I think uby is going to ignore you going vert

uby, i think you lack the skill to use rudder, therefore ur trying to compensate by the use of elevator. No offense though....
Anyway, i think its encouraging to know that u folks are coming up with newer techniques that ur also willing to share with us. Keep it up!

humm well a few things .. i used to be rudder retarded would almost never touch it ......ive been breaking that habit for a wile and this has improved my flying skills. i can also to a rolling harrier with only elevator and throttle management in fact i did one about 15 min ago flying in my front yard with my shocky .... they look fine .. i can also do one with rudder and elevator lol so i can tell the difference a little bit but to most people watching me they cant tell but it can be done

i have one other q for n e one that has any ideas i cant seem to figure this one out .. my shock flyer will sometimes anti torque roll on its own ... no aileron input at all but only indoors .. it has to be dead calm and any time i try to make it happen it wont and when i dint want it to it will as well .. thx

Yep!

Guys - we were kidding about the gyros. Wayne and all the competition pilots out there do not use gyros in competition or in practice. We were simply joking around because the the guy who started this thread is joking too!

What Drew said, ditto. LOL Yep, were just kidding, I don't think any TOC pilots use them. And it's illegal to use in competitons, but anyone who wants to can use as many gyros as they want for everyday flying.

Gyros can be useful for taming bad ground handling on scale birds, so that the takeoff and landing rollout will be straight.

I am not ignoring anyone .... Its just that I am unable to upload my 20 MB file ... I am having Internet problems in my region.

RCFREEK I think you have never stood by me while I am flying .... My stick is time 100 times than yours and if ever I was unskilled with the use of rudder I wouldn't have good flying and never would have won any competition.

As I said earlier also , its not that I cannot use rudder or its not important but we should look at things in broader sense. If I am sucessful I'll also send a flight where both techniques are used side by side so you can compare.

This is no joke vert .... its a very good technique, specially for the starters. You cannot learn everything instantly. You have to go step by step.

Thanks for your patience.

Going Vert, I have posted the files on your server .

yep - got them. I should post them by tonight or tomorow.

The world waits[X(]

You guys are going too harsh on Uby here, I doubt hes having a joke lets just see the vid and draw conclusions from that. The LAST thing anything wants is to be digging a big trench and then be disproven. Not saying that is going to happen, and for that matter I am playing Switzerland for this one.

Well im dissappointed there has been no one roll rolling circle posted by whoever it was claimed to be able to do them with no rudder. And dont forget your finale mind. The Darwin awards are just around the corner. Its now or never Mr Rudderless.

Angus

You CAN do a one roll circle without rudder it IS possible.

You'll just find that by the end of the manuver your plane will be pointing groundwards

10ft underground more like! Course you can do a one roll rolling "circle" with no rudder. The comment made earlier was that you cant tell the difference between one done with rudder and one done without. WRONG!

Angus

Generally speaking, what I have seen differs between MUTLIPLE rolling circles with an without rudder is this:

The ones with rudder tend to be tighter turns and slower, whislt the ones without are more larger and flown faster because you need to kick up the speed a notch to keep the airplane going.

I can understand what Uby is saying here when it come to rolling harrier circles, I know some planes do "lock" into a harrier which could be such an explantion. Whilst rotating especially with a high spped of roll, the time spent on the side of the airplane would be minimal now Im no expert here, but if the plane is rolling like mad elevator and alieron can be used to keep a near straight path and possibly to perform a decent rolling cirlce of either the standard or harrier.

Also some of here say it is possible or is isnt, but do we all fly the EXACT same airplane?

I there some planes which take a hell lot ot KE and some that dont even need a breath of rudder, That is one factor which must be taken into account, also if Uby here is using a Positron 90 I have heard that can KE nearly wihout rudder or very little.

No-one disputes that rudder can be ommited with certains airplanes to perform the manuver, but the question remains gentlemen and women. Can it done to a certain perfect standard. But even then, the meaning of "perfect" is different to everybody.

I'll leave it here till the video is to be seen

Shahid

Don't be dissapointed.

This thread is titled " Rolling Harriers - the ....... " not rolling circles. The video I uploaded contains rolling harriers without rudder not one roll rolling circles.

Angus B if you have the ability to read I said in one of my previous posts they are not possible w/o rudder. If I see someone doing them I'll send you a video ! We both are here on RCU.

Uby, I loaded the video into AFPD, but nothing played. The software said the video was playing, but no plane appeared in the screen.
Did you modify the extra at all? If so, the software is probably looking to play the video w/ that plane, which I don't have.

This might be easier. I'll record something tonight showing a rolling harrier done both ways. The no elevator method will show the circle being much more choppy.

Sorry but i dont have time to trawl through all the guff on these pages. But im sure there was a comment made about being able to do a one roll rolling circle with no rudder. Obviously i was mistaken.

Oh and i can read thanks very much Uby. Thanks for your concern.

Angus

A while back when I learned rolling harriers, I used the elevator only and then the rudder only. Then I put both together and practiced, and practiced. Now I can do them in any direction, stopping and rolling one way and then the other.

Uby, I agree that step by step works very well when people are trying to learn. It worked very well with me and with others. Now I just have to practice the flat rolling stuff for IMAC and Pattern.

well you cant do a rolling harrier anywhere near right and not close to perfect without rudder .. the rudder is needed along with slight taps on the throttle to keep the nose in the air.. rolling circles can be done without rudder because the plane is remaining straight you have one elevator movement down, one for the turn and one up.. BUT if you get in a habbit of using your rudder it will be alot smoother and to me i feel like i got more control over the motions even if the rudder input is ever so slight..

Going Vert ... just modify the roland matt extra 330 as follows :

Rename it to : ubyextra33
Modify all control throws to 60 degrees (both aile, elev & rudd).
I think the secenry is forest lake ........ you can change the view by pressing space.

This one is a short flight just my starting flights ... No rolling harrier circles here only rolling harriers ...
Do send your video too,it'll be interesting. I've seen a lot of people do rolling harriers in circle but hardly very few people doing them a straight line. Maybe the rudder times out people here (he he )

Drumbum,
I meant that it's a good learning tool by going step by step. I use rudder alot and totally agree with you that it is a lot smoother using rudder. Mostly all maneuvers are connected to the rudder in diffrent ways. They can be done (with elev only), but it might not be as precise and as crisp as using rudder.[8D]

In my post of the Double Vision video I do rolling harriers and there is no way I can do them without rudder. I do them in a row, then turn left and in a row again and turn. I practise them by doing them in a figure 8 rolling left 1 complete circuit then right a complete circuit. I have seen people do them with elevator only, but they were not pretty.

I thought I might participate into this discussion. Reading all these threads, just wanted to add that I too learned rolling circles (not harriers) using elevator only and I ended up getting them done pretty smoothly but not perfect. The key to do them smoother is the speed. Faster you go less input you need and less wobbly it gets.The only problem is there is that wavy up and down motion as it rolls which you almost can't get rid of. Then I learned to use rudder and that I must admit changed whole appearance of the maneuver.
The speed is also key factor for KE. Some people don't need to use much rudder particularly pattern planes 'cos they fly much faster. You know that in harriers you need all throws you have on rudder and elevator to keep the attitude of the plane 'cos it moves slowly.
UBy, I haven't seen your video but I hope you mean rolling circles not rolling harriers. Honestly, I just can't imagine how you can perform rolling harriers with elevator only.

Yeah, but the guy's right, you CAN do rolling harriers and rolling harrier circles with just elevator. They tend to nod a bit, but you can do it.

Also if you study video of some of the top fliers you'll see they often miss out inputs as they harrier roll.

NO rolling harriers I disagree yes Rolling circle I agree.. A rolling harrier is done almost at Idle speeds. there is no way it can be done CORRECTLY without rudder and bliping the throttle (people are still ignoring the throttle part).