'm not sure if enough space is available in the same places for standard switches. You can just see one in pic number 6 to the far lower right. There's another one that's not visible at the same relative location at the top of the pic.

I have three other pics that are too large to send from this location that I sent to Tom with the hope they can get uploaded by someone with a lot more computer skills than I have.

One is of the tail wheel linkage using wire to connect at the tail wheel tiller. Different springs were used 'cuz I liked them better. The other two are completed pics that show the slave struts. Whoops, looks like the tail wheel linkage is going to take. The reason for the wire at the tiller bar is because the metal edges in the bar are too sharp and cut standard fishing line and the Dacron line I used at the other end. Using left over wire from the tail flying wires works out just fine.

Pat

Something to note.

In pic #5 you see balsa blocks installed over the wing retention holes. I installed those after noting that the trailing edge of the wing will deform (bend into the wing opening) as you tighten the retention screws due to the space between the wing and the mounting blocks. They're pretty easy to install. Use an appropriate thickness of balsa and drill a 10-32 hole in them. Or 1/4", either works. Glue them to the top of the mounting blocks and use the edge of the wing saddle as a guide to block sand them to the correct shape and height. A piece of masking tape applied to the saddle edges protects the covering from abrasion when sanding the blocks.

Pat,

Great photos and text - thank you very much for taking the time to post them!

One item I am wondering about...does the layout of having the battery shelf above the rudder/trottle servo tray restrict the ease of doing a thorough pre-flight on the interior components?

v/r

tom

The lower tray makes it kind of tough to see the throttle servo and the receiver. That's why mine is removable. The kit provides a hardwood block to cut and glue to the fuse sides as an upper tray securement point. I elected to use home made aluminum tabs with nuts and bolts, but the hardwood will be fine using simple 2-56 sheet metal screws if you want to. A total of 4 screws would be enough. That would be faster than my method, but a little heavier.

Should you elect to install a tray at the location I noted, it would be well worth taking the time to survey things to see how you can work with plugs and such before you nail down the covering again. On mine I can access the battery plugs, but not the switches or batteries themselves. Before you decide where to place the batteries, try to complete as much of the assembly as you can to obtain a rough balance at 6-3/4" by moving the batteries and rudder servo prior to attaching them. Should you need to, a single rudder servo in the tail works just fine if you add a little additional support around the rudder horn point.

The plane WILL balance without any extra weight with engines from 50 to 62cc, but parts placement becomes critical with larger than 52cc engines. If you're using a DA50, the batteries will likely need to be more forward than mine are. BTW, the batteries in mine are Fromeco 4,800 and 2,400 Lithion Ion for reference purposes. Lighter than nimh and nicads.

Pat asked me to post these.

TF

Something must have gotten lost in the transfer. Not your fault. I'll try submitting them again.

Now all I get is page unavailable messages when I try to upload.

Here are the interior shots Tom Riddle Requested. I had mentioned to him in another e-mail exchange that I chose not to use the mounting plate because I like to inspect servos before each day of flying, and removing/re-installing the plate was an extra field assembly step I didn't want to perform each day. So here's my solution, which allows me to do a quick check of everything inside before flying.

It's tough to capture in pictures, once it's assembled. I attached the Rx to a Ply plate installed vertically, just behind the fuel tank. Pics 1 and 2 show the plate (I pulled the tank a little forward so that the plate is easier to see. The receiver is mounted on the opposite side of the plate (only the zip ties are visible in this picture), so that it is underneath the throttle servo. The vertical ply plate is mounted to the servo tray with 2 4-40 bolts and blind nuts. I also use a rubber band to keep the aileron extensions near the top of the plate, so it's easy to hook up the lower-wing ailerons when I assemble the plane. I mounted the batteries to the side of the rudder servo. I have 2 1600 mah NiMH batteries, with one mounted below the servo tray, and the other below the servo tray, with 1/4" foam on each side of the servo tray to absorb vibration. This setup allows CG to be set exactly as specified in the manual, and the plane slowed down nicely for landing, with no nose-heavy feel (I've only had one flight on it so far). I haven't quite decided what I want to do if/when I want to move the CG back. I'm more into aerobatics flight than 3-D, so I may leave the CG where it is.... time will tell. The third pic is a better one, zoomed out so that you can see the entire installation. You can also see the ignition battery (1600 mah NiMH) mounted just behind the forward bulkhead.

Hopefully this is useful to others who are in the process of assembling their bipes.

Gary

Gary,

Great set up - thank you for posting the pics. My engine is due in ~ Monday and the workbench is cleared!

tom

For you guys running the 3.2 Brison... Do you remember how long your stand-offs were for mounting the Brison the right distance from the firewall. Wanted to order a set now before instalation....

!-5/8" to 1-11/16" depending on the thickness of the backplate. Funny, but it's about exactly the same as that on the Edge or Extra.

This question is for anyone here who is flying larger stuff. It doesn't have to do with the Ultimate but I know there is tons of knowlege here. I am building the Wildhare Ultimate and a few other large planes. With going larger I have been thinking of using Carbon fiber rods. I have a Zero warbird I want to use them for Pushrods and Elevators and My best friend wants to use them on his Ultimate. Do they hold out any major problems?

Gary,

Are you using a 16 oz fuel tank?

tom