I've seen Leyland do a rolling circle w/ ailerons only - no rudder or elevator, and w/out looking - and that's no joke!

Why doesnt'' someone come out with a rolling circle/harrier how to video showing the manuever and the thumb movements in the corner,,, I would buy it, I can torque roll great, harrier, all other 3d maneuvers but rolling harriers are giving me a fit, what throws do you guys have on elevator, rudder, ailerons on your real plane or on AFP sim, so I can enter them and keep trying I'll start the rolling and it just goes straight to the ground,,,,,,,,,,,[:@]

Ain't nothin' like a Tensor!

Hmm..

You mean like the 3D University Video we did on Rolling Harries at www.flyingcirkus.com ?

I have to get in on this again. Why are yall using gyros and such. Wasting your time. I took the trainer system of my Hobbico Nexstar trainer and put it on my H9 Sukhoi. I only have to roll have the time in a rolling circle. All I have to do is roll to inverted, and it rolls back to normal by itself. That way I only have to be half as good as all you other like Wayne and Leyland. Heck, Chip and Mike Mac aint got nothin on me as far as rolling manuvers. No, seriously. You can do rolling harriers and rolling circles without rudder. It is how I started. I took one less thing off my mind. But the key words mentioned were "PERFECT ROLLING HARRIERS". Me thinks not. And John, on AFP I use the Roland Matt Extra. You know the yellow one with the red bubbles. I max everything out on high rates in the AFP setup and on the radio, and on low rates i got it to fly somewhat like my Sukhoi (except I dont have the trainer system on AFP : )) I use High rate aileron and rudder, but I have found it easier to maintain a high AOA if I use low rate elevator. It keeps it from pitching too much. I use this tecnique on my Sukhoi, Funtana and small H9 Edge and it worked fine for all of those, so I dont see why it wouldnt work for everything else.

This is how I recommend you do rolling harriers and full power blenders.....

http://video.shutupandfly.com/Blendage1.wmv


PS - we are not using gyros.... We were kidding. It's not possible to do a good rolling harrier, in real life, w/out rudder. The guy that started this thread is laughing at all this back and forth, and so am I!

yeah right, u have a 14MZ, and I have a Lamborghini

Rolling Harriers and rudder... hmm i never used rudder... which stick is it on? hahahaha

Well its not only simulator guys ... I have done rolling circles at an alititude of 5 feet from the ground in real life ... and my teacher Sajid Khan ... also uses the same technique ... his circles are so low that the wing tip is almost touching the ground. We have so much control that we can perfrom crisp circles any size we want.
Our current National Champion uses rudders in rolling circles but our runner up doesn't... and me too .. I am in advanced right now but my rolling circles cannot be beaten by the Champion even. Its all a matter of practice.


The other day, Sajid Khan also performed Rolling Harriers with elevators only on a G Trick 90, My Positron and his Flip 3D, they donot stall at all. When I get a chance to video myself doing the rolling harriers w/o rudder I'll post a video. Tommorow maybe I'll upload my AFP video which was just my 3rd flight after learning Rolling Harriers.

On the sim I use 60 degree throws on all surfaces and my custom built radio for the sim is the old hitec focus 4 without any switches or dual rates yet I can do anything on it without using rates,expos etc. You should keep maximum thros .. mark leseberg in his article states he has the greatest throws in the world. I did start from the 3D university video .... but what i notice is there is no need of rudder input at all ... by the time the plane reaches in knife edge its stays at the same angle ... while it is inverted you apply the elevator to maintain the angle and similarly for the rest half roll it maintains the same angle if you are proper on throttle. The key to this manevour I see is Maximum deflection of surfaces. With a little more practice I'll be "perfect" on this manevour and will have full command over it.

I think it's basically your practice as he says " Perfect practice makes perfect" so I'll go on mastering my technique unless i am PERFECTLY perfect ! All the guys at TOC and stuff donot use the same technique ... they all have their secrets ... and similarly they keep different planes , whichever suits them best for their flying style.

If you can learn using a technique that works well ... you can also master it to perfection.

Forgot about the crucial throttle blips to keep it in High alpha In conjunction with rudder.. OH never mind I was 3ding my GP spirit glider and discovered it will rolling harrier fine.WIthout throttle. BTW im using 5945 digitals all the way around on a 6 volt setup, Got special titainium gears in them.4825 oz of torque,,so much torque I accadentally set my throws on 125% and ripped the tail off from over deflecting...

You have run into a problem though. Although your method for rolling harriers works, It WONT WORK for rolling circles,and it WONT work for PERFECT rolling harriers like you stated earlier. YOU CANNOT do a PERFECT rolling anything without rudder. I repeat, CANNOT. Lets take for instance your average 4 outside roll rolling circle. It is very important to not only use the rudder while in knife edge, but also in level or inverted flight to turn the aircraft. The same goes true with a Rolling harrier, but really isnt as important since the planes are rolling so fast. All the TOC guys use slightly different tecniques, but basicall all the manuvers are done the same way. Oh, and ALL of the TOC and XFC and whatever else guys use rudder while rolling.

I say lets all calm down and wait for the video, in the mean time Im waiting for my meat doner

I say to all of you who dont use rudder, start using it. As i said earlier, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL USING RUDDER and the reluctance of some would be aerobatic pilots in refusing to use it. Next you'll be telling us you don't need rudder for stall turns and spins!!

Plus i want to see a vid of these so called perfect rolling circles with no rudder. An attempt at a one roll rolling circle preferably. Should be funny and if i cant tell the difference between that and a proper one with rudder then you can have my new YS160.

Right, im off to the gym.

Angus

I want to see rolling loops with no rudder.

Hey Jon, I want to see that one too!!!!

Wayne, don't forget to grease those muffler bearings too!!! Thats got to be the finniest thing I've heard!!! Gyro on throttle and choke!!

Chris~

Still waiting for the video...

For your finale you should somehow ram in into yourself due to you having no idea how to use ur rudder at all. You might even make top ten in the Darwin awards. I'd sure vote for you [>:]

Angus

OK,
I thought I was doing real rolling harrier circles getting away with elevator, but only until I started practicing on the sim. They looked pretty good before, BUT theres a big difference in the look and feel when you use full deflection rudder and elevator and are getting the attitude up to about 60 degrees. Keeping it there dramatically reduces the planes tendency to want to accelerate the roll rate. I always read on Flying Cirkus that you needed full high rate elevator and rudder and aileron to do RHC's correctly and I didnt believe it. Now that I am able to hold a consistant high AOA like they say to. I NEED high aileron rates just to get the plane to roll because the plane is moving forward so slowly that propwash is all I have to get the roll going. You just move the elevator and rudder back and forth against the stops at the right moment and use the throttle to maintain AOA and play with the ailerons a little to get the roll rate constant.

When you finally get the timing right on elevator/rudder inputs and can manipulate rudder and throttle comfortably at the same time its amazing how all of the sudden rolling harriers actually seem easy and just fall in place all at once, I was fooling myself,,,, they look totally different using all 4 control variables to perform the maneuver.. It feels really good to be at that point. Not only with the sim but with my 30% Edge..

Well keep the YS 160 ready for me.

Yes I have done a rolling loop without rudder on Hanno Prettner's Magic.

What I am talking about is my 3rd flight on the sim. I AM NOT PERFECT YET , but If I practice more I can be perfect. (Please donot compare me with the TOC guys I am too novice infront of them) Now there are two files in the recording directory. one is *.shd file and the other is REC file .... if i attach the .SHD file will it work ? 'cause the REC file is a bit large to upload.


One roll rolling circle or slow roll rolling circle cannot be accomplished without rudder of course but I've seen people do that too. Guys I am not negating the importance of rudder , of course its integral part of all flying and its not that I donot use rudder at all, it is required in every manevour but this technique for rolling harriers also works well. You guys should atleast once try it both ways. Use the roland matt's extra with 60 degree deflection on all surfaces and at about half throttle.


3D ONdaEDGE .... there is no term "Impossible" in my dictionary. You CAN do PERFECT rolling harriers if you practice. Though I cannot do them PERFECTLY right now but very soon, by the grace of Allah,.... I'll be able to do so.

So guys tell me about the video what file to upload ?

post the files to my ftp server and I'll convert them into a format that everyone can view. I'll send you a PM w/ instructions.

you have the instructions in your inbox.

Hey dude. Everyone knows that you can rolling whatevers without rudder, you you put yourself in the hole when you put the word "PERFECT" in front of it. Thats what got me wound up. I apologize if I came across as abrasive or harsh. I was just trying to make my point. I totally agree with you about the word impossible. I really dont believe that anything is impossible. Let me change that to unlikely or very hard. Anyway, I look forward to seeing the video. Later

Ya, I run a gyro on throttle, choke, AND smoke, and I have a mix that moves the elevator and rudder when I input aileron. So, I can do perfect rollers with the wingtip slapping the grass on every rotation, while I change and oil my muffler bearings on my chopper.[X(]

You can do them with only elevator, but it will look much better and be a WHOLE lot more acurate and controlled with both.

No problemo ... 3D on a edge. So the whole thing was for "perfect" only !

3D Kid how much all these gyros weigh ? ... Apart from the discussion ... do these TOC people also use gyros and stuff ?

uby - are you going to upload that video to my ftp server for us to enjoy your perfect rolling harrier w/out rudder?

I coulda sworn gyeos are illegal in most competetions of any kind, it takes the job away from the pilot and thus I don't like them for that [>:]