speedracerwon

Hello OliverJacob ,

I am using the Avgas in my plane. As I posted earlier I use it to keep the smell out of my new car. The plane sits in the car in my garage all week as I wait for the weekend to go flying. I am running a 3 line fuel system with a fuel dot filler and a removable plug as a vent line. There is no smell in the car from the plane being stored in it. Of course the fuel tank is emptied after flying and the vent line plugged.

The few times (after) I used regular gas, there was a slight smell of gasoline in the car. After 50plus flights the plane runs fine on the Avgas.

I store it unmixed in a separate 5 gallon can adding oil to a gallon or so at a time for my flight can.

Vinny

speedracerwon

By the way OliverJacob,

I understand that the Avgas is better for the small Walbro carburetors that most small engines use. The lack of the many additives that regular pump gas contain are not found in Avgas. Thus the diaphragm and other parts in the carb are not effected by the Avgas.

It is also nice in the event that if you were to get it on your hands and clothes the smell is gone in a few minutes as opposed to being on you the whole day.

Look I am a mechanic and have smelled enough fuel products to last a lifetime. Avgas is a pleasure for me.

Vinny

ghoffman

My Feedback: (3)

I use VP fuels SEF with Stihl 50:1 and the smell, either before or after combustion, is trivial.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

It has been said that no gas engine is as powerful as an equivalent glo engine. I'm not going to argue specifics related to the different fuels but will relate two experiences I have had that for me, disprove this theory. In the past, two of my favorite glo engines were the OS 160 2 stroke and the Saito 180 4 stroke. I always found both of these engines to be of very high quality, they are easy to handle, reliable with excellent, fairly equivalent power. Just all around pleasant engines to own and live with. With the advent of the DLE 30, I swapped both of the glo engines listed above for the DLE 30. This has been a great experience and the one replacing the Saito has been in place for 2 seasons now. First, I could get the fuel tank out of the cramped nose and move it back near the CG which made more room for everything in the plane. The new fuel tank is much smaller as anyone that has ever fed a big Saito knows, they are thirsty. The overall weight of the Saito or OS compared to the DLE30 is within a few ounces and they both easily fit in the same space. Takeoff weight of the planes actually went down by switching to gas. I moved up to a 1" larger diameter prop which greatly improved prop efficiency. Vibration levels seem less with the DLE than the Saito, about the same as the OS. Now here is the really good part .... more power! The DLE far outperformes the Saito or the OS, has superior throttle response at any RPM and in any attitude and in general, just makes the planes far more enjoyable to fly. With the larger prop, I also gained some prop braking that I completely lacked with the glo engine. I don't know about some people, but for me that is a performance increase by switching to gas.

I still enjoy glo engines but gas just decreases my work load at the field. Gas engines have a completely different torque curve than glo engines so most of my flying is done at much lower throttle settings and lower RPMs. The planes stay cleaner and most of the time I don't wipe anything off the bottom .... and I never really minded glo cleanup that much, but don't miss it when flying gas!

Its clear to me that many people's opinions about gas engines were formed back in about 1975 or so (or at least based their opinions on those early engines) when gassers were anemic at best. They vibrated, lacked power and in general were poor substitutes for glo engines. Add to that a complete lack of good props at the time. I know I dabbled in gas a couple of times back then, then again in the 80's sometime. Swore off them several times and told myself I'd never go back to them. But then in the mid 90's I got back into gassers and have enjoyed them ever since. My early negative opinions of gas were almost exactly those related in several posts in this thread. I suspect those relating these opinions had a bad gasser experience once upon a day and have bitterly retained that experience ever since. I moved on and find the whole gasser experience quite pleasant and certainly, not one lacking in performance!

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

and I thought I was the only one! (except for the rubber )

SigMan

My Feedback: (21)

gassers are easier, but 4 stroke glow still rules.

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

Thanks, Vinny

I will try Avgas as soon as the flying season starts again. Can't wait.

speedracerwon

Your welcome Oliver, let me know how it goes.

Vinny

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

speaking of addiction, fire up a Jett engine. You'll be hooked on nitro! (of course the neighbors will hate you )

Sport_Pilot

This might be true for 80 octane avgas. But 100LL has additives namely toulene to keep the octane high without lead. There was an AD years ago to replace the plastic carb floats with metal floats because the gas was eating up the floats. Now maybe because it has no ethanol it is better, but not sure about toulene's effect on diaphrams.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Likewise my DA150.

Boom. End of story.

Eindecker_pilot

I don't think I would frame the question in the same way: which is better A or B? It's a matter of optimum fit for the application. Is your plane smaller or giant scale? Is weight or cost an issue? Is torque more important than power for the plane & prop combo you want to fly? Depending on the user's answer to these questions, a glow engine could be a great choice. I have some of both on different airplanes & wouldn't consider switching that around because for me I think the optimum fit has been reached. On a smaller airplanes, if you want a 4-stroke sound for minimum weight at reasonable cost, I haven't found anything better than a 4-stroke glow engine. If one needs massive amounts of power to fly a 1/3 scale airplane around, a twin cylinder gas engine is hard to beat.

rctech2k7

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry, forgot to see your question. That statement pertains to the flash point of the fuel because if I have alternatives I prefer the lesser volatile. I didn’t say that I don't like gasoline but it has a very low flash point. Storage and handling requires more safety and high consideration. It doesn't require add'l temp to vaporize. When mishandle, the vapor can mix with air easily, turn within explosive range of mixture that only require spark to ignite. This is why hydrocarbon vapor is very dangerous in enclose space. Even at open space, a tiny fire doesn't need to touch the liquid fuel to ignite. On large scale tank, we use inert gas to replace oxygenated air...

Other fuel like nitro, specially diesel, kerosene and jet A has considerably higher flashpoint than gasoline. It requires additional temp or preheating to turn into gas and ignite.

All these fuel when injected to a running combustion chamber it turns into gas very quickly. The mixture of these gases with oxygen and fire quickly transfer energy into heat, then heat into pressure, then pressure into volume or to displacement... These are components of gas cycle used on our engine and it's also the same thermodynamics used for gas-turbine or jet engine.

Hope I answered your question.

pilotpete2

Truckracer,
Excellent post[8D]
After 3 seasons of hassle free flying with two small gas engines (20cc & 26cc), the only glow engines I own are .90 class 4 strokes. If I were starting out all over, I would probably be all gas and electrics for small models, EDF's (I'll never own a gas turbine on my "fixed"income[&o]) and as I also love sailplanes, brushless motors and Lipos certainly have their place[8D]
Best to all for a Happy and Healthy New Year!,
Pete

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Thanks,

Just trying to stay within the spirit of what the OP was looking for when he created this thread. One thing is clear in this thread, there are quite a few very uninformed opinions about what the gasser flying experience is all about. Just to be fair though, there are also quite a few informed opinions from those who just don't care for gassers and I certainly respect that viewpoint. One point I completely agree with though .... all forms of engines and motors have their place in our hobby.

I still own more glo and electric powered planes than I do gassers but the gassers get flown more often. For the die hard glo supporters, I was an avid pylon racer for many years and glo certainly rules there. I don't travel to many races these days but still fly the planes on occasion just to enjoy those beautiful, high performance engines.

Now, its warmer out today and the wind is down so I think I'll go fly something!

dbacque

My Feedback: (3)

Oh, I didn't realize that when you asked for opinions you really meant you wanted opinions that match yours! Shouldn't an open forum be open to both sides of a discussion?

I think glow engines are great, they are perfect for me and for what I fly. I have friends that fly nothing but gas and it's the only thing that I'd put in the planes they fly. I still build planes that have rubber bands for power and it's perfect for them. For some planes, you can't beat electric. The point is, there are lots of choices and no one power source is "better" than any other unless specific design constraints are given.

Peace, love and airplanes.

Dave

Speedy-Gonzales

My Feedback: (202)

I would love to try 80 AG but the octane is too low for the high compression ZDZ's so I am sticking with 92 pump gas and Stihl HP Ultra.

Toluene??? NASTY stuff. Great for removing the furr off any critter but I would not even consider running it through my engines. Toluene has many uses as a solvent and also as a drying agent making some materials hard and brittle. A derivitive of Benzene. I would not wash my hands in it or brush my teeth with it either.

CellTech

If I was to invest the kind of money it takes to buy a DA 120 I would by a real airplane to park my butt. I can't imagine flying something so big that you don't have physical control of it. Those giant models are an accident waiting to happen. Not about if but when

speedracerwon

Toluene is in everything today. It is nasty stuff and unfortunately I use it almost everyday in one chemical or another. A few of us have been doing a lot of research on fuels, oils, ratio's etc.
So far it seems that the formula of 100LL is better for small engine carbs than pump gas.
With the lead content I am sure it is not healthy to breath, but then again neither is any other incomplete burn.

Once again I only use it for the lack of odor.

Vinny

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Toluene is one of the major ingredients in most gasoline formulas produced today. Up to 35% in auto pump gas is normal depending on the region of the country and the time of year. Even higher % in unleaded and even leaded racing gasolines. It seems to be a plentiful byproduct of the refining process and it has a very high octane rating plus it is reasonably cheap. Overall, it is an excellent engine fuel and has been around for years as one of the ingredients in the gasoline cocktail but nobody even knew it was there unless they researched the issue. I have often referred to toluene as running ones engine on paint thinner but few choose to listen. Oh well, this is really old news for the most part.

What does this have to do with gassers being enjoyable and addictive powerplants anyway? Seems like this could be the subject of its own thread if anybody really cared!

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

Has anyone thought of using rubber bands for propulsion? Oh, sorry. I see that someone mentioned something earlier about rubbers. That was about rubber bands, wasn't it?

Bob

wherewaldo

try leaving a gas can in your car all day ... the smell will be with you for days
unlike the glow fuel

a1pcfixer

My Feedback: (7)

Where do people come up with such nonsense?
Such people probably need directions on how to put their underwear on the correct way each day![&:]

SpinnerRow

LOL!

Maybe this guy and the one that cranks his gas motor in the house should form a support group!

speedracerwon

The subject of Toluene came up so it was addressed.
Any way time to go.