Well test flew my Razzle today..Running a S.T.60 with a 14-4 apc didn't do bad for first flight. Would hold a hover but not climb out at all. Snaps were good (actually stopped forward motion). Knife edge barely with a ton of rudder. Then things began to fall apart.

Lost wheel during the flight, no problem I will just land sloooowly. Rolled inverted and engine quit-I hate setting up 2cycles inverted-left a distance out so I glided to a nice tall grass landing. A small snap heard and the plane seemed to be sitting level.

Well must be those cheap light weight landing gear bolts I thought - hehehe. Ripped the block clean out. separating the cheap plywood not the glue joints.

My suggestion for the easiest landing gear reinforcement if wanted. From each side pin with 1/8 dowels and cover with scrap red. The landing gear block is actually inset in the sides of the fuse.

I think for the money this is a good plane and just needs tweaking to get to fly honestly. There was no pitch coupling at all and the plane wanted to fly true. So this winter the purple wing will become yellow and red and just maybe a little bigger engine will find its way into the shop.

V-Snap

Would someone please tell me what color Ultracote is on this airplane?
Looks like transparent orange to me. I ordered a roll but it does not even come close. The new roll of orange looks yellow.

So, I call Horizon and they tell me it is covered with transparent yellow.
It sure doesn't look like the yellow on the sample card at the LHS.

HELP!! :stupid:

dont let them fool ya,,,its transparent orange, stick some on the plane and you'll see

I did...it does not match. The transparent orange I got looks yellow.

I certainly don't think much of their customer support.
Told me to break in a FA-100 with high speed opened 2&1/2 turns.

Well guys I have got to say that right at this moment I'm not too happy with my razzle. Maybe I'm missing somthing somewhere?
For me it is slow to respond, the rudder to me is useless . It could be in my setup but not sure where? Just my thoughts any suggestions or comments would be nice, maybe I need to change something.

Later, Ken

I haven't been real happy with mine either. Maybe it's just my set-up I adjusted CG, engine thrust angles, still does not fly like I would like. Great sport flier. Very light. It doesn't like harriers (can't really get it to lock in, wing rocks like mad) On my hovers, seems like the thrust angle may be off, but I change and tinker with it without any luck. Beside, the color scheme sticks, I've nick named it"Friut Loop". O'well, I guess I need to just take the Saito off her and find it a new home.

EdMan

Edman,

I would have to agree, I've done all the same things you have to no avail. maybe its me maybe its the setup. Who knows? Maybe some of these other folks will chime in and let us know.

I don't have these problems with my other planes. Could be it's just another good ole' sport plane but who wants another one of those.

later,Ken

I just picked up my razzle, and was wondering, since this seems more of a mid wing than a low wing, is it supposed to be balanced upright or inverted (book doesn't say)? Either way I try to balance it (on a Great Planes CG machine @ 4 3/4"), it wants to pendulum over. From horizontal, if the nose falls slightly, then it is nose heavy, and vise-versa with the tail. It won't balance out and stay there. This is my first 3d plane, and I'd like to get it right.

I had the same deal with balancing mine too. I did balance it inverted. If it is see-sawin' back n fourth, your pretty close on that point. I generaly hold the plane level (i even use the little lite weight level that comes with the GP CG balancer) then release the plane to see which way it falls.
Hope this helps a bit.

Edman

EdMan,

Yes, that does help. I took Mike Bogh's idea and mounted the battery (5 cell) behind the cockpit, and it is balancing right at 4 5/8". Like I said, which ever end is down when I let go is the end that falls. If I set it dead on horizontal with a bubble level, it will sit there for a few seconds, and the fall one way or the other, but never consistently one way, so I figured I was close. I'm guessing that with the plane balanced like this, it is going to be able to do some serious flip-flopping around the sky. Thanks for the reply.
I also noted the problems with the horizontal stabilizers, so a brace has already been installed (looks much like AnthonyH's pics above.

Grittykitty

I set my razzle up with a Saito 72, 4.75 cg, 13X4W APC prop, weight at 6lbs. 8oz., using 100% rates and it does everything I can ask. It floats extremely well. It hovers but not alot left to pull out very fast. It does pull out though. I added two washers for some right thrust. One washer was not enough. I got a 14X4W prop today and will fly it soon as I can. I put lower flying wires to strenghten the horizonal stabilizer. It's my favorite of 11 planes at this point despite the percieved shortcomings of the product I read in this forum.

I have an unmodified Razzle with an OS91 (no cowl), the engine swings a 16x6 and is a beast. The manufacturer recommends CG up to 5.5" from LE. I tried this, I need 5oz of lead in the tail, with the battery behind the cockpit. The plane is then too flicky and is really quite untrimmable. Any ideas?

1.....with a VERY tail heavy plane, they do get twitchy ......that's normal, if you want to fly around normally use a low rate with some expo .....50% maybe...this plane isn't really designed to fly around ...it's designed for 3d maneuvers.

2.....don't be afraid to operate on the bottom of the fuse near the tail to get the battery farther back !...added weight is your biggest enemy in a 3d plane

3.....with a razzle's tank location your cg will vary a bit between full and empty tank...i would do a test with approx. half tank....invert the plane at half throttle , let go of the sticks, if the plane drops, you can move the battery back farther. keep moving the battery back until the plane will fly level inverted with half a tank.

this is really as far back as you can go unless you are an expert at 3d type planes. Even at this cg the plane landing with a near empty tank will be coming in nose high and will be a bit of a hand full for someone not experienced in landing a plane that is tail heavy .

Thanks for the info. I can probably move the battery back into the servo area of the tail, this will reduce overall weight. I'm a reasonably accomplished flyer and I think that adding this much weight at the extremities of an airframe will dramatically increase the momenent around the COG i.e. once the tail weight begins to move it's momentum will tend to keep it moving. Hence my problems trimming. I'm way overpropped too with a 15X6 as the OS91 FX runs at near idle most of the time and gives me 30 min flights.

in your earlier above post you said you were running a 16X6... in the last post you say 15X6...[X(] which is it ??


if you want a better 3d prop try a 16x4w apc......if the engine can't spin this prop with authority , try a 15/4w apc...this will slow you down quite a bit !

your right about the weight in the tail, obviously the ideal situation for 3d would be no weight at the ends (tail &nose) and the battery servos and tank at the cg.....but that ain't guna happen

HI i am wondering if anyone can give me info on Razzle 3D by Seagull Models.

Go to page one of this thread and read back to here. Lot's of information to absorb.

KieranJohn, if you don't have the Razzle yet and are thinking about a Seagull model, you may want to check out their "Harrier 3D"

Looks like a cross between a Diablotin and a Seduction.

Maybe I missed it, but what kind of throws are you getting all getting? And how do the ailerons (roll rate) compare to that of a Funtana?

I am looking for a less expensive plane to relearn how to fly on, and couldn't help but notice the design of this one, along with the lower price. I learned years ago with a Sig Kommander, and really don't want to have to buy a trainer. I found a nice trainer, but for the same price I can get one of these, and it is hard to resist.
How well does this plane fly, and would it be ok to relearn on? I can't help but want to buy one right now. I just want something I can have more fun with once I get my thumbs back. After all, once you get your thumbs back with a trainer, you basically have very little need for it after that.

Patriot

yes....keep the cg a bit forward and the throws low.