RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Guys,

I have bought Hangar 9 Edge 540 (1.20). The plane is already build and looks solid. But I don't have any paperwork for it. Before I fly it I'd like to see, how it is supposed to be finished.
In this the tail configuration is: kevlar pul-pul for the rudder (one servo) and two push-pul elevator with long CF rods (two servos next to rudder servo). Please help me with the following questions:
1. What is the balance point?
2. What are the recommended servos (speed and torque). I'm not sure if HS-605 will be good for ailerons (I have a spare pair), and I'm planning to buy some Hitec digital for tail (what size?).
3. What is the recommended battery size (at 6V)
4. The wing is mounted by 4 nylon 1/4" bolts screwed directly into the wood. Is it enough? Will it hold the force i.e. of the "wall"?

The plane now has 12.5 lb with OS 3500 BGX. It's still within recommended weight but with wing loading 28 I will need to start thinking how to save the weight.

Any help, recommendations, comments are very welcomed
Anyone has the instruction to spare?

First picture shows how wing is mounted.

RysiuM

ilrcflyboy

My Feedback: (5)

Here is the .pdf manual from Horizon Hobby:
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/shar...350-manual.pdf

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

This picture shows the tail servos configuration. You can see the two wooden sticks where the wing bolds are screwed into (the holes are marked with W.B.).

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks ilrcflyboy. This was fast response
Yesterday I was surfing on the Internet looking for that and couldn't find it. Thanks again

RysiuM

bentgear

I've got a question about the picture showingthe pull/pull setup. Why the spring between the two cables? Trying to keep the slack out?
Ed M.

Stick Jammer

RysiuM,
From your photo it appears that there is a steel spring linked between the two steel clevises on the pull-pull. If that is the case it could cause radio interference, especially with what appears to be the antenna close by.

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

I am having my H9 Edge 540 built by a friend. What I and he decided to do was mount 2 elevator servos (Hitec 5645 Digital servos) in the rear like a real giant scale plane would have.

We used Du-bro hardware everywhere and there super heavy duty arms to boot. For rudder I am leaving the set-up stock and using a Hitec 5945 Digital Coreless servo for power.

My motor is a Moki 180 (30cc) and should be a good 2:1 power ratio for some 3d flying.

The plane is getting close to completion and when I get it back I will be sure to post many pictures...

Questions I have:

1) Did anyone have trouble drilling the wing mounting holes for the wings onto the fusealage like in picture 2???

2) Wing, does any of your wings have what looks like anhedral? To test this get a piece of string and tape it on the middle of the leading edge at the end of each side of the wing. The string should run strait across the wing, if it doesnt then you have anhedral.

3) Flying characteristics, how are the 3d characteristics of this plane... i.g. harriers, hovers, torque rolls, blenders, pop-ups, knife edge (authority?) and so on

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I've been already asking myself about it. Someone told me, that it might keep cables together, in case of slop and preventing the servo horn linkage to go around the servo. I have a trouble to believe that. I will post the answer when I will find out.
The spring is quite loose when servo is in center position so it doesn't do anything else, than vibrate making an electromagnetic noise. I didn't make my mind what to do about that yet.

I don't know yet. It was my concern too. But the pul-pul is made out of kevlar, so not to much metal to create a RF noise.

It doesn't look like. Wing settles perfectly square. The only thing I noticed, is the instruction says about blind nuts, but these nylon screws are going straight to the wood. I might enforce it. I'd like to do "wall" and "parachute" so I will need very strong wing.

I have checked my wing - nothing. Wing is straight.

What I know, an Edge 540 is the easiest plane for 3D. It doesn't tip stall, does harrier like PBF and when kept light, all hight alpha kind of flying is a piece of cake. That what I heard. I had never edge before, and as a matter of fact this is my first "big scale" plane. I just think I have grown up for that.
I don't expect I will have it in the air for the next couple of weeks - you know I like do some details "my way", so I will post my experience later.

Today I was replacing aileron push rods from soft steel to carbon fiber (I love carbon fiber - you can't go wrong with that).

Thank you guys for your answers and concerns. All of them I take very serious.

RysiuM

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

Sounds cool RysiuM

Mine will be done at the end of the week I am thinking, maybe a little longer.

I have a Pete Models Carbon fiber spinner, Graphtec R/C carbon fiber (blue weave) landing gear, and Graphtec R/C carbon fiber (blue weave) tail wheel set-up.

I thought about carbon fiber rods and all that but I don't really think there necessary. I am using Du-bro hardware all around.

Everything on the plane I got is built now and now mostly a matter of radio set-up and programming. I am waiting for my pilot and instrument panel to come from Chiefaircraft. All's I need now is fuel dots and a reciever switch.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Now I'm looking at the servos. First I was thinking of putting all digital servos (fast, strong and precise), but after I read all stories about Hitec Digital I got scared. Standard (analog) servos give less performance but at least they will not lock full deflected surface by themselves. I have already totaled one plane because of radio glitch and it wasn't pretty view. I want to save my big one from that.

What you guys think, can I get away with the following configuration:
- 2 x HS-605BB on ailerons (I have a spare pair, so I'm thinking this bird might like them here). Are they tough enough?
- 1 x HS-945MG on pul-pul rudder (it's fast, strong and not digital ).
- 2 x HS-5625MG on elevator (this is the place I think I might need precision to be sure that both halves are moving together - same speed and the same throw). I know it's risky, but do I have other choice for the elevator?

All of them are the same speed (0.12 - 0.14) and at 6V I hope the torque will be sufficient.

If this configuration is OK, what size of battery will I need?

Yesterday night I have finished CF pushrods for the ailerons. Strong, light and stiff. I'm proud of that job

B.T.W. The manual says to put the servo that way, that the shaft is closer to the leading edge - it means longer pushrods. Why???

RysuM

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

Ive done 2 of these planes.

Pics of the tail mods are in my gallery, with a few more of those to post also.

Dual elev servos are the norm if your going with a heavy engine, both planes have this mod. The easiest way to mod it is to do it before it's built, before the horizontal stab goes on anyway.

605's are plenty for this plane...all around. Although there are more precise servos available...you can easily put more in the plane then its worth..... It flies fine with 605's though.

Balance range is 4.5" to 5.25" measured from leading edge at fusalage. Ive found them to balance precisely with the Rx/batt mid way in radio compartment. This is with heavier engine, and rear mounted elev servos.

Nice planes once you get past the mistakes in the manual, and the overall fit inconsistencies.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

One weakness of the plane designe I noticed was regarding the LG. The gear is quite long and mine pulled off on the third landing. The landing was not a thumper.. just a normal type landing. I did a repair and a little reinforcment . couple of months later the gear and wood pulled away again.. This time I took a better look of things. I ended up making a brace so that when the gear was trying to cantilever rewards the brace prevented from doing so. Essentially the brace stops the rotation of the gear block and the gear stay in place. BobH

Stick Jammer

I know a lot of people using Hitec digitals on giant scale with 0 problems. Don't program them to maximum throw and don't overdrive them when setting up your control throws and you'll be fine.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Ok. It's decided.

Ailerone. I have 2 HS-605 on the wing. Original red arm is to short, so I used "Dubro Servo Arms Long" and home made CF pushrods. Looks OK for me, but in the future I might put something better.

Rudder. One Hitec HS-945MGS in pul-pul (kevlar). I think, I know finally what the spring is for. I see two main reasons:
1. If linkage snaps the pushrod connector will not swing around free, but will stay in the same place. This will prevent from locking that servo and will keep connector away from other servos.
2. It looks like the servo arm is a little bigger than rudder horns, so the spring is keeping both lines closer and reducing the slack. It's pretty coll because in example when servo turns rudder right the kevlar is keeping it hard against the wind, but the spring allows the rudder to turn a little more left. I think this saves the servo in turbulent airflow around the rudder. I will keep it that way.

Elevator. Two Hitec HS-625MG with push-pul CF tubes. It's stiff, strong and light (I love CF). Becuse I will keep both servos under the cockpit I will not need servo extensions. Again, I see that red arms are to short, so I will use the same "Dubro Servo Arms Long".

Chuck, thank you for your help.

RysiuM

Stick Jammer

If the servo arm on your pull-pull is wider than the rudder control horns, the geometry will be off and the servo is at a mechanical disadvantage. IMO, I would change whatever is easier to get them the same and get rid of the spring. Also check that the control horn pivot points are on the hinge line or very slightly to the rear of it. You want degrees of servo travel to match degrees of rudder deflection.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Stick Jammer for the pull-pull info. The spring balanced what was screwed by different arm sizes. I scrapped it. I found also, that kevlar was thorned up in the place when it was going into the tube and where it is going out of the fuselage. I scrapped it too.
I have build entire new pull-pull linkage. Of course my favorite carbon fiber.
Because I couldn't guide the line straight (I would need to cut long slots in fuselage) so I used combination of carbon fiber and kevlar. From the servo all the way to the tail out of the fuselage I have long CF rod and from there there is a kevlar thread (to provide a flexibility).
Servo horn is the same size as rudder horn so I got clean linkage without binding and no slack at all. I was testing my connectors and they are plenty strong.

I'm proud of my pul-pull

Here is the picture of the brand new pull-pull

RysiuM

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Here it is the tail part. You can see, that I didn't finish kevlar lines yet. The will be finished with heat shrink tubbing.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

And here is my CF aileron pushrod.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

These HS-625MGs don't hold the elevator. Bummer!!!

The case is, that per instruction hi rate elevator should move 3 inches up/down. I set it up with about 140% ATV. Then I setup low rate per instruction about 1/2 inch up/down. It took abut 35% ATV. Unfortunately these servos don't hold center well under the force. Now I can force the elevator 1/2 inch before servo holds it with the full power. Halt inch !!!! It's the full throw on low. I can't fly like that. My elevator will flap around on the flight (each side separately) so much, that I will not be able even to compensate it with ailerons.

So, sorry to say, I have no other choice than digital. Brrrrrr. I'm scared, but I don't see a better solution.

RysiuM

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

somethings wrong there then... your linkage or the servo itself

I got Hitec 5645 digitals in my elevator

RJConnet

Is your servo actually moving as you force the elevator or is the CF pushrod bowing. I know the CF is very stiff but that is a fairly long pushrod if they are unsupported. Are you having the same problem with your aileron servos? If not, I would guess you are having pushrod troubles as the 625's have the same torque rating as the 605's.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, Servo is moving. Pushrod is made of 1/4 CF tube. It doesn't bend a bit. The problem is, that Hi rate is 6 times more than low rate. Maybe it is a junkie servo (both behave like that, and they are brand new - I have bought them yesterday).

See the following video clip, I have just made. First part is hi rate end-to-end movement, next is end-to-end low rate, and then how the servo gives up under the force. You can hear the servo humming.

http://rysium.home.comcast.net/servo.wmv

I'm going to LHS tomorrow to check them and probably replace for digital. I think two HS-5625MG will do the job (131 oz torque each).

I don't see a problem with ailerons just because on hi rate they move just 1 inch, and 0.5 inch on low rates. So first of all the wind force is not as strong as on elevator, and if they give up, it might be less then 1/8 inch (which is 1/4 of full deflection on low rates).
I have been warned, that ailerons might give me a problem on the "wall" or "parachute", and I might be forced to put digitals there too.

RysiuM

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

For the update.

Two digital HS-5625MG for elevator have been installed. They hold it strong. No problem any more. I've been advised to test them before the first flight, so I run them for almost 2 hours non-stop on 6V. By the way I noticed, that 2 hours of non-stop moving 2 HS-5625MG discharged my 2700 NiMH battery pack only 50%. I guess this battery is a good choice for my plane.

This weekend Chuck flew my Edge (I din't get my guts yet). BGX-1 3500 has more than enough power for it. I like this engine. It is drinking 5% nitro ($13 per gallon), but it is not thirsty as I thought. On 5 minutes test flight it took about 6 oz or maybe less. Now I need to check the plane if anything happened from vibration.

A couple notes from this flight:
1. It does tip stall when elevator is pulled hard. Next time I* need to test, how it is in slow flying.
2. 9/16 inch on elevator throw is not enough. Did they make a mistake in the instruction??? I still can't believe, that you have to setup low rates almost 6 times less than hi rates. For now I have changed it to about 1-1/4". I will see next time, how it flies.
3. Vibration broke the cowling (under the spinner). I need to find a way to glue it together. Any ideas?
4. I like BGX-1 3500. It starts from one flip - like a good gas engine. And how it sounds!

RysiuM

CrazyHerb-RCU-delete

My Feedback: (2)

I'm using the newer HS-475's on my elevator halfs in the stock position (servo tray). They work better then my 605's, faster and center MUCH better and still 70 oz torque. Best of all ...servo city has them for $17.95.(free shipping)...well worth their weight in gold.

HOWEVER!!

I have a question as well....

I'm thinking I would like to place them in the tail as well, but I have already permanently attached my horz stab. Is there a way of doing this without seriously mangling the covering....(probably not)...Second...is it worth it??? I am getting some "slop" from my carbon pushrods being that long and criss-crossing in the fuse to opposite elev half...and would help with elevator throw differences.

I'm running the RCS 1.40 and TME smoke, two 8 oz tanks, 2000mah 5 cell rx batt, and sitting at 12.5 lbs.

I'm thinking about swapping my 605s in my wing with the 475's I like them so much....

Another thing I was thinking is doing TIP PLATES like the original Raven....even though it would take some from the scale apperance I've heard that it will quell some of the tip stalling that the H9 Edge is known for....anyone tried this? Does it work??

RysiuM,
Noticed your in Sac...I'm just north of you about 40 miles. Did you snag the Edge that was hanging from the ceiling in RC Country? I saw one hangin up there looked like a good build job on it.
Keep us posted on your flights and how they go....

High Flights!
CrazyHerb

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

It was also my concern. I was thinking, how to put them under the horizontal stab. It's to tight to do it from inside (unless you have 5 years old child helping you ). Other option would be to put them a couple inches in front of stab where you can rich from inside. But then it will look ugly and linkage will be long.

I don't have a problem with slop on push-rods, but I wanted CG a little more AFT. For now, I gave up and I put 5 cells 2700 NiMH battery as far back as I could.

And watch your CG. It is much easier to fix a nose heave plane than tail heavy.

How is you vertical performance with RCS?

Tip plates on Raven - Brrrr, it looks ugly

Yes, that's the same. Now it's hanging in my garage . This plane was build very well. The guy, who did it, knew what he's doing.
I used to always build planes for myself, but this only time I made an exception because it's my first "big one". I know that anything can fly, but I wanted something solid, that will not fly into the pits . The next one will be "made by RysiuM".
I'm very pleased with this work. The only think I had to replace was all servos (except throttle), pull-pull (it was worn out), and aileron's push-rods (I didn't like Z-bends).

I will keep you posted.

RysiuM