Hey guys/gals....im new to this forum so please be patient with me here. Ive been in R/C for about 18 years, mostly flying stuff that is fast, i do have a Super Sportster 90/120, yeaaa go ahead and laugh, its old but not many flights on it at all,still looks like new, i also fly 60 size heli's....im looking into getting a 3D plane, there are SO MANY to choose from. I really like the looks of the Funtana, but i see there are a LOT of people ranting about tip stalling, ailerons and such coming off in flight ect ect, i do understand that when something is a pretty new design that there can be some issues with it, thus from what ive been reading and bunches of it that there 'might' be issues with the Funtana, maybe not, but its been enough from what i have seen that im a bit skidish of looking at getting one of those right now. I know that im probably going to get a bunch of different answers here as to a plane to look at or choose. I will tell you what ive got to work with 'IF' it will work without me having to buy another engine, ive got a YS 45 with header and tune pipe and also a YS 61 with a pipe, I also have a Super Tiger 90. And i do understand that the 3D planes are made light and are not meant for speed for the most part.

Ive never flown any 3D planes just so that you do understand that, just as all of you had not at some point in time. What would be your suggestions as to a plane of choice that would be a really good solid plane that is tried, true and proven ?

Go over to www.ohiomodelplanes.com and look at the profiles. These are great first 3D planes and the 47 inch Edge would be a good candidate for your .45. The 65 inch Yak would be even better and would be a good candidate for your .61.

Hey Scott, thanks buddy. I was wondering as i have been looking as i said, and there are so many, i seen this one and was wondering about it....good/bad ? You know anything about this one, heard anything about it, would it be a 3D plane ?

http://www.richmondrc.com/vma/storec...20e160quad.htm

I've only seen that model in ads so I really can't say if it would be a good 3D airplane or not.

What I can say is that the OMP planes are GREAT 3D planes and also are some of the best choices for a 3D "trainer" that you can get. No they aint as sexy as something with a full fuse but they are easy to build and once you fly one you won't care that the fuse is a board! I have 2 of the 47 inch Edges and a couple of friends have the 80 inch Edges and they all fly great and will do EVERY trick in the book.

Shogun,

Since you know about 3D what prop would you recomend for a OS 46FX, I'm new to this 3D stuff.
I have the 47 inch OMP edge.

anyways thanks for any advice

Now this is one question I CAN ansswer!

I have 2 of the Edges, one has a Saito .72 with an APC 14 x 4W and it's a rocket, great fun and will do it all.

The other one has a .46FX on it and I tried just about every prop you can imagine on it. hands down my favorite is the APC 11 x 4 when running 15% fuel. I know some guys are running the 12.75 x 3.75 but I didn't like the slow spool up I had with it, even 30% nitro didn't seem to help in my case. With the 11 x 4 my edge flys fast enough to almost flutter the surfaces but can slow to a crawl and when you need the thrust the prop spools up so quick it's no trouble lock the plane into a hover, pullout isn't ballistic but it is there, after all this is a .46.

Thanks

Thanks, i seen one but dont know about it, its the ultra stick 60, its a high wing though, but the ailerons on it are huge and they say its a 3der, you know anything about it ?

The US is a nice plane but IMO is no great 3D'er. It's got a relatively small rudder that hinders it's 3D performance. Aside from that it really is a pretty nice plane and can do a lot of crazy aerobatics, if your up too it.

But as far as 3D goes it woudn't be my first choice.

How about a Flip 3D with that YS 45. The Flip is a pure 3D plane. If you want to learn to hover, then the small UCD with the YS 45.

You pick up an advantage with the YS, it has a pump, allowing the tank to sit on the CG. Where alot of people run into problems with their 1st 3D bird, is balance. To get them real tricky, they move the CG back, however it becomes so squirly it is difficult to land. The YS with the pump solves the problem.

I do not find the scale looking planes are very good 3D plane, until you get to the 120 size birds and larger. It comes down to a power to weight issue. The scale birds are nice looking, however heavy compared to a pure 3D plane or Profile.

You may not like the look of a Profile, however they will teach you alot, kinda how a Stick teachs you things a trainer will not. Just pick a profile, it really doesn't matter now.

On the prop question, since I'm already typing...........APC 11-4 is a great prop. Also try the 11.5-4 APC. It has a wide blade and spins up fast and throws a little more air than the 11-4. For pure hovering, the APC 12.25-3.75 works great. As mentioned before, it takes time to spool up, but you may be able to put the transmitter down and the plane may just hang there.

Based off the motors you currently own, the YS 45 would be the best possible 3D motor. I ran one on a ZN Line Madness and it did great. The Madness is no longer available, however the Flip is it's Brother.

Madness 5.5 lbs with a YS 45 on the YS pipe, 30% Heli fuel, APC 11.5-4. And the Flip is flying with a Irvine 53 or OS 50 Heli, don't remeber, about the same weight, APC 12.25-3.75.

thats a good lookin plane there YNOT.

So, im gonna ask a stupid question here from the two of you, well ive always been told the only stupid question is the one that you dont ask LOL.

Ok, as you know im new to this pattern/3d planes ok. In the planes ive been looking at just as the ultra stick and it says on the box that its a 3d plane as to where you said its not a good one....what determines it to be a 3d plane, i know the control surfaces on them appear to be very large and that makes sense as to why, but what determines it it be classified as a 3d plane. I also understand the power to weight ratio deal also. reason im asking is, ive seen some that are described to be 3d planes and some of them are mid wing and some are high wing

I think the term "3D" is something that is subjective and the hobby marketing guru's learned that if they jump on the bandwagon and label everything 3D it will sell. Well a great many of the planes that are out on the market that are labeled as 3D are marginal at best in their capabilities. 3D is the largest growing segment of the RC community and the marketers are trying to cash in on it and it shows.

A good example is the Great Planes UcanDo3D. I had one, flies great but it's marginal at many of the 3D maneuvers, does some really well at the expense of others. That's pretty typical of most of the ARF's you can buy right now. The only thing I can advise you on is to ask lot's of questions and READ everythig you can about a 3D type of model before you plunk down the cash to buy one.

As to what makes a 3D plae a 3D plane.....

A good 3D design will be stable at very high angles of attack and due to it's lite wing loading will be very resistant to stalling at slow speeds. In fact many of the good designs almost refuse to stall and this makes for very interesting maneuvering possibilities. Once you have those characteristics there is the issue of neutral stability. In other words it goes where you point it, very much like a pattern plane but becuase of it's abaility to stall so softly you can do seemingly impossible things like hovering and flipping nose over tail with no fear of loosing it at any time, especially down LOW. Most planes are simply too heavy and will stall and snap rather than float through a 3D maneuver.

The control surfaces are very large for a reason, when the plane is stalled there is little to no air flowing over the wing and tail other than that comming off the prop. Think of 3D planes as using their sufraces to "thrust vector" rather than just change the pitch/roll/yaw of the plane, this is what sets a 3D design apart from non 3D designs.

Unfortunately this all comes at a price. The biggest problem that seems to get most guys is in the set up of a 3D plane. You simply can't buy a 3D plane and build it out of the box and expect it to perform on it's first outing. There are a few that get lucky but most will require a LOT of testing/adjusting and triming to get them to fly they way their owners want them to. Most require adjustments to the engine up/down/right thrust, lateral balance, CG, all up weight, control throws, radio set up, engines/props.

I think the biggest travesty is that there are too many people that beleive that this stuff is easy and all they have to do is just buy one and stick it together according to the manufacturers instructions and they will be there 3D'ing with the best.

It's not easy and it's a LOT of work to get one of these plaes to fly the way you want it too. I like it because it's a challenge to do well and If you like to tinker and change things thisstuff is right up your alley, if you just want to go fly something stick with what has always worked, 4 Stars and Sticks are a good choice.

VERY good information. all of what you explained made sense and is what i was in the mind set of already from what ive been reading....like i said there are so many. NO, i do not believe nor did i think that it is easy or that it is going to fly that way and be able to do the things with it right out of the box. If it was easy then i would not be flying R/C Heli's. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me, you have been really informative. Im sure i will be asking about some planes and stuff when i see something that catches me eye, thanks again.

Hey Dan, sorry if I came off as a little gruff there....didn't mean for it to read that way!

Unfortunately there are a lot of guys that think you should be able to have an insta3duberplane because the box says so and then when it doesn't work they way they think it should they get mad and rant and rave all over the net and at the field about how they were hosed.

If your into helis then your a tinkerer. I know because I worked on the real thing for many years and they are every bit as maintenence intensive as the models....or is it the other way around....??

3D flying is the biggest challenge that this hobby can offer(with the possible exception of helis) and the payoff is very rewarding when you finally get it all dailed in and flying the way it's suppossed to.

Happy flying!

Dan_nO,

I'm in the same boat as you; long-time modeler and R/C pilot, looking for something new to try. I thought the helicopters would scratch that itch forever; but after twelve years, they too have become ho-hum.

Like you, I thought the Ultra Stik would be as good as anything for 3D. I ran across one in the LHS last week and bought it. It is a good kit and goes together well. Much of the hardware needs replacing, IMO, but that is normal for most ARFs.

But once you begin studying this style of flying, certain trends become evident. Scott did an excellent job of explaining it, and I certainly cannot speak from experience since I haven't even got my plane finished yet! However, just look closely at the top-rated models; they are all, without exception, very "short-coupled". That is, almost as long in front of the CG as behind it. The Ultra Stik, with its quad flaps, will no doubt be extremely agile. But it just will not be able to rotate around the CG axis as quickly or cleanly as the shorter-tail designs.

At least, that's the way it seems to me.

At first, I wanted nothing to do with a profile model. I had one of those yucky Thunder Tiger "Fun Fly Tigers" a few years ago, and it was crap. But the more I look into this, the more I realize a profile model is the smart choice for learning this game.

I'm looking forward to flying my Ultra Stik, and learning the intricacies of the quad flaps. But when the ExtremeFlight profile Edge becomes available again (December, they say), I'll probably get one. I have the ExtremeFlight Yak-54, and it is hands-down the BEST quality ARF I have ever seen.

One more thing I would like add,

Ask for help. And I don't mean in here. Sure you can pick up alot of info, however go find a pilot flying 3D.

I have hooked up with several people from RCU showing and teaching them 3D. They contacted me. I have gone to their field or they come to mine. Bonus, I have made some really good friends that way and now have additional places to fly.

The planes we have available now help alot, however a little instruction would help a bunch. I wish someone would have taught me, however 12 years ago there was no 3D, only us "CRAZY" people who flew in a different way.

If you are unable to locate a person via the net, go to some different flying fields, even if you have to drive for 2 hours. Go watch the pilots, see if there is one hovering or doing 3D and ask for some help. If you just find someone like yourself learning 3D, yall work together.

I do recomend flying 3D with someone else. It pushes you better. Kyle (Hovermaster) and I have been flying buddies for 5 years now. We push each other very hard, trying to out do each other. A few birds have been lost, however the skills have improved dramaticly for both of us. However, I still kick his ass.

Showgun, i in no way took what you said as being brash or anything else, it was the WELL SPOKEN TRUTH !!! I looked at the Ultra Stick, its a high wing so to speak ? Im looking really hard at the Hanger 9 Twist 3D.....what about it Showgun ?

I cant remember the other two of ya's names as the window closes when replying lol, but thanks for all of you being here and helping and giving advice, it really means a lot !

funny you should ask as I got the chance to fly one last night. We have a about a half a dozen of them arounf here in Omaha but I never seem to be at the field when they guys have them out....go figure....

The one we were flying last night had a super tiger .45 on it and an APC 12.75 x 3.75 prop. The engine is a bit on the heavy side and it resulted in a nose heavy plane as well but even with that I could tell it had potential. At $95 a peice you could afford to smash a few before going bankrupt!

It's a nice plane and I would say it's definately a better first choice than an Ultra Stick for 3D style flying. I still think my OMP Edge is a much better flyer though but it's a kit and this is an ARF that can be bought and flying for less money.

If you are really interested in 3D I can't say this enough. Get a simulator...if you don't have one. If you have Realflight G2...it's great, but NOT for 3D.

Get Ikarus[link=http://www.aeroflypro.com/] Aerofly Pro[/link], worth EVERY penny as a 3D teaching aid. G2 can be modifies to some extent but the planes in AFP stall much more realistically and require very little in the way of adjustments to get them to perform as desired.

Heya Showgun ! Wellll, so you think the Twist is worth a shot huh....i like the looks of it, and yea from looking at some of the others and the prices, i was kind of thinking the same thing you are, not to bad. So the ST45 made it noise heavy, hmmmmm, with the engine rating i wouldnt have thought that, ive got a YS 45 and also a YS 61....I dont know what the weight specs are on the ST45, i think on the YS its about 14+ ounces.....i think ONCE i can find one of the Twist's i will get one and try it...seems its out of stock a lot of places, i called a couple of hobby shops here and they said they dont have them in stock, that they cant keep them in stock, seems its a pretty hot seller right now. I understand what your telling me about the flight sim to learn and help as a teaching aide, i have never used one of them, and i learned to hover my heli and all without one, not saying that it wouldnt have made it easier as im sure it would have, but i had a good guy here to work with me on the heli stuff.....it was a WHOLE different ball game learning to get one of them up let me tell ya, ive got a long ways to go with it yet though, i can hover fine, now ive got to start with noise in hover and learn that...then on to forward flight i guess. Ill get there, just keep flying and learning is all.

I appreciate all of the info you have given me...and if you think that the Twist is worth a shot, ill go get one and see.....think its a good one to start out with ?

The twist is definately a fun little plane and you simply can't beat the price. The one thing I noticed about helis is that if you get in trouble in a hover you can jam the throttle and climb or at least the roll/pitch response is always there and you can usually counter what the heli does and get it back to a hover. An airplane that is in a hover doesn't react like a heli and you are going to need the practice to get used to it. I have hovered a bunch of planes and when they have the right engine/prop and control throws/balance it's really not hard to do. If those things are not right and your not sure which way to push the stick immediately you will dork it, that's where the sim becomes so valuable.

I think my buddy could have moved some things around to get the balance in on his Twist so I wasn't knocking the ST he had one it. He's also new to RC and is still learning about balance and hasn't really dailed the plane in yet, even with that it flew pretty good and I got some nice hovers out of it. Other maneuvers were pretty good too but it was apparent that moving the balance back would help quite a bit with the 3D stuff, like water falls and inverted harriers.