I always perform rolling circles without applying rudders and do them perfectly ... only with the elevator timing.
One day I was looking at an instructional video of rolling harriers it said "the technique is similar to rolling circles" .... so i hit upon an idea of doing rolling harriers without applying rudders. I ran my AFP and started doing PERFECT rolling harriers (both sides) without applying rudder only with throttle control and elevator timing.
Is there any way I can send you guys the AFP video ? check it out !

I was wondering if it is so easy and perfect with elevators only ... then why does the whole world try to do it with rudders ?

Mark Leseberg took 250 flights on simulator to learn rollin' harriers but i learned in only 2 flights.

TRY IT OUT GUYS ! ... IT WORKS GREAT !

for starters, perfect rolling circles cannot be done just using elevator. Try switiching on the pathfinder feature on afp which records the path the plane flies through. It will showup the big flaws in what you often think is a perfect manuver.

In the harrier rolls, go and try not using the rudder at 5 feet off the deck in real life- its much harder than the sim.

Acheiving a decent high angle of attack with just the elev is not possible in my opinion, and you have a lot less control over where the model is going.

Also, you also have absolutely no chance of pulling off a harrier rolling loop without very agressive elevator AND rudder movements on the pullout.

Best of luck!

What the?!?!?!?!?!

How do you do a one roll rolling circle (or 2 or 3 or 4 rolls) with NO rudder input?????

Buzz

You can do a rolling circle with no rudder! It would just be square!!

Angus

actually that is how I got started for one year doing rolling circles without rudder, then another year using just rudder with no elevator. but eventually as you slow it down or raise the nose you will have to mix both inputs together in a smooth rythum catching the airplane working against gravity. the other day we had a foamy fest in high wind there were many foamies rolling against the airwave high alpha with no rudder input, but the guys that were using rudder were able to surf the waive, slip it sideways and roll it in place - very cool. all great 3d pilots can rub their tummy and pat their heads at same time if anything I would practice this.

[quote]ORIGINAL: Luke 3D returns


"Acheiving a decent high angle of attack with just the elev is not possible in my opinion, and you have a lot less control over where the model is going."







In your honest opinion? What are you talking about. Aint no opinion to it. YOU CANT DO THEM PERFECTLY without rudder. There is a reason Leesburg spent 250 flight getting them down. Guess what. He is invited to all the different events like XFC and whatnot. He flys them perfectly WITH RUDDER. Yes a good starting point is to do them without rudder. Thats how I started. Then as you progress and start learning rudder inputs, then you add rudder. It is a slow process, even with a simulator. Oh, by the way, the simulator, especially AFP, cheats. All the plane feel extremely floaty. I can put my sukhoi in rolling harriers all day long, but on AFP I pretty much have to relearn the technique because the planes dont fly realisticly. Dont get me wrong, it is still superior to G2, but it is still not the real thing. I hope you figure out how to post the video so we can see these PERFECT rolling harriers.

Rudder is over rated.
I only use it for steering on the ground.

Keep practicing. You may find you don't need elevator either. Look! A PERFECT hole!

wayne, how do you hover then? and kinfe edge?

IMO rudder is essential. its one of my most used controls, not just in the usuall 3D stuff, but if i do a 1/2 loop to inverted, and its off track, i will straiten it up usign rudder

Also, if you teach yourself without the rudder, when you come to use the rudder, its teaching yourself all over again. So do it from the outset and itl be easyer

Ian

I use a multi-point mix when left rudder is needed and the snap roll button when right rudder is needed.

Ya, when I watch Wayne fly 3D he really doesn't use the rudder much. I can't understand it.... It must be all those gyros he runs!

2 Gyros is not a lot.
One for throttle and one for the choke.

Can you setup the throttle gyro to work w/ the rudder and elevator? IE - apply more throttle when you need it based on air speed and altitude?

So hes cheating you mean! Must take all the fun out.

Seriously though, what the hell is wrong moving your left thumb right and left to move your rudder. The ONLY way to do a proper rolling circle etc is to use rudder aswell as all your other primary functions. 3D ONdaEDGE is right. There aint no other way.

Angus "I use all four functions" Balfour

Of course Drew. How else would you do it?

Wayne, I think if you set it up with the spoileron mix it would function better just before the inverted part.

BTW, I came back to this thread on the rudder is so overrated post, glad I had finished off my coffee so my keyboard's not wearing it.

Happy New Year Everybody........................

Ed M.

The problem is that simulators although a very useful tool just doesnt give you that PUCKER FACTOR of the real thing!!!! It might seem easy on a simulator but when you try it with the real thing it will be much different.

Wayne thats cheating to me!

Nah just kidding. When rolling for me using rudder is important, I know Uby that rolling circles can be done without rudder yes, but the plane jerks back on forth around the axis. A proper crowd attention grabbing rolling cirle is on the axis all the time not the plane swaying around.

You said it worked for rolling harrier circles on the simulator. My suggestion is try it in real life and see if the plane can keep on its axis and not jerk around

LOL,

So it looks like all you have to do is peg the ailerons and hit that snap roll button every once in a while.

Uby's first post in this thread is a troll from what I can tell.

To be honest, untill you figure out the rudder, you can only advance so far in aerobatics.
There are no shortcuts for getting good.

Burn gas.

Higher air speeds require less rudder AND elevator. The high alpha rolls will need all the rudder and elevator you can give it or like others have already said, it will wobble like crazy, and possibly crash. Especially in real life (off the sim).

I gotta disagree there, all his other posts have been OK so why this one?

Gotta admit, nothing like a low harrier circle to catch the crowd...

Wayne - you mean to tell me that you don't have gyros on your planes? what about all that snap roll button stuff???.... LOL

I can do a "perfect" rolling harrier w/ rudder only..... how about that!

You mean eat more beans & peanuts

You must be flying the ancient way. I have 4 gyros hooked up to all the channels including throttle. This coupled with very sophisticated programming on my 14MZ allows me to fly most advanced maneuvers without moving a finger.

This way, I can fly rolling harriers all day, while listening to music & playing tetris on my multi-colored display.

You can do rolling circles without rudder, I have done them with a pico jet (does not have a rudder). But you have to keep the roll rate up, slow rolls are a no no.