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Bro rc Surfer Custom Boards
04-17-2013, 03:40 AM
#151
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
float'er flat water test
Straight from my workbench onto the water............it looks very promising. Cant say I need to do anything more other than get it onto some good waves.
All running aspects look great !................very promising
The weather is 'fowl' at the moment so maybe only over the weekend............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrFJjBqPSRs Thanks to Daniel Thomson - from Tomo Surfboards for sparking the 'inspiration' of this build.
Straight from my workbench onto the water............it looks very promising. Cant say I need to do anything more other than get it onto some good waves.
All running aspects look great !................very promising
The weather is 'fowl' at the moment so maybe only over the weekend............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrFJjBqPSRs Thanks to Daniel Thomson - from Tomo Surfboards for sparking the 'inspiration' of this build.
Last edited by Justaddwata; 08-18-2013 at 12:01 AM.
04-17-2013, 11:56 PM
#152
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
A few pics of the completed 'float'er'.......especially the 'hull'........so few like showing the hulls of there boards ?
I haven't bothered with polishing the board 'until' I am happy with its overall performance, although from the few flat water tests so far - I reckon I will be polishing it soon.
The weather has cleared to-day with a light 'on shore' blowing down at Muizenberg, so I will get some surf test time in this afternoon. Unfortunately Lisa-Marie will be ice skating with the kids, so no video footage.
I have used the exact same housing size and layout as on previous boards.
The actual rail line is what is most interesting to me. This board could well be a 900mm plus (36") length board, if the tail and nose were extended to complete its traditional looking symmetrical lines. Effectively,what we have with this design - is a 'shorter board - yet- with the same effective rail length, as what a longer board offers.
The 'double diamond tail' (as Daniel calls it) is quite interesting. Even though the overall tail is wide - it is effectively split in two pin type tails. I have used the Bi-Fin with this build as I feel that the Bi-fin will have the same effect as on the Shred'A' which is digging the tail in as well as pulling the turning rail down.
I haven't bothered with polishing the board 'until' I am happy with its overall performance, although from the few flat water tests so far - I reckon I will be polishing it soon.
The weather has cleared to-day with a light 'on shore' blowing down at Muizenberg, so I will get some surf test time in this afternoon. Unfortunately Lisa-Marie will be ice skating with the kids, so no video footage.
I have used the exact same housing size and layout as on previous boards.
The actual rail line is what is most interesting to me. This board could well be a 900mm plus (36") length board, if the tail and nose were extended to complete its traditional looking symmetrical lines. Effectively,what we have with this design - is a 'shorter board - yet- with the same effective rail length, as what a longer board offers.
The 'double diamond tail' (as Daniel calls it) is quite interesting. Even though the overall tail is wide - it is effectively split in two pin type tails. I have used the Bi-Fin with this build as I feel that the Bi-fin will have the same effect as on the Shred'A' which is digging the tail in as well as pulling the turning rail down.
04-18-2013, 10:57 AM
#153
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
[size=3float'er Surf test ![/size]
Ran three packs in some 2ft face 'onshore' slop surf this afternoon : all the usual fundamentals were sorted i.e. power and steering system working well - good radio function ( no bind loss) - no water intrusion issues.
The board showed some good potential in the surf. The name 'float'er' is quite apt, as it seems to ride well on / over the white water (stable) - perhaps due to its wide tail.
When surfing the face: - it ran very smoothly - 'very responsive to steering' - pulls very nice, tight and responsive cut backs (sharp) - clean bottom turns -clean snappy lip turns... short board style of surfing.....
Its apparent that the square-re (wider) tail produces a quicker.sharper turn whereas the narrower/rounder tail produces more carving type turn.
It does not lean quite like the Shred'A" does...... definitely has a flatt'er looking ride.
Looking forward to getting it onto some good surf..............
Ran three packs in some 2ft face 'onshore' slop surf this afternoon : all the usual fundamentals were sorted i.e. power and steering system working well - good radio function ( no bind loss) - no water intrusion issues.
The board showed some good potential in the surf. The name 'float'er' is quite apt, as it seems to ride well on / over the white water (stable) - perhaps due to its wide tail.
When surfing the face: - it ran very smoothly - 'very responsive to steering' - pulls very nice, tight and responsive cut backs (sharp) - clean bottom turns -clean snappy lip turns... short board style of surfing.....
Its apparent that the square-re (wider) tail produces a quicker.sharper turn whereas the narrower/rounder tail produces more carving type turn.
It does not lean quite like the Shred'A" does...... definitely has a flatt'er looking ride.
Looking forward to getting it onto some good surf..............
04-19-2013, 12:23 AM
#154
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
A good question asked on another forum about the float'er board.
But what is the benefit of an RC Surfer having a longer effective rail length?....asked by BarrEls
My reply:
The boards 'effective rail length' is basically equal to a boats keel length.
As the board leans onto the rail when the turn is actuated, so it turns around that rails contact with the water. Like a tunnel hull racing boat would turn around its turning sponson. The more length of rail you are able to have in the water, the more effective and controlled the turn will be.
If you consider the picture/drawing below - the parts that are extended with black pen really have little/no function in a turn. Its the more outer portion of rail of the board, that will first come in contact with the water and effect the turn.
An rcSurf board turns more like when one is carving on a skateboard - you have to lean the rail of the board to turn it. We cannot however use the leverage/overhang of the kick-tail to execute a rotational turn, as we don't have the means to put weight on the tail or to distribute our weight. Like with skate boards - the longer board has better control - the shorter board is more sensitive in the turn.
This board could just as easily have been a 900mm (36") long board if I extended the nose and worked the tail down to a square or swallow tail.
Why then want a shorter board ? more cost effective...less weight - less drag- less wind effect - less surge effect in white water - can ride in smaller surf and tighter hollows.....etc
If you had to consider the Kyhoso boards cut away step along the length of the rails - I presume it was designed to enhance the turn by allowing the rail (at that portion) to dig deeper into the water, creating more length of rail, and improving its turning ability.
To sum it up - the shorter the board ( traditional shape) the less length of effective turning rail you have to work with. Imagine the length of board in the picture above being of a typical traditional symmetrical shape in its actual length. ( Red outline) You can see just how much 'less' length of effective rail you are left with.
From the little testing I have done with this board I can see that the turning effect 'with more rail length' is better. Smoother.
That is most probably why the bigger boards with wider tails ( square tail - swallow tails etc) have a better turning effect as mentioned by those running them.
Fortunately the Shred"A" does not have very spherical rails....straighter to a degree..........I might just try a build combining the Shred'A's front half with the floaters back half....
But what is the benefit of an RC Surfer having a longer effective rail length?....asked by BarrEls
My reply:
The boards 'effective rail length' is basically equal to a boats keel length.
As the board leans onto the rail when the turn is actuated, so it turns around that rails contact with the water. Like a tunnel hull racing boat would turn around its turning sponson. The more length of rail you are able to have in the water, the more effective and controlled the turn will be.
If you consider the picture/drawing below - the parts that are extended with black pen really have little/no function in a turn. Its the more outer portion of rail of the board, that will first come in contact with the water and effect the turn.
An rcSurf board turns more like when one is carving on a skateboard - you have to lean the rail of the board to turn it. We cannot however use the leverage/overhang of the kick-tail to execute a rotational turn, as we don't have the means to put weight on the tail or to distribute our weight. Like with skate boards - the longer board has better control - the shorter board is more sensitive in the turn.
This board could just as easily have been a 900mm (36") long board if I extended the nose and worked the tail down to a square or swallow tail.
Why then want a shorter board ? more cost effective...less weight - less drag- less wind effect - less surge effect in white water - can ride in smaller surf and tighter hollows.....etc
If you had to consider the Kyhoso boards cut away step along the length of the rails - I presume it was designed to enhance the turn by allowing the rail (at that portion) to dig deeper into the water, creating more length of rail, and improving its turning ability.
To sum it up - the shorter the board ( traditional shape) the less length of effective turning rail you have to work with. Imagine the length of board in the picture above being of a typical traditional symmetrical shape in its actual length. ( Red outline) You can see just how much 'less' length of effective rail you are left with.
From the little testing I have done with this board I can see that the turning effect 'with more rail length' is better. Smoother.
That is most probably why the bigger boards with wider tails ( square tail - swallow tails etc) have a better turning effect as mentioned by those running them.
Fortunately the Shred"A" does not have very spherical rails....straighter to a degree..........I might just try a build combining the Shred'A's front half with the floaters back half....
04-21-2013, 08:55 AM
#155
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
[size=4]float'er surf test[/size]
Howzit Guys !
After a few surf test attempts this week in on-shore sloppy surf, I finally got the [size=2]float'er[/size] into some decent clean wave face to make some fair assessments.
I must say - all in all - I am very happy with the boards performance.
It is not better or worse- but - certainly 'different' to the Shred'A' - a great board to have in my YPC quiver.
I'm looking forward to getting to know its abilities better as I surf it more.
The tide was extremely low, with plenty of kelp and rocks scattered all over the show to avoid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsb-6frofbY Characteristics:
Board specs: Glass over foam - 700mm x 210mm x 30mm - weight 2250 grams (5lbs) ready to surf - motor 3650/2450kv Leopard brushless - 120A ESC - 3s/5800mAh Lipo - 30mm plastic prop - Bro Surfer 330mm (13") high - glass and carbon core laminated with neoprene - Flexible body and limbs.
The name 'float'er' seems to be quite apt, as already I am getting to pull a few small floaters with this one.
The ride control is very accurate - predictable and fluid.
The board presents a very smooth ride on the wave face, showing how well the effective rails work, as you can observe the spray along the length of the board.
The wider tail has more drag, so does seem to slow the board down a touch and sap a few minutes of run time, compared to the Shred'A"
The float'er does not seem to have as much 3D ride (yaw- nose up tail down) as the Shred'A'l....but seems to have more of a short board feel of ride....hard to explain.
Lisa-Maries's take on the float'er is that it looks like it is 'glued' to the wave face............
Howzit Guys !
After a few surf test attempts this week in on-shore sloppy surf, I finally got the [size=2]float'er[/size] into some decent clean wave face to make some fair assessments.
I must say - all in all - I am very happy with the boards performance.
It is not better or worse- but - certainly 'different' to the Shred'A' - a great board to have in my YPC quiver.
I'm looking forward to getting to know its abilities better as I surf it more.
The tide was extremely low, with plenty of kelp and rocks scattered all over the show to avoid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsb-6frofbY Characteristics:
Board specs: Glass over foam - 700mm x 210mm x 30mm - weight 2250 grams (5lbs) ready to surf - motor 3650/2450kv Leopard brushless - 120A ESC - 3s/5800mAh Lipo - 30mm plastic prop - Bro Surfer 330mm (13") high - glass and carbon core laminated with neoprene - Flexible body and limbs.
The name 'float'er' seems to be quite apt, as already I am getting to pull a few small floaters with this one.
The ride control is very accurate - predictable and fluid.
The board presents a very smooth ride on the wave face, showing how well the effective rails work, as you can observe the spray along the length of the board.
The wider tail has more drag, so does seem to slow the board down a touch and sap a few minutes of run time, compared to the Shred'A"
The float'er does not seem to have as much 3D ride (yaw- nose up tail down) as the Shred'A'l....but seems to have more of a short board feel of ride....hard to explain.
Lisa-Maries's take on the float'er is that it looks like it is 'glued' to the wave face............
Last edited by Justaddwata; 08-18-2013 at 12:02 AM.
04-22-2013, 06:37 AM
#157
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
nice work Bro
Floater project surfin good the cutback/changin direction rail action caught my attention.. like your thoughts on the Kyo/nqd cutouts on the effective rail section too
All good Bro just sharin my 2c
bc
Floater project surfin good the cutback/changin direction rail action caught my attention.. like your thoughts on the Kyo/nqd cutouts on the effective rail section too
All good Bro just sharin my 2c
bc
04-22-2013, 11:36 AM
#158
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Thanks BC....the more we 'get' to understand about these boards......the more we will enjoy building them......and hopefully master surfing them.
Its a mission every time we seek to try something new, as mostly it calls for a complete board build from scratch. When I started out on the float'er project, it felt like a long shot, but something about the TOMO vanguard board caught my eye..........it just looked good / different and the theory made good sense.
I have certainly learnt a few more things with this build and look forward to getting to know the board a bit better as I surf it more.
As I said - not better - not worse - just 'different !......I like different........LOL
Have you found time to further your build ?
Bro'
Its a mission every time we seek to try something new, as mostly it calls for a complete board build from scratch. When I started out on the float'er project, it felt like a long shot, but something about the TOMO vanguard board caught my eye..........it just looked good / different and the theory made good sense.
I have certainly learnt a few more things with this build and look forward to getting to know the board a bit better as I surf it more.
As I said - not better - not worse - just 'different !......I like different........LOL
Have you found time to further your build ?
Bro'
04-23-2013, 12:14 AM
#159
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
hey Bro
i thought it might have been a long shot too was wondering how it would go... seems like the bi-fin works well in regards to a wide ass tail skippin out and hey 'if you never ever go you never ever know' and pretty impressed you put a full build into finding out if being diffrent would work.. then again it has worked and you get 5 stars from punter me.
last 5wks bin workin weekends helpin a girlfriend renovate a trashed house... she ran out of money to finish it... my old man made me work renovatin old houses not playin since i could walk i know a bit about it but end of day its just hard work... guess i got sucked in again helpin people that shouldn't take on stuff they can't do.
Anyway i hope to get back into my project soon as i get my life back on track.... bit short of cash for tax and car rego too and with a cranky girfriend havin a birthday now isn't helping either... LOL
Anyway again.... i've always run dual cooling for the motor and esc on my boards... i notice you have gone back to a single in to esc then motor then out the bottom. I think the suction on the outlet helps too.
just askin but was wondering if you noticed any heat diff between the dual or single systems in your builds
bc
i thought it might have been a long shot too was wondering how it would go... seems like the bi-fin works well in regards to a wide ass tail skippin out and hey 'if you never ever go you never ever know' and pretty impressed you put a full build into finding out if being diffrent would work.. then again it has worked and you get 5 stars from punter me.
last 5wks bin workin weekends helpin a girlfriend renovate a trashed house... she ran out of money to finish it... my old man made me work renovatin old houses not playin since i could walk i know a bit about it but end of day its just hard work... guess i got sucked in again helpin people that shouldn't take on stuff they can't do.
Anyway i hope to get back into my project soon as i get my life back on track.... bit short of cash for tax and car rego too and with a cranky girfriend havin a birthday now isn't helping either... LOL
Anyway again.... i've always run dual cooling for the motor and esc on my boards... i notice you have gone back to a single in to esc then motor then out the bottom. I think the suction on the outlet helps too.
just askin but was wondering if you noticed any heat diff between the dual or single systems in your builds
bc
. I really need to get into the water soon!
04-25-2013, 11:48 AM
#163
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Had a great afternoon session down at Muizenberg beach with the 'floater' - 2-4 ft faces - light offshore - lazy kind of crumbling wave with plenty of face to play on....I should start busking as beach entertainment .......the locals and tourists just love it ..........always fun.
The float'er certainly surfs well - but personally I still prefer the look and feel of the Shred'A' on the wave - the wider tail of the float'er seems to reduce the acceleration and it definitely drops the top speed and run time a tad- a good example of 'drag' (greater surface area) effect.
I am currently working hard to get my 'new Shred'A" that has been on the back burner, ready for some ATLANTIC ocean sizable surf this weekend.....they are predicting 3-4 ft ground swell, so we could be in for some great rcSurfing action.
This board has a few ' different tweaks' compared to my original Shred'A'......it will be interesting to compare the differences.
The float'er certainly surfs well - but personally I still prefer the look and feel of the Shred'A' on the wave - the wider tail of the float'er seems to reduce the acceleration and it definitely drops the top speed and run time a tad- a good example of 'drag' (greater surface area) effect.
I am currently working hard to get my 'new Shred'A" that has been on the back burner, ready for some ATLANTIC ocean sizable surf this weekend.....they are predicting 3-4 ft ground swell, so we could be in for some great rcSurfing action.
This board has a few ' different tweaks' compared to my original Shred'A'......it will be interesting to compare the differences.
04-27-2013, 03:10 AM
#164
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Shred'A' ready for the surf...
Flat water tests done......very stable/smooth on the water. Definitely quicker and faster than the float'er. The Shred'A''s narrower tail allows the tail to sink and the nose to lift - generating more pod out of the water.......less drag.
Its great using the exact same housing size and layout.......its a 5 minute job to move the electronics and hardware from one board to another.
Good surf predicted for the morning......Bro is ready 'to go'
Flat water tests done......very stable/smooth on the water. Definitely quicker and faster than the float'er. The Shred'A''s narrower tail allows the tail to sink and the nose to lift - generating more pod out of the water.......less drag.
Its great using the exact same housing size and layout.......its a 5 minute job to move the electronics and hardware from one board to another.
Good surf predicted for the morning......Bro is ready 'to go'
04-27-2013, 12:41 PM
#165
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Hit the Surf !
We'll - I just could not wait until to-morrow - Cemetery had a reasonable - lumpy - bumpy - wave going - so we decided to 'Surf it'........
Overall the board surfed well......could have added a few grams for the bumpy conditions - but it was good fun anyways...
The Shred'A" board has no fear of white water - simply floats over it.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6J-n2M5to
We'll - I just could not wait until to-morrow - Cemetery had a reasonable - lumpy - bumpy - wave going - so we decided to 'Surf it'........
Overall the board surfed well......could have added a few grams for the bumpy conditions - but it was good fun anyways...
The Shred'A" board has no fear of white water - simply floats over it.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe6J-n2M5to
Last edited by Justaddwata; 08-18-2013 at 12:03 AM.
04-28-2013, 11:44 AM
#167
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
WOW !......2 1/2 months in - over 5000 views listed for this RCU thread......man that is awesome......I am genuinely very pleased and encouraged to know that so many are enjoying the content. Thanks to all for the interest shown....its really cool to know that the info and video's are being enjoyed..... [8D]
Please ! always feel free to ask any questions you might have or to share your take and experience on any particular subject of rcSurfing on this forum ( ...for the better of all)
Use the PM option or e-mail me at [email protected] should you prefer.
Its all about "Sharing the STOKE !" with one another !......as we grow this great sport around the world.
Sundays Surfing session with the Shred'A' at Cemetery Beach !
Well!... 'bigger swell' with a clean offshore breeze was predicted for Sunday morning - BUT - that did not happen......the swell still produced some good face to surf and the side shore breeze was not to bad, however my tired eyes just crashed, trying to see so far out on the 'low tide' - after a few waves I called it in and decided to come back in the late afternoon to catch it on the rising 'high tide'.
It turned out to be another great session - a few good length of ride waves with some 'big wave' down the line charging style of surfing......ending with quite a gnarly shore break.....I am always amazed how Bro comes out 'unscathed'
Gently 'tweaking' the boards surf performance and am really happy with this boards overall ride......weighing in at 2.25 kg's ( 5lbs) - ready to Surf !
Sit back and Enjoy !......Bro'.......Sharing the STOKE !..... from Cape Town - sunny South Africa....pull in anytime !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fy1m9TdPxY
Please ! always feel free to ask any questions you might have or to share your take and experience on any particular subject of rcSurfing on this forum ( ...for the better of all)
Use the PM option or e-mail me at [email protected] should you prefer.
Its all about "Sharing the STOKE !" with one another !......as we grow this great sport around the world.
Sundays Surfing session with the Shred'A' at Cemetery Beach !
Well!... 'bigger swell' with a clean offshore breeze was predicted for Sunday morning - BUT - that did not happen......the swell still produced some good face to surf and the side shore breeze was not to bad, however my tired eyes just crashed, trying to see so far out on the 'low tide' - after a few waves I called it in and decided to come back in the late afternoon to catch it on the rising 'high tide'.
It turned out to be another great session - a few good length of ride waves with some 'big wave' down the line charging style of surfing......ending with quite a gnarly shore break.....I am always amazed how Bro comes out 'unscathed'
Gently 'tweaking' the boards surf performance and am really happy with this boards overall ride......weighing in at 2.25 kg's ( 5lbs) - ready to Surf !
Sit back and Enjoy !......Bro'.......Sharing the STOKE !..... from Cape Town - sunny South Africa....pull in anytime !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fy1m9TdPxY
Last edited by Justaddwata; 08-18-2013 at 12:03 AM.
04-29-2013, 11:29 AM
#168
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Establishing the optimum 'surfing' trim.....
discussing this topic is like uncovering the 'holy grail of rcSurfing...LOL.....very little on this topic is covered and shared...I reckon by now I have tried enough variables to share my opinion - a few ideas - pointers - & - solutions.....so here goes !......grab a beer it might be a long read....
Since getting involved in rcSurfing the 'fine trim' set up of the ******** has been a very 'grey' and frustrating area fro me, as the ********, still being a thrust driven boat fundamentally, however needs to perform in the varying ocean conditions as it surfs on/in a radiused surface area, rather than a flat surface....
Most all performance rcboats, even with perfect running surface hulls -optimum CG placement , running on flat water, still require some type of fine trim adjustment to optimize its running performance - whether it is shaping the back of the hull's running surface like with the FSVR inboard race boats - or adjusting the trim tabs and thrust angle at the back of a surface drive V bottom - or adjusting the thrust trim angle on a Cat Hull -or Outboard unit...'something needs to be trimed for it to be 'fine tuned'
On my outset in Jan 2012 when starting out to design / build my ********s, my ideal was to have minimum drag to create an as efficient hull as possible to achieve maximum run-times with the minimum of power. This is still one of my main 'objectives'' as the scale of economics is a real factor for most folk....but since .... I have humbly come to accept that there has to be some degree of compromise, as optimal performance is placed up there with the efficiency criteria.
To date, I have built and tested various types of ******** hull designs - V hulls - flat hulls - rocker hulls - wide tails - thin tails.....experimented with various CG'positions.....thrust angles...... various weight displacements....read many threads of what others have shared.......AND......in the final analysis, its seems evident that some type of 'final trim' method is needed to 'optimize the hulls performance.
Most all surface driven craft when setting out 'in motion' have to displace the water it is resting/traveling in, as it rides up onto the water surface. In doing this a 'water hump' is formed under the hull, which has to be overcome. This action of the nose lifting up and dropping down as the water hump travels down the length of the crafts hull only to be repeated from the nose (front) again, is commonly called 'porpoising' If the craft is not able to trim itself....this porpoising pattern can persist and effect the crafts optimal performance.
To overcome this porpoising effect - the vessel needs to be balanced so that when it is traveling forward, it is perfectly pivoting around its optimum CG without creating the dreaded 'water hump'
A few ways to overcome porpoising would be.
Increase dynamic lift - speeding up
Change the balance -move the CG forward
Change the angle of attack - adjusting the thrust angle
Trim the nose down -trimming the stern up.
All the above effects the 'balance' of the hull and in most cases work together to overcome 'porpoising.
In the case of the ******** we need to consider all the above - however we are limited in just how much we can apply.
Our speed needs to have a wide variable so we cant depend on the maximum dynamic lift that would be delivered at WOT.
Our CG is also critical to our balance on the wave and in the air.....to far forward would cause 'pearling' ( nose dives) an AFT CG of center is needed.
Even if the thrust angle is set at ZERO degrees it will still generate bow lift as it rotates around the CG.
SO !......the area we are left with and can change 'to a degree' is the stern lift. Adjusting the degree of stern 'lift' on a vessel ( board) has proven to be the easiest way to 'balance out' the craft and overcome the porpoise effect.
There are a number of ways to achieve an ********s stern ( tail ) lift...... basically one needs to create a deflection of sorts at the tail end which will direct the water flowing of the tail 'downward' - this will lift the tail ( for every action there is an opposite action) and lower the nose.
The challenge is to find that 'sweet spot' of balance - to little and the porpoising may be reduced but still be present - to much and the board will be plowing around sucking up ones precious amps.
Mmmmmmm.....so I shape the ideal degree of tail deflector (which ever method I chose to use)......test it on some flat water.....and all is good........no more porpoising.....well done !.....BUT....that is only half the battle one......for most, finding the mean average degree of deflection has been the way to go.
HOWEVER !
When we move from flat water to the ever varying ocean and its accompanying ever varying conditions like water surface - wind - wave shape.......our perfect balance is very likely the 'change' yet again....... reintroducing the dreaded porpoise (bounce) once again...........
Sea water has a different solidity - boards buoyancy changes - it bounces - if the water is a tad rough popping the nose up - it bounces - If the wind picks the nose up by a few degrees - it bounces - ridding on a vertical/radiused wave face moves the CG - it bounces ...Prop thrust and hold varies in the water - it bounces - Power output diminishes - it bounces.....in a nut shell..........each day will present varying degrees of conditions and the chances are that 'one particular' degree of deflection wont always be ideal.........
Moving weight around within the housing could help remedying the change, but most ********s don't have to much space or ability to move the battery around enough to effect the balance.
Adding extra weight within the housing could also be a solution to correcting the balance, but more weight slow the board down - reduces its agility and saps more amps - reducing run time.
SOLUTION:
May latest take has been to develop an 'ADJUSTABLE TRIM TAB' so that I can simply, by the turn of an Allen key - increase of decrease the degree of tail deflection to optimize the boards performance to best suite the conditions.
If the water gets bumpy and the board is bouncing around - increase it - if it smooths out later - decrease it. If the wind picks up and the nose if flighty - increase it - push the nose down and give it stick.....when the wind calms...decrease it.......If you need speed for some fast down the line screaming barrel rides .....decrease it.......if you want do some deep carving all over the face, especially in some tight sections.......increase it......
ULTIMATELY - like with most all performance rc Craft......we need to be able to adjust the boards trim effectively to be able to surf it optimally.
In my next post I will share the details/photo's with you as to how I have achieved an adjustable tail trim tab................................
Hey !.........hows your beer ?
discussing this topic is like uncovering the 'holy grail of rcSurfing...LOL.....very little on this topic is covered and shared...I reckon by now I have tried enough variables to share my opinion - a few ideas - pointers - & - solutions.....so here goes !......grab a beer it might be a long read....
Since getting involved in rcSurfing the 'fine trim' set up of the ******** has been a very 'grey' and frustrating area fro me, as the ********, still being a thrust driven boat fundamentally, however needs to perform in the varying ocean conditions as it surfs on/in a radiused surface area, rather than a flat surface....
Most all performance rcboats, even with perfect running surface hulls -optimum CG placement , running on flat water, still require some type of fine trim adjustment to optimize its running performance - whether it is shaping the back of the hull's running surface like with the FSVR inboard race boats - or adjusting the trim tabs and thrust angle at the back of a surface drive V bottom - or adjusting the thrust trim angle on a Cat Hull -or Outboard unit...'something needs to be trimed for it to be 'fine tuned'
On my outset in Jan 2012 when starting out to design / build my ********s, my ideal was to have minimum drag to create an as efficient hull as possible to achieve maximum run-times with the minimum of power. This is still one of my main 'objectives'' as the scale of economics is a real factor for most folk....but since .... I have humbly come to accept that there has to be some degree of compromise, as optimal performance is placed up there with the efficiency criteria.
To date, I have built and tested various types of ******** hull designs - V hulls - flat hulls - rocker hulls - wide tails - thin tails.....experimented with various CG'positions.....thrust angles...... various weight displacements....read many threads of what others have shared.......AND......in the final analysis, its seems evident that some type of 'final trim' method is needed to 'optimize the hulls performance.
Most all surface driven craft when setting out 'in motion' have to displace the water it is resting/traveling in, as it rides up onto the water surface. In doing this a 'water hump' is formed under the hull, which has to be overcome. This action of the nose lifting up and dropping down as the water hump travels down the length of the crafts hull only to be repeated from the nose (front) again, is commonly called 'porpoising' If the craft is not able to trim itself....this porpoising pattern can persist and effect the crafts optimal performance.
To overcome this porpoising effect - the vessel needs to be balanced so that when it is traveling forward, it is perfectly pivoting around its optimum CG without creating the dreaded 'water hump'
A few ways to overcome porpoising would be.
Increase dynamic lift - speeding up
Change the balance -move the CG forward
Change the angle of attack - adjusting the thrust angle
Trim the nose down -trimming the stern up.
All the above effects the 'balance' of the hull and in most cases work together to overcome 'porpoising.
In the case of the ******** we need to consider all the above - however we are limited in just how much we can apply.
Our speed needs to have a wide variable so we cant depend on the maximum dynamic lift that would be delivered at WOT.
Our CG is also critical to our balance on the wave and in the air.....to far forward would cause 'pearling' ( nose dives) an AFT CG of center is needed.
Even if the thrust angle is set at ZERO degrees it will still generate bow lift as it rotates around the CG.
SO !......the area we are left with and can change 'to a degree' is the stern lift. Adjusting the degree of stern 'lift' on a vessel ( board) has proven to be the easiest way to 'balance out' the craft and overcome the porpoise effect.
There are a number of ways to achieve an ********s stern ( tail ) lift...... basically one needs to create a deflection of sorts at the tail end which will direct the water flowing of the tail 'downward' - this will lift the tail ( for every action there is an opposite action) and lower the nose.
The challenge is to find that 'sweet spot' of balance - to little and the porpoising may be reduced but still be present - to much and the board will be plowing around sucking up ones precious amps.
Mmmmmmm.....so I shape the ideal degree of tail deflector (which ever method I chose to use)......test it on some flat water.....and all is good........no more porpoising.....well done !.....BUT....that is only half the battle one......for most, finding the mean average degree of deflection has been the way to go.
HOWEVER !
When we move from flat water to the ever varying ocean and its accompanying ever varying conditions like water surface - wind - wave shape.......our perfect balance is very likely the 'change' yet again....... reintroducing the dreaded porpoise (bounce) once again...........
Sea water has a different solidity - boards buoyancy changes - it bounces - if the water is a tad rough popping the nose up - it bounces - If the wind picks the nose up by a few degrees - it bounces - ridding on a vertical/radiused wave face moves the CG - it bounces ...Prop thrust and hold varies in the water - it bounces - Power output diminishes - it bounces.....in a nut shell..........each day will present varying degrees of conditions and the chances are that 'one particular' degree of deflection wont always be ideal.........
Moving weight around within the housing could help remedying the change, but most ********s don't have to much space or ability to move the battery around enough to effect the balance.
Adding extra weight within the housing could also be a solution to correcting the balance, but more weight slow the board down - reduces its agility and saps more amps - reducing run time.
SOLUTION:
May latest take has been to develop an 'ADJUSTABLE TRIM TAB' so that I can simply, by the turn of an Allen key - increase of decrease the degree of tail deflection to optimize the boards performance to best suite the conditions.
If the water gets bumpy and the board is bouncing around - increase it - if it smooths out later - decrease it. If the wind picks up and the nose if flighty - increase it - push the nose down and give it stick.....when the wind calms...decrease it.......If you need speed for some fast down the line screaming barrel rides .....decrease it.......if you want do some deep carving all over the face, especially in some tight sections.......increase it......
ULTIMATELY - like with most all performance rc Craft......we need to be able to adjust the boards trim effectively to be able to surf it optimally.
In my next post I will share the details/photo's with you as to how I have achieved an adjustable tail trim tab................................
Hey !.........hows your beer ?
04-30-2013, 01:26 AM
#170
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Howzit biketuna.....do I detect some 'suspense'.......LOL
Well its really quite simple......not much different to the rcboat type trim tabs.
Can be fitted on most all boards.....very simple to make up........
I first drilled a 120mm hole through the board at the tail and filled it with epoxy to create a plug - then drilled and taped a 5 mm thread for the 5mm grub screw - laid up 3 layers of 6 oz cloth (center layer at 45 degrees for added rigidity) cured with epoxy. Bonded the laminated reed onto the boards surface behind the rudder post with epoxy and tapered it off to be flush with the surface.......that's it.
Now I can trim it anytime any place in a 'tick'.............
Well its really quite simple......not much different to the rcboat type trim tabs.
Can be fitted on most all boards.....very simple to make up........
I first drilled a 120mm hole through the board at the tail and filled it with epoxy to create a plug - then drilled and taped a 5 mm thread for the 5mm grub screw - laid up 3 layers of 6 oz cloth (center layer at 45 degrees for added rigidity) cured with epoxy. Bonded the laminated reed onto the boards surface behind the rudder post with epoxy and tapered it off to be flush with the surface.......that's it.
Now I can trim it anytime any place in a 'tick'.............
04-30-2013, 05:03 AM
#171
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Hi Bro.
I was gunna show you a pic of my pod of 6layer 6oz glass to show i'm still happenin although very slowly... and how i cut the prop end of the pod a bit short but rekon i can get around it... and how i'm gunna lose a layer or two makin it more shapely too..... lol
But then i saw your post about variability and thought of Karl Hill and his adjustable tabs and leaning dude... and the fact real surfers that can move around their boards stillhave a quiver of boards to suit the variable wave's size and suck wise....
And then i saw the adjustable Bro tail.... now that is way cool and i'm just so wanting to stick something similar into what i'm doin right now...
All good Bro.... have a lot more to think about now and *** here is a pic of my my pod just for laughs.
bc
I was gunna show you a pic of my pod of 6layer 6oz glass to show i'm still happenin although very slowly... and how i cut the prop end of the pod a bit short but rekon i can get around it... and how i'm gunna lose a layer or two makin it more shapely too..... lol
But then i saw your post about variability and thought of Karl Hill and his adjustable tabs and leaning dude... and the fact real surfers that can move around their boards stillhave a quiver of boards to suit the variable wave's size and suck wise....
And then i saw the adjustable Bro tail.... now that is way cool and i'm just so wanting to stick something similar into what i'm doin right now...
All good Bro.... have a lot more to think about now and *** here is a pic of my my pod just for laughs.
bc
04-30-2013, 05:35 AM
#172
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Hey BC....that POD looks perfect.......well dome mate !
The ATT ( adjustable trim tab) is very cool.....I am now installing one to trim the prop talk.....
Bro'
The ATT ( adjustable trim tab) is very cool.....I am now installing one to trim the prop talk.....
Bro'
05-01-2013, 02:12 AM
#173
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Hi Bro.
realy likeyour ATT and thinkin big time how to incorporate it into my experiment......
Was thinkin a 20ft air landing tail first into the brine may rip it off.. oops!...andwas thinkin might share some thoughts with you (and others watchin) for perusal.....
On a boardsharks i was experimenting with i glued in some brass tube so i could use countersunk head bolts and nylock nuts to hold many types of tail designs.
I never got past this tail shape but was thinkin the tube/bolt system might allow the ATT to be replaced easily after it gets ripped off or maybe wedge type shapes could be made to suit and just screwed on without the adjuster screw?
Nuts and bolts add weight andare quite ugly, tubes glued in are time consuming toobut your idea is a beauty...
All good Bro just addin my 2c
realy likeyour ATT and thinkin big time how to incorporate it into my experiment......
Was thinkin a 20ft air landing tail first into the brine may rip it off.. oops!...andwas thinkin might share some thoughts with you (and others watchin) for perusal.....
On a boardsharks i was experimenting with i glued in some brass tube so i could use countersunk head bolts and nylock nuts to hold many types of tail designs.
I never got past this tail shape but was thinkin the tube/bolt system might allow the ATT to be replaced easily after it gets ripped off or maybe wedge type shapes could be made to suit and just screwed on without the adjuster screw?
Nuts and bolts add weight andare quite ugly, tubes glued in are time consuming toobut your idea is a beauty...
All good Bro just addin my 2c
05-01-2013, 06:46 AM
#174
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Howzit BC.....any breakage in rcSurfing is possible.....but I don't think it is likely to be ripped of.....I'll be sure to put thenm through their paces.
I've added a 'torque tab' which is also working well.
Its really cool to be able to make the 'quick' change to the boards trim.......I'm going to change from grub screws to knurled heads so that I don't need an Allen key.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhBkaMYjcqA
I've added a 'torque tab' which is also working well.
Its really cool to be able to make the 'quick' change to the boards trim.......I'm going to change from grub screws to knurled heads so that I don't need an Allen key.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhBkaMYjcqA
Last edited by Justaddwata; 08-18-2013 at 12:04 AM.
05-02-2013, 01:51 AM
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RE: Bro ********'s Custom Boards
Hey Bro i never thought about a torque adjuster ha just thought it was like riding a BMW motorbike and adjusting for the torque roll through the corners..
rc surfing was kinda simple till you came around hey........ lol
All Good Bro
rc surfing was kinda simple till you came around hey........ lol
All Good Bro