George, I totally disagree with that statement. The Wild Hare Extra (in my opinion) is 10 times the airplane, not only for high alpha, but also for precision flying. Just my .02

Ditto, I have flown both and the Vision is a very hard plane to snap.... high speed walls are possible showing the snap resistance...
MUCH tighter inside and outside loops... the Edge wanted to snap out without much elevator.

They both come in about the same weight 17 lbs stock... but the Vision is a bit sweeter flying' plane.

Dennis.... Don't think it was me. I haven't posted a snap problem with the W/H before this one. I just had a problem with mine at slow speed, So I kept the speed up and used air brakes or spoilers. By putting a small load on the wing it seemed to help.

I haven't owned a plane yet that matches the High Alpha maneuvers like the Vision.
And that might not be saying much, I'm a crummie pilot.

Maudib... Never took the time to say thanks before this. But I followed yours and Mark Treads' thread on the D-V build. And mine went together alot easier because of that, so thanks.


Greg

Roadster

Where are the threads located and what are the titles. I'd like to go through them before I start putting mine together.

Deciding between the Vision and WH plane was tough because they are both so good. I finally emailed a reviewer and competitive flyer that has experience with both planes and he had a preference for the Vision. I went with the Vision but would have been happy with either plane.

Thanks
George

George... This one has some pretty good info in it. I'll look back and see if I can find some different ones. I have a first and second generation Vision and Chip has changed the manual and made some minor mods to the plane. It is a straight forward build, very little massaging. One thing for sure set the C/G at 4.25 make a big differance. If you have Question ask Chip, Just be patient he is out of town alot. There is a lot of good help here on RCU. As I have stated my Blue Vision was a "Turn Key" plane that CHP built for me. But I know just enough to be dangerous.
Welcome to the Visionaries

Greg

I have to agree with Roadster. I had a WH Edge last year and am flying the Vision this year. I have a DV in the box, but it's a backup.

Anyhow, I experienced a lot of snapping tendencies with my WH Edge as well. Enough that I couldn't fly with confidence that I knew what I could get away with all the time. It flew well, just had to be tender on the elevator. One of my best friends used to compete pattern, and is an awesome pilot. He had the WH 300 and he said it snapped too easily too. He replaced it after one summer with a DV and a Yak.

I can't make my Vision snap even on high rates and high speed. I always feel confident and it has bailed me out of a lot of dumb thumbs that would have put the Edge in a trash bag. I agree, it flies like a pattern plane, but does great 3D as well. It's not the easiest plane to hover, and flat spins are a challenge to. But, it does everything else great and overall is an outstanding performer. I love my Vision! [8D]

I gaurantee you one thing... the Vision will come in a good 2 pounds lighter than either of those two WH planes. Lighter is always a good thing.


Tom

Vision is a purpose designed bird. It doesn't have many of the bad habits that the scale birds have.

I have to retract my statement about the Vision being 2 pounds lighter, I wasn't thinking the mods and math through properly. [sm=bananahead.gif] My CF landing gear and tailwheel, and lighter tires probably saved me half a pound. I have a CF spinner too, but that isn't lightening the plane cause I had to use about 6 ounces of lead on the nose to balance... if anything, it's making it heavier. I completely recovered my Vision and added a lot of vinyl graphics, probably picked up 4 ounces in covering, paint and vinyl (over stock). I also added wood blocks on both sides of every hinge joint to anchor Robart hinge points instead of the CA hinges... probably another 3-5 ounces added to the plane.

So, overall, any lightening I did with CF components was more than offset by the mods I added back onto it. I've never done the math, but I really think I added a good 4 ounces more onto the plane than what I saved with CF... not sure. Mine is 16-1/4 pounds with about 6 ounces of lead on the nose. If I had used the 2-1/2" DA standoffs instead of the 1-1/4" standoff, I might have been able to take 2 or 3 ounces of lead off. I never weighed a completely assembled stock Vision, but I really think it would have come in at about the same weight as mine or lighter. My WH Edge was just over 17-1/4 pounds stock. So, I would probably say that the Vision is closer to 1 pound lighter than the Edge.

Some guys are claiming they have their Visions coming in at 15-1/2 pounds, but I don't know what mods they've done, or if that's an accurate weight. Using CF gear all over on the WH Edge, I doubt you could get it much under 16-1/2 pounds? As for the snapping, I've heard two guys now say their Edge's don't snap, so maybe some do and some don't. I haven't heard a single person say that their Vision snaps though. I'm sure everyone has different taste in how they like their planes to perform, but for me, the Edge felt heavy and lethargic while the Vision feels very light and "graceful" for lack of a better term.

I will say that the 4-1/4" CG is definitely the sweet spot for the Vision, and that you should use the 2-1/2" standoffs vs 1-1/4", and I really think it needs more right thrust on the engine. A number of guys have added right thrust and like it better... I may try it on mine later. (It does want to pull left when you try to hover, which is my only real complaint.)

Just my opinions.

Tom

Tom... Well put. Mine hovers great, see attachment. Two new Extreme Flight Yak 54 showed up at the field on Monday. Both flew awsume. Let one of the guys fly my Vision. He loved both planes about the same, but said the Vision would High Alpha and torque roll easier.
And he liked the way my Vision landed compared to his Yak.

Greg

My vision flies fine, no snapping. trust me, I have done every slow or stupid thing with it, and it loves the elevator buryied. I would not own another gas plane that does snap, its no fun.
I have the Vision and the Double Vision. still workin on the DV, hopefully by months end it will be done.

I have flown the EF yak, and think it flies better overall, but, you can buy a Vision, you cant buy an EF Yak. The WH stuff just seems to portly, seems like a nice company and all, but just overweight.

Ditto. Couldn't have said it better myself!

Tom

Hi,
I want ask you an information.
I've bought a vision 3d and I' ve a question for the installation of da50.
Now in the instriction there is the image of the engine mount with the carb rear insaide the fuselage. This system I don't like and so I ask you if I use the original 3-1/4" stand-offs there are the problem for CG or not.
Paolo

I used the original standoffs and had no problems with cg. just move your stuff around.

I believe the "stock" standoffs for a DA are the 2-1/2" ones. That's what they sent me by default. I had to ask for the 1-1/4" standoffs for my Vision... but wish now that I had used the 1-1/4" instead.

No amount of moving things around would get me balanced, even at an inch back from suggested CG and using a Carbon Fiber tailwheel. Had to add 6 ounces of lead to the nose. I also had to cut the back end of the cowl shorter cause it was hitting the gear due to the shorter standoffs. If you use 2-1/2" standoffs you won't have to do that, but I think 3-1/2" (which aren't standard) would be too long. You probably would have problems mounting the cowl at that position.

Tom

Sorry, I meant "wish not that I had used the 2-1/2" instead.

T

Chief shipped my Vison the day I ordered it. Now it has a coast to coast trip to make.

Chief doesn't know when my DA50 will come in and I'm not too hopeful, it's already been a month [&o]

George... Shouldn't be to long. If you order one from D.A. today it will ship in one week. Congratulations !!

Greg

Developing a new trick I have named the "Ejector"

It ejected Shumi this afternoon. Somehow, a buddy got a pic of the canopy falling as I turned around to come in.

Picked up a couple of new pics.

That is my son Zane.

LMAO What a pic! That's too funny!

T

Thats funny.
I got Swiper, kids cartoon character in mine. Someday he is going to burn baby!

Ordered one of those chip hyde 24x7 props today
Seems like da 50 is missing some pull out of a hoover.
Hopefully the 24x7 is the ticket.
Anyone try those amt pipes on a da 50 yet?

Check your six

Where does everyones balance with out the wings on?
Wings will move the balance point back.
I am about an inch behind the wing tube.

check your six

I don't know where mine is in regards to the wing tube, but I'm at 4-1/4" back from the leading edge at the wing tip. That's definitely the sweet spot for 3D. Just put the wings on and pick it up by the wingtips... measure back 4.25 from the LE out there and that's where you 'll want to be.

Tom

Anybody out there using the chip hyde cannister and header combo on there plane.

Would like to know if you cut the header length and got anymore performace from it.


Right now my da 50 is getting 7000 rpm's with a 22-8 menz and stock length.