Great planes ultimate 160
08-23-2007, 05:45 PM
#4426
RE: Great planes ultimate 160
ORIGINAL: eugene
Dick Pettit,
Read your test on the Ultimate/ Fuji 43...Sounds very impressive.
What would your thoughts be concerning a G-45 with EI ,and a similar set up. With the EI, standoffs, muffler, prop hub and bolt, it is about 64oz. It is a low time engine I have on the shelf and would considerably reduce the cost of the build. Would the G-45 have a comparable power output to the 43.....Any constructive comments would be appreciated...
Dick Pettit,
Read your test on the Ultimate/ Fuji 43...Sounds very impressive.
What would your thoughts be concerning a G-45 with EI ,and a similar set up. With the EI, standoffs, muffler, prop hub and bolt, it is about 64oz. It is a low time engine I have on the shelf and would considerably reduce the cost of the build. Would the G-45 have a comparable power output to the 43.....Any constructive comments would be appreciated...
08-23-2007, 06:57 PM
#4427
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
Thank you for the reply....Hanging on the prop maneuvers are above my skill level, just the basic roll, loop, snaps, spins, KE, etc. would be the envelope..
Another question: Mr Petitt says his test plane was 14.5#.. I have also read of weights 15-16.5#..this is quite a significant difference.. Just curious as to why, and what could be avoided to keep the weight down...
08-23-2007, 07:42 PM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
Who knows why?
Fact is, you can't find, hardly, ANYONE who will claim 15 lbs even, with most being more.... both of mine hit 15.5 without any effort, and that was dead stock, but using some heavier batteries.
Bank on it being 15 lbs. Power it based on being 15 lbs. Forget the Fuji.... they are slugs, and produce NOTHING ANYWHERE near real useable power with a larger prop.
Sorry to be blunt, but I have had a couple of newer Fuji's.... they are slugs.
For the money, get a DL 50 that comes with a good muffler you don't have to throw away, great ignition, and puts out power like a DA.
Once you start flying the Ultimate, you will QUICKLY grow to the need to throw it around like a rag doll.... and then you'll wish you had a better engine.
Again - sorry to be blunt - but you really should pass on considering a Fuji in this bird.
Fact is, you can't find, hardly, ANYONE who will claim 15 lbs even, with most being more.... both of mine hit 15.5 without any effort, and that was dead stock, but using some heavier batteries.
Bank on it being 15 lbs. Power it based on being 15 lbs. Forget the Fuji.... they are slugs, and produce NOTHING ANYWHERE near real useable power with a larger prop.
Sorry to be blunt, but I have had a couple of newer Fuji's.... they are slugs.
For the money, get a DL 50 that comes with a good muffler you don't have to throw away, great ignition, and puts out power like a DA.
Once you start flying the Ultimate, you will QUICKLY grow to the need to throw it around like a rag doll.... and then you'll wish you had a better engine.
Again - sorry to be blunt - but you really should pass on considering a Fuji in this bird.
08-23-2007, 07:44 PM
#4429
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
ORIGINAL: bubbagates
Folks,
Just a tip I learned a while ago concerning batteries with multiple servos. Big MAh are fine but you also want to make sure that the Ohm's are low. Most packs are in the 20ohm range and when you have that high of ohm's that creates a lot of resistance which causes big voltage drops, especially in 3D flying which in turn uses more battery voltage per flight. So to help with that you either run twp packs which in effect drops the ohms in half or you use a low ohm pack. I try to keep my ohm's down to 10 ohms or less and get great flight times on a 2700mah 10ohm pack versus the same 2700 at 20 ohms.
Most companies call low ohm packs High Rate packs which can deliver the required voltage to the servos without dropping voltage so quickly.
I normally use Li-ION but on some occasions I use hgh rate packs in my ignitions and this is where I saw the differences. Steve from NoBS batteries is the one who turned me onto this and it has worked for me for a while
Folks,
Just a tip I learned a while ago concerning batteries with multiple servos. Big MAh are fine but you also want to make sure that the Ohm's are low. Most packs are in the 20ohm range and when you have that high of ohm's that creates a lot of resistance which causes big voltage drops, especially in 3D flying which in turn uses more battery voltage per flight. So to help with that you either run twp packs which in effect drops the ohms in half or you use a low ohm pack. I try to keep my ohm's down to 10 ohms or less and get great flight times on a 2700mah 10ohm pack versus the same 2700 at 20 ohms.
Most companies call low ohm packs High Rate packs which can deliver the required voltage to the servos without dropping voltage so quickly.
I normally use Li-ION but on some occasions I use hgh rate packs in my ignitions and this is where I saw the differences. Steve from NoBS batteries is the one who turned me onto this and it has worked for me for a while
08-23-2007, 08:00 PM
#4430
RE: Great planes ultimate 160
ORIGINAL: aerobob
Or, you can run Hangtimes low impedance cells.... or better yet, run A123 2S packs and enjoy the AMPS.... yeee haaa!!!!!!
Or, you can run Hangtimes low impedance cells.... or better yet, run A123 2S packs and enjoy the AMPS.... yeee haaa!!!!!!
I've been hearing a lot about the A123 cells, who has them and also, where can I get some good info on them like any charger or regulator requirements. It sounds as though they may be the next thing since sliced bread
I also forgot about Steve's low impendance packs, excellent person to deal with and he's really close to me. I can place an order with him in the morning and in 90% of the time have it the same bext if I ask for UPS or 2 to 3 days if he sends it USPS
BTW, NoBS batteries and Hangtime hobbies are one and the same if you did not know that. Steve is a great guy and loads of fun to talk to as well as Brad from BadBradGraphics
08-24-2007, 02:20 PM
#4432
RE: Great planes ultimate 160
I had about 75 flights on my GP Ultimate with a Moki 2.10 b4 I had to sell it (we're moving to Europe!). It was such a nice combo that I just had to buy another which I'll take in the box overseas.
My setup included a 20oz tank and both mezjlick 19X8 and 19X10 props. Muffler was a BCM large volume pitts-style unit. I like to keep things simple so don't use a pump. I've found that plugging one exhaust pipe on the BCM doesn't affect performance, gives a great bass rumble to the exhaust note and ensures adequate pressure to the tank.
Performance was excellent at an all up weight of just under 15lbs (the Moki pulls like horse w/ the 19x8). Vertical was unlimited and hover was at around 3/4 throttle. I prefer the sound w/ the 19x10 and since I fly mostly IMAC type routines that's what I used.
My setup included a 20oz tank and both mezjlick 19X8 and 19X10 props. Muffler was a BCM large volume pitts-style unit. I like to keep things simple so don't use a pump. I've found that plugging one exhaust pipe on the BCM doesn't affect performance, gives a great bass rumble to the exhaust note and ensures adequate pressure to the tank.
Performance was excellent at an all up weight of just under 15lbs (the Moki pulls like horse w/ the 19x8). Vertical was unlimited and hover was at around 3/4 throttle. I prefer the sound w/ the 19x10 and since I fly mostly IMAC type routines that's what I used.
08-25-2007, 02:57 PM
#4434
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
Sure, a Saito 180 would fly it, but NOTHING more! Forget any vertical hovering, nor ability to pull-out of one.
Give you a comparitable plane. My DP Ultimate 1.20 is very much similar to this GP Ultimate 1.60. It has 60.5" wing span -vs- the GP Ultimate at 65".
MY DP Ultimate is around 13#, and has a Saito 150. It can do most moderate manuevers, but at 75-100% throttle, and in very slow motion.
Compared to the GP Ultimate with a 50cc gas engine, a Saito setup would just fly it, not much more.
Check into a DL 50 gas engine, if cost is an issue. They have a US distributor, and a support area here.
Give you a comparitable plane. My DP Ultimate 1.20 is very much similar to this GP Ultimate 1.60. It has 60.5" wing span -vs- the GP Ultimate at 65".
MY DP Ultimate is around 13#, and has a Saito 150. It can do most moderate manuevers, but at 75-100% throttle, and in very slow motion.
Compared to the GP Ultimate with a 50cc gas engine, a Saito setup would just fly it, not much more.
Check into a DL 50 gas engine, if cost is an issue. They have a US distributor, and a support area here.
08-26-2007, 08:46 PM
#4435
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
ORIGINAL: LuvBipes
I had about 75 flights on my GP Ultimate with a Moki 2.10 b4 I had to sell it (we're moving to Europe!). It was such a nice combo that I just had to buy another which I'll take in the box overseas.
My setup included a 20oz tank and both mezjlick 19X8 and 19X10 props. Muffler was a BCM large volume pitts-style unit. I like to keep things simple so don't use a pump. I've found that plugging one exhaust pipe on the BCM doesn't affect performance, gives a great bass rumble to the exhaust note and ensures adequate pressure to the tank.
Performance was excellent at an all up weight of just under 15lbs (the Moki pulls like horse w/ the 19x8). Vertical was unlimited and hover was at around 3/4 throttle. I prefer the sound w/ the 19x10 and since I fly mostly IMAC type routines that's what I used.
I had about 75 flights on my GP Ultimate with a Moki 2.10 b4 I had to sell it (we're moving to Europe!). It was such a nice combo that I just had to buy another which I'll take in the box overseas.
My setup included a 20oz tank and both mezjlick 19X8 and 19X10 props. Muffler was a BCM large volume pitts-style unit. I like to keep things simple so don't use a pump. I've found that plugging one exhaust pipe on the BCM doesn't affect performance, gives a great bass rumble to the exhaust note and ensures adequate pressure to the tank.
Performance was excellent at an all up weight of just under 15lbs (the Moki pulls like horse w/ the 19x8). Vertical was unlimited and hover was at around 3/4 throttle. I prefer the sound w/ the 19x10 and since I fly mostly IMAC type routines that's what I used.
08-27-2007, 11:26 AM
#4436
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
Having 2nd thoughts an maybe using my futaba 9252 digis on the the elevators. They are rated at 92oz at 4.8V, which is more than the min 75oz for 3D that GP recommends. Any thoughts here? Being that I am going glow, vibration from the moki should not be as much of an issue relative to gas.
08-27-2007, 11:30 AM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
the 9252's should be plenty. You'll probably be a bit lighter than a gasser with the Moki, and if in doubt, just stuff a 6 volt in it, you'll get a lot quicker servo response as a bonus.
08-27-2007, 12:48 PM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
ORIGINAL: arobatx
Zodrak, thanks for the post....what is your all up weight as equipped above?
Thanks,
Chad
Zodrak, thanks for the post....what is your all up weight as equipped above?
Thanks,
Chad
It's around 7.8 kg (i'm from europe .. google thinks that is about 17.2 lbs)
This is I think the fifth flight .. the engine is still rich .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddQy8vfyQY
08-27-2007, 01:45 PM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
This is a damn nice flying plane at a wide range of weights....i can't believe the difference in weights (at the extremes) and still the great flight reports.
08-27-2007, 02:07 PM
#4440
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
It's almost a decent "glider" when called upon. I had an Ignition go bad on my Brison a couple of weeks ago, and had No problems coaxing it around the pattern for a dead stick and roll out ending at my feet. Such a sweet flying bird! Curiosity is pulling at me... is anybody using an Ulti in the lower IMAC Classes, i.e. up to sportsman? I've thought about doing just that, but keep thinking I need to pick up an Extra or Edge to be in the performance neighborhood. The Ulti is just so good at drawing straight lines, and tumbles like a bipe is supposed to!
08-29-2007, 06:55 AM
#4441
RE: Great planes ultimate 160
I too like to save money on servos so I used Futaba 3010 on everything except rudder whre I used a higher torque 3305 w/ metal gears. Works fine and has enough oomph for pretty tight knife edge loops. If you can afford the 9252 they will give you excellent performance, I'm sure.
so I used Futaba 3010 on everything except rudder whre I used a higher torque 3305 w/ metal gears. Works fine and has enough oomph for pretty tight knife edge loops. If you can afford the 9252 they will give you excellent performance, I'm sure.
08-29-2007, 09:27 AM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
well i decided to go with the grain here and went with the 5645 on ailerons and 5985 on ele/rudder. Better to be safe then sorry I guess.
08-29-2007, 09:38 AM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
it's listed as having a Metal gear train with a Karbonite gear.... same as the 5645's. There is a Metal Gear set available for them. I'm using the 5646's and not having a bit of trouble with them at all, but I do plan on installing the metal gear set this winter just as a precaution. I think you're probably ok on the Ulti with the Karbonite gears, as there isn't that huge of a load on them, and they are a lot tougher than the nylon gears.
08-29-2007, 09:41 AM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
mcmike - I disagree with that - there are dozens of horror stories about Karbonite-geared servos failing on many different sizes of gassers, and particularly when used in a 3D environment. I don't use them.... doesn't mean everyone else is wrong.... I just wanted to raise awareness of the issue.
Caveat Emptor.
Caveat Emptor.
08-29-2007, 09:46 AM
#4446
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
About the only 3d that I do is with a foamy.... and I bust up a LOT of them. I keep a VERY close eye on the servos. I've got one 5645 on every aileron, and the ones on each elevator half have been changed over to the metal sets, so even if I do lose one, I've got some backup. The rudder has the 5955TG, so it's pretty much bullet proof. I agree with you, and would never use them on anything heavier or faster than this, and to be honest, yeah, i'm a bit nervous about them. But that will get changed soon. I've already got the gear sets sitting in the shop, just too busy to pull the servos out and change them
08-29-2007, 10:01 AM
#4447
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
Cool.... glad you didn't take my post the wrong way, some would have.
Sounds like you've got a handle on your setup. I have 5645's on my four ailerons, but, like you, I am not "crazy" with this airplane, and if one *does* strip...well, the other three hopefully wouldn't go at the same time...
Sounds like you've got a handle on your setup. I have 5645's on my four ailerons, but, like you, I am not "crazy" with this airplane, and if one *does* strip...well, the other three hopefully wouldn't go at the same time...
08-29-2007, 10:10 AM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
....gosh Bob you didn't have to spank him like that, you big meany 
I wonder if the people having problems with the karbonite gears are seeing the torque numbers, putting metal arms on them, and setting them up without attention to mechanical advantage? I have heard all the stories about these gears, but the only issues I have witnessed, are ones where the setup was out of line. I had a set in my older Funtana 90, all the way around, and I pounded that airplane for two seasons, not a problem. But I also used 1" nylon arms and maintained mechanical advantage. The plane is sold so it is a moot point now. This was just something that had me curious!
Chad
I wonder if the people having problems with the karbonite gears are seeing the torque numbers, putting metal arms on them, and setting them up without attention to mechanical advantage? I have heard all the stories about these gears, but the only issues I have witnessed, are ones where the setup was out of line. I had a set in my older Funtana 90, all the way around, and I pounded that airplane for two seasons, not a problem. But I also used 1" nylon arms and maintained mechanical advantage. The plane is sold so it is a moot point now. This was just something that had me curious!Chad
08-29-2007, 11:01 AM
#4449
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
I crashed a plane that had 2 servos with karbonite gear. Those were the only servos that I had to replace the gear. The other servos were metal gear. So if as long as you dont crash youll probably be good with karbonite servos. Saying that I probably wouldnt buy anymore karbonite geared servos.
08-29-2007, 11:20 AM
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RE: Great planes ultimate 160
The gears didn't fail in flight, did they? ... and why doesn't Hitec offer these servos with the Metal Gears installed? They've got replacement sets that include them.... Go figure...