PCM fail safe. Far more usefull on a plane doing Zero MPH than on something doing 200+.

All props are dangerous, if you find yourself in a situation where you have to avoid one, would anyone prefere it be moveing at them at 200 MPH?


My aunt has balls!

For the plane to actually level itself out of a hover by itself..that would require some type of gyro/autopilot system.

Thats why you set fail safe to hold and low idle

Certainly all aircraft can fail at any time and cause significant damage, the question is what is a greater risk to the pilots standing on the flight line?

1. Can a guy doin 100mph pass down the runway make a mistake and go barreling into someone at that speed kill the person.... sure, this is something that I have and we all have seen a lot (except for the death part )

2. Can a 40%er that is hovering near the flight line lose control (dont give me some crap that it will just plop down), yes you can lose control, instinct will tell you to push the throttle. Now you just fell over on your back low altitude, lots of power attempting to get out of it, and that big 32" prop puts a nice nick into someones forehead. Is that any worse than the first scenario... no.

They are in essence equivelent risk to the other fliers on the flight line.

A pilot with a little sense should not be doing either of those things, since it potentially puts someone else at risk.

Hovering should not be singled out, there are a lot of things that are extremely dangerous (hand launching from the pits over the flight line is one that comes to mind.... dont ask!!).

Point is do what you want to do, but do it safely and intelligently. If you are learning to hover (of fly for that matter) you need to be extra cautious about safety.

ok now my .02 I am starting my fifth year now and have been to a few giant scale flyins, one imac contest, and visited just a couple other fields besides my "home" field. I have ALWAYS enjoyed watching someone more skilled than me fly and dont even think of flying at this time. I have often wondered what is going on in the heads of some of these people that must fly while some of the best pilots in the country are "putting on a show" Besides I would not want to pay for some 40% plane i never even flew. I have a couple 33%s and am finaly getting this torque roll thing somewhat. Ive seen the top guys kind of hog the runway some but that is what the majority wants to see, not many people like "the pattern" over and over again. Anyway I think that at imaa events a schedule would work where 3d'rs had a half hour then everyone else an hour then repeat but if there were a lot of 3d'rs they would have to alternat time frames. It can be a little intimidating at bigger ones to actually get up on the flight line but for me it has nothing to do with flight style but rather wanting to watch the best pilots and sometimes it never ends. The schedule could be made aware to flyers and spectators then we could all know when to go take that restroom break, only problem with that is now your chance of getting hit while in the portajohn just went up.lol

I just wanted to make clear that I dont mind flying with one or two planes hovering but at the bigger events it appears thats all that goes on and I feel like I would be the odd man out if I were to go and fly fairly normal aerobatics. Maybe thats not true but that was basically the case at Dayton a couple years back. It was real foggy and basiclly take off into an instant hover. tr, harrier land was all you COULD do. When the fog finnaly lifted things didnt really change untill the "half time show". Im not complaning, just stating. The weather dictated that day but I get the impression from pics that some events are like that no matter the weather. Oh and Im not for a schedule Im for getting to the point that im the guy out there putting on the show. After I posted that last one it sounded way to much like another #%*@ rule.

oh what a nice day it is. the weather is butiful and im going to fly.

LOL!

Good idea Roadracer!

It is ironic that no one seems to recognize that our hobby has actually become so divergent that devotees of one aspect of the hobby are no longer relating to devotees of other aspects of the hobby. Perhaps new clubs should be formed to cater to the interests of certain aspects only.

I once heard of a club in South Carolina that banned the use of tuned pipes and retracts at their field. They hated pattern flyers so much that the measure was passed overwhelmingly. Naturally, there were no pattern flyers to contend with after the rules went into effect. This was in the early eighties. Were they wrong to do so? I don't believe so. Just as all of the hotshots could form their own club and ban scale models of warbirds and high wing floaters - if they so chose to do so. <G>

Of course, we should realize that we are all a bunch of silly-willies playing with our toy airplanes. They would probably see no difference between any of us.

I would fix them..... I use mufflers not tuned pipes (4 stroke) and all my pattern ships use fixed gear.... LOL

My opinion on the matter...

I think that doing 3d or airshows for crowds is cool. I notice at our club people fly in the pattern and never hover over the runway. Whenever we have a "big" 40% fly we usually give him the sky to himself. That way hes got the whole area to himself. To me its fine. I can see what your saying about people getting close to the planes, as long as its just the pilot it seems okay to me, there plane, there life. I think people have enough sense to say when enough is enough.

I fly at my school and usually with just one friend, so we get the air to ourselves and go by our rules.

i say everyone can come up with a solution. once again there are no problems only soulutions. and my solution is. everyone grab ur plane and lets fly. it makes me smile when i fly. so the heck with mean people. just fly. i cant fly this weekend i got to go race. and its supposed to rain saturday. try dragging ur knee in the rain. oh what fun. so u gys go fly for me and smile. ill probably be wet. lets hope i stay on two wheels. cya and fly.

WOW! HOLY COW! If I didn't have an opinion I'd have stopped reading a long time ago....

No one seems to have mentioned what *I* perceive as the real problem. And I don't think it is hovering, torque rolling or the like. The real problem is when that is essentially ALL one's flight consists of. The respect and courtesy thing goes BOTH ways. I have been to fly-ins where there are 4 pilot's stations and all it takes is 1 pilot with his 40% cheeseburger plane doing hover/torque roll/waterfall/harrier on EVERY pass to make flying a regular pattern with ANY other type of plane a pain! The fact is, I would LOVE to be able to torque roll and hover. I can't and marvel at those who can. But when that's ALL you do in your flight, it's MUCHO ANNOYING and DISCOURTEOUS to ALL other pilots in the air. Most every ship capable of this is a GS somethingorother with a big engine and prop. Hovering over the runway means HIS engine din drowns out all others. What I am saying here is if you are the ONLY one in the air, go for it! If there are others in the air and they are not flying the same pattern you are, have some courtesy and give THEM the runway too....

Hovering over the runway and if anyone complains, do a rudder toucher on their head!!! Ha-Hee-Hee!!!

I do love these threads sooooo!

Good day, happy Friday, and happy hovering!!!


Mark

PS: Could this thread be moved into the Clubhouse? It has more the sound of a general gripe than something relating to furthering the sport of aerobatics and 3D which this forum is really for. Thanks!

I think another point has been missed.

Hovering, like any other skill takes practice. If I decide I'm going to work on a maneuver, you'll probably see me doing several flights of just that one maneuver.

I remember when I first completed a rolling circle, it was all I practiced until I was comfortable. After the 3rd weekend of rolling circles, someone complained that that was all I was doing and couldn't I do some 'normal' circuits. Like I was there simply to entertain them?

I've heard similar complaints about pattern flyers, same flight every time... boring. Some even seem to get annoyed at this repetition and, imho, begin inventing reasons to complain. The most common invented complain is "it's not safe because of blah blah...", generally uttered from someone who hasn't noticed that others hide behind picnic tables when they fly.

I do notice it's generally the 'experienced' poor or 'seldom' flyers who do the most complaining.

Same complaints when I started flying heli. Too noisy, too close, flightpath too unpredictable, unsafe etc. etc.....
Today we're a fully integrated club (same flightline, no special rules for heli) and no problems involving helis to date (over 4 years). Now they mutter because I choose to fly my plane in a similar envelope as a heli.

"it jus t'aint nat'ral {drool} ya wann fly like dat, get one a dem whirleybird thingies {scratch}" :stupid:

Can773, this was in the days when ALL pattern ships used two-stroke piped engines and retracts, but you probably knew that.

I could never understand the hostility between factions in R/C, but I see the same thing in ham radio. The code guys like everybody (generally), but the SSB guys don't like the code guys and the AM guys, etc.

3D flight in an of itself is not dangerous. Hovering over the runway is not dangerous. The problem I have with the fad these days is those people walking out and touching or grabbing the hovering aircraft.

I fly big airplanes, I fly jets, I fly helicopters, etc. The MAIN thing we all need to do is communicate. The guy that yells at someone for hovering over the runway while he's doing it, is more dangerous than the guy doing the flying.

Act like adults, and TALK with people at a proper time, and you'll be amazed at what can be accomplished.

Doug Cronkhite
Team JR

Agreed. The first time I saw this was on a promo video for Morris hobbies. First thing I thought, you couldn't pay me enough to do that, no matter who's flying!

Hi all-

Just a few quick notes from my perspective....

I think the bottom like is that people need to realize how their actions affect others. This goes for ALL types of R/C pilots. Electrics, racers, 3D, IMAC, Jets, sport, etc etc etc.

The diversity of this sport has certainly grown and makes for a lot of different types of flying.

As Ted P (TRP) posted, our club recently instituted some rules on hovering. They were put there to protect the safety of members.

Let me explain further - Our club consists of 400 members. Making each one happy is not an easy task at times. Some want time so that they can fly alone, have the frequency to themselves all day, etc. At a busy club, that is not necessarily possible. However, when people are inconsiderate, such as hovering 20 feet in front of a sport pilot, or doing a mock race in which they fly over the runway while others are flying, that's inconsiderate of the others flying around them. For one, the guys racing over the runway were already violating rules (no low passes over runway) and the hovering over the runway in front of people caused a new rule to be made.

What we did for hovering is allow them to hover over the runway while no one is present, as long as they do not fly further in than the center of the runway. If another pilot comes out to fly, they have to push it out over the grass (~100 ft away). If they have the consent of one other pilot, they can hover close in. Also, up to three pilots can hover at a time if they are the only ones in the air, as long as the aircaft maintain maximum separation on the runway. Part of the reason for pushing the planes out is noise. What we found happening is that because the guys were hovering close-in while others were flying, the pilots could not hear others calling "Take off" or "Landing", no matter how loud they yelled. This is certainly a safety issue. When someone's trying to land and there is a plane hovering in the way, that's a problem.

Likewise, hovering over someone videoing or touching tails while standing underneath aircraft are situations we have encountered which are certainly not safe! We would like to keep our club as long as possible and this jeopardizes that.

Some of our jet guys took the initiative to write articles for our newsletter and inform the members of things surrounding them - safety (25 ft startup rule), etc. I believe it is our responsibility as pilots to inform others of the aircraft we are flying and our intentions, along with considering how our actions affect others .

Regards,
Michael Luvara
VP, SCCMAS
www.sccmas.org

What if it did glitch on the runway?
What if it did fly to the crowd?
What if it plopped itself down?
What if a jet glitches hundreds of feet high?
What if it flies straight down?
What if it lands in the crowd?
What if the most experienced guy in the world, has a structural failure in a small trainer?
What if a microscopic crack in a servo gear grows untill it strip, crashing the plane?
What if I trip on a stair, fall back, and break my arms legs and spine?

Anything could happen, any time, anywhere! So I don't think that argueing if it is safe to hover has any point. As everyone said before. Just say 'excuse me, do you think I could have a little flight to myself to practise some hovering?' There you go, problem solved. (As long as you don't do it every two minutes!?
My 2 cents in there too!
Robert.
Keep safe!

Awww, that makes it too easy.

bla bla bla. oh my this will never end. hover, fly, pattern, do what u want. glad i dont turn this thing on much any more. i could not imagine if u gys flew scale aircraft. oh my god. think of the strories then. what if i walk across the street and get hit by a car. could happen. will u quit walking across the street. maybe they will treat model planes like guns. they want to try more gun control and ban them. cause they kill. maybe we should ban planes. and hair dryers by the sink. hay what about cars. look how dangerous it is to drive on the road. ill remember all this the next time i try to hover my truck in the passing lane. ill make sure and move over. untill i got involved with planes. ive never herd so many people complain and gripe. the gys that fly real airplanes at one of the fields dont get like this. ill bet thats dangerous too. maybe they should quit flying real airplanes. lets ban them. cause what if what if. oh my what if they crash them. oh i just stubbed my toe on my desk. im getting rid of it its too dangerous. maybe the gys that like to hover should get there own field to just hover. then when someone else comes in to fly some other way. they can wine and cry. and boot them out. but what if theres a hole in the field. the gy trips and hurts him self. lets ban holes in the field. it could be dangerous. what in this world isnt dangerous. just waking up in the morning and going to work is dangerous. hay theres the idea. lets ban work so we can go fly more. have fun everyone. this is the craziest thing ive seen. by all. cant wait to see what else is written. i dont know whats more fun watching women at a store fight over a shirt or watch this. :stupid: :stupid:

History is filled wtih what if's. Can't live life in fear, just go and do your thing. Stay safe and happy flying

Lets end with this one with Roadracers idea; Lets ban work so we can all go fly!

The End

John Wells

Please close this, it has gotten way off track, and away from my original question. Sorry I asked. Some of you dudes need to chill out a bit. WOW.