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  1. #20651
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Yes it's the lower left cylinder,just worried about doing some damage.Temps feel fine on the other two while running.A local magazine has run one and i can't get anywhere near what he says to do at the moment.They ran 20% nitro and 22% mix of syn and castor,against my ten and 18% mix at 5000 for the first fifteen minutes.I might hop out to the shed and up the nitro to 20% and set the rpm to five thousand,will up the oil to 20% as well.Not suffering from a voltage drop across multiple glow drivers am using a single stick 2200mh nimh on each cylinder.
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  2. #20652
    retransit's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Why won't NiMh work?

    NiMh works fine on my 4 cylinder engine. McDaniel says to use either one on their latest 4 cylinder driver.

    Bob
    Bob
    Fleet Brotherhood #1, Club Saito #800

  3. #20653
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I don't run on board glo with any of my singles or the 182 twin,they run fine like that.I have read some threads here tho and it seems to be a world of pain for some.If anyone here can recommend a proven setup you can run off the onboard flight pack i would be pleased to hear of it as i may need to run one on the 200r3 initially.It's going into a blackhorse 120 size texan and what with retracts and all i'll have my hands busy enough on the test flight without worrying about a deadstick,we have short runway approaches here.I've just run a litre of 20% nitro 15% klotz and 5% castor thru the engine and it's firing on all three above 4000rpm.Last run was at 6500 and i could take the glow stick i'd left on one cylinder off,no problems.Just how much bench time do you guys think i'll need for it to settle down a bit and does anyone have an approx main needle setting for the 170 or 200?.Reason i ask is that the engine test reviewer said he was running 4.75 turns out,figured that may be a typo?? but will want to start leaning it off shortly.Cheers
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  4. #20654
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    I don't run on board glo with any of my singles or the 182 twin,they run fine like that.I have read some threads here tho and it seems to be a world of pain for some.If anyone here can recommend a proven setup you can run off the onboard flight pack i would be pleased to hear of it as i may need to run one on the 200r3 initially.It's going into a blackhorse 120 size texan and what with retracts and all i'll have my hands busy enough on the test flight without worrying about a deadstick,we have short runway approaches here.I've just run a litre of 20% nitro 15% klotz and 5% castor thru the engine and it's firing on all three above 4000rpm.Last run was at 6500 and i could take the glow stick i'd left on one cylinder off,no problems.Just how much bench time do you guys think i'll need for it to settle down a bit and does anyone have an approx main needle setting for the 170 or 200?.Reason i ask is that the engine test reviewer said he was running 4.75 turns out,figured that may be a typo?? but will want to start leaning it off shortly.Cheers
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  5. #20655

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Barry Wetherell, are you the same Barry that used to work for Ansett in Cairns???
    Club Saito member 710

  6. #20656
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Sorry for the double post
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  7. #20657

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    NQ,... no i have never been to QLD, i day I hope perhps the wetherell was spelt differently, but don't hold me on that
    there are not many of us around, my grandfather he was an only male, came from UK in 1905, he only had 1 son, my dad, I am the only son from dad, I have 2 sons, but therein W.A
    Barry
    everyday you wake up is a good day

  8. #20658

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


    ORIGINAL: Old Fart

    Yes it's the lower left cylinder,just worried about doing some damage.Temps feel fine on the other two while running.A local magazine has run one and i can't get anywhere near what he says to do at the moment.They ran 20% nitro and 22% mix of syn and castor,against my ten and 18% mix at 5000 for the first fifteen minutes.I might hop out to the shed and up the nitro to 20% and set the rpm to five thousand,will up the oil to 20% as well.Not suffering from a voltage drop across multiple glow drivers am using a single stick 2200mh nimh on each cylinder.
    Howdy O.F. I think we all know what mag that is and who is the purveyor of b.s. also is. It would be wise to take what he says with a grain of salt. Let me guess what he said, Three quick primes two more flips , power on and a back flip against compression and it was singing a merry song. Probably copy and paste from a earier long forgotton review. Cheers the pope

  9. #20659
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    OF Saito considers it flyable after 40 minutes, if you have it on a test stand, fire it up and warm up until it will run with no glow power then slowly chase the rpm up leaning the HS needle about one click at a time. When it starts to sound ever so slightly labored it should slow on the next click toward lean. Back er up three clicks rich which should be about 50 rpm below the peak then set the LS needle. Easy Peazy, go fly at your normal 200 or 300 rich of peak setting. If you take the time to set the needles correctly after 40 minutes unitial run they will change very little if any over more time. Honest
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  10. #20660
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Cory, this one on the left fits all from the .50 through the 1.25.

    http://search.horizonhobby.com/index...d=131FB9D4D39B
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  11. #20661
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    OF- got the duplicate post for you.

    Hobbsy's break in directions are the way you should do it. The only thing I would suggest is to give it some wide open time except on the first 10 minutes. I start running mine hard as soon as they start smoothing out and needing leaning. I don't worry about letting them sing along at full throttle on the test stand. That's what they are meant to do. You can learn a lot about how it is breaking in by listening to it when wide open.
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It's a new day for Auburn" - Gus Malzahn

  12. #20662

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    On breaking / running in.  When I visited the Saito factory in Japan during my Malaysian Airline period of employment I gained a very valuable bit of advice. 
    They said that one should start the engine at the richest seting it would take (starting it at factory setting and richening was they way it was also explained) and run the engine at wide open throttle and increasing the engine speed gradually by leaning out.  This was for the first 10 oz of fuel.  (20% nitro 20% oil).  Successive runs were at leaner settings (they said the engine will tell you and it does) with runs (short) at max throttle setting (note no max rpm) for a couple of more tanks of fuel.  The engine should then be able to sustain transition without any problems.  Then go fly the engine while progressively leaning the engine to get the factory recommended rpm range etc. 
    Points to note.  \1/ I accept that the LS needle is set correctly at the factory (unless proven otherwise)
    2/ I accept that the HS neddle is set correctly and open it up from there

    With rebuilds I set at factory setting prior to start up.
    In all cases I note the start datum settings prior to any engine running.

    I have found Saito engines more than any other are engines that react to feel and sound.  I use a Tachometer for all engine runs and power set ups and listen to and observe the engine if you are attentive it will talk to you just like a bit round P&W or an offenhauser  
    Club Saito member 710

  13. #20663

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    On engine handling.  I have just acquired a 115 and yet again I see that the data we here in OZ are provided with in the box the engine comes in is different to that you guys get in the US.  Ours appears to be more detailed and it comes with you beaut stickers and publicity stuff as well.
    And while on that subject has any one laid hands on the new Saitos with the red rocker covers / heads.  I have only seen photos in one of our OZ magazines 
    Club Saito member 710

  14. #20664

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    G'day FNQFLYER,
    Those cnc, red anodised saito covers are a aftermarket part to add "bling" and supposedly help cooling.I"m not sure who manufactures them and there is a small write up on them in the latest aussie rag.
    Heres a link to them,
    http://www.hhq.com.au/store/cart.php...tegory_id=2741

    and here with a different name on them.

    http://secraft.net/shop/step1.php?number=909

    http://secraft.net/shop/step1.php?number=915

    http://secraft.net/shop/step1.php?number=978

    I must admit they do look good and i like the Ti/silver .
    Club Saito member #695

  15. #20665

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Saito manufacture them so I am informed but only for the bigger engines, I want some black ones for my Stinson Reliant or cream or red dependong on which a/c I am going to model it after.  I read BW's comments on them
     we once showed him some o/t a/c that "performed" some what different to what he said they were capable of.  I believe he attempted to compete in a couple of our events and "didn't quite perform according to reputation"
    Club Saito member 710

  16. #20666
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Our instructions say the first 10 minutes is a 1/4 to 1/3rd open not fully open, it doesn't make sense to run it stone cold at full throttle during the most important 10 minutes of its life.
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  17. #20667

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    As I said run it as rich as it will stand on full throttle.  This usually results in a Saito 65 for example running at around 4000rpm. At this RPM with a very rich mixture the engine doesn't get hot at all.  With the throttle wide open you then increase the rpm by leaning it.  This method gives max cooling, max lubrication for the first run.  Then you start with the ups and downs etc with the second and successive runs
    This works for us, BTB it is a modification (slightly) to the instructions given in our data.
    I am puzzled by the difference in operating instructions.  Ours come from Saito and the US ones appear to be generated by Horizon Hobbies.  This opens another can of worms when one starts playing with the gas engines but that is another matter totally on which I cannot yet comment based on experience that is   
    Club Saito member 710

  18. #20668
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    There is nothing in a Saitos construction that can benefit from heat cycling, also its much better to have the engine components close to their normal operating temp to seat in to each other at normal tolerances.
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  19. #20669
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hello guys and many many thanks for your comments,they were good and easier to understand
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  20. #20670
    Moderator Hobbsy's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    OF, are you being just a might facitious?[8D]
    Farmall 240 the final issue of the Farmall C, Super C, 200, 230 series.
    122 Cu. In. 22 hp. A small tractor that would do big work due to its 10x36 inch rear tires.

    As competition improves products, the differences between them get smaller and smaller

    Club Saito member #5

  21. #20671
    Moderator blw's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The only hard rule I go by is to keep the engine at, or below 4k on the first tank. It is already wearing, changing balances, tolerances, etc and getting everything mated together.
    The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

    "It's a new day for Auburn" - Gus Malzahn

  22. #20672
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    The 0.015 decompression shims for the Saito 150 were once offered by C&H Electronics, but they are no longer in business. Anybody have a suggestion where they might now be found now and purchased?[]
    I don\'\'t necessarily believe everything I say
    ...Marshall McLuhan...

  23. #20673
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    It is not a critical area.

    You can make a gasket from gasket material from the auto parts.

    Trim out the i.d. mount the cylinder and then trim off the outside with a #11 Exacto blade.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  24. #20674
    Old Fart's Avatar
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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    ME?
    Watch out for the ground eh?

  25. #20675

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    RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

    Hello,

    if someone is having trouble with Saito radial engines dropping a cylinder during flight then there is a cure for that. I had this problem with my FA90R3 radial dropping a cylinder during flight and with throttle positions from half throttle to full throttle. I am using Keleo exhaust ring. The reason is that the engine is not getting enough fuel in high rpms. I added a Perry oscillating fuel pump and adjusted the fuel pressure and the trouble is completely gone. Works very well and full power available all the time. Just to let you guys know if someone has the same problem. First I thought it was glowplug related problem but I tested that extensively with many different plug sets.


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