I've got a 29% giles 202 powered by a Brison 3.2 swinging a 20X8 prop.

Additionally I'm also flying a Midwest Extra 300 (flat slab style tail plane) powered by a Brison 4.2 swinging a 22X8 prop.

I 've come to the conclusion that the aircraft are pretty heavy.... probably a result of heavy construction and engines that are too large for the airframe. However, both aircraft have unlimited vertical.

I have tried learning to hover at a safe altitude... but seem not to have any success.

Can anyone provide some information about learning to hover, or provide a link a tutorial?

Cheers,

Marcus.

what is happening when you try to hover?

do you have access to G-2 the simulator?

talk with you soon.

It's gotta be just practice. You need commanding control surface movements on the Elev, and Rudd too. There was a good article on the Horizon website with Mike McConville and he outlines a good plan to get started. I have been working on it for more than 4 months and still do not have it down. It took me like 2 months just to figure out how to TR just once by accident LOL. Before that I swore it wasnt' possible. Keep on practicing...
RickP

First thing is to forget about those aeroplanes.
Get a 15 buck fun fly and a .46 engine and start with that baby. You've gotta get it close and low...next to you... it's far easier than having it up high. This is high risk as they say...you've got to go for it... thus you'll be needin' a couple of disposable aeroplanes.

Practice...Practice....Practice!!!!! I just started myself with my WM Extra 300xs with a YS-140L and im getting a little better each time.

Hi Blabla, what can you get for 15 bucks ??.............

Hi,
You need to practise, the biggest help i've had was G2...however i started to learn with a sports plane which i swore you couldnt hover....now i know different!!!!....the key is reaction times (even anticipating the plane) and confidence....which both come from practise!!
Mike Mconvil did a good write up on Horizons web site...."torque rolling 101".

Still refuse to bring the model down on the deck though!!

Have fun

we even practice to hover with our old tt/trainer lots of laughs and fun and should we oops not to many tears as for the rest practice.

G-2 sim. Then put it into practice with the real plane. Took about 20 hours on the sim than about 20 hours on the real plane and more practice. Now I am down tail touching with the best of them. First I started with a Hovering cobra. Did not keep track of time in a low hover engine died plane crashed. Then I went to a Sudokoi. With a little practice I had it down with that plane as well. Then to a Funtana. Engine died in a low hover. I do not know why it died but the plane now is being repaired with a new
ZDZ 40 engine. By far the easiest plane I learned on was the Hovering cobra.

Thanks to all the folks who have replied. Your input is much appreciated.

A couple of further questions.....

1. The C of G placement is on the forward side of the maximum range for both the Giles and the Extra 300. Does that impact the stability during a hover?

2. A previous poster mentioned that control throw must be "commanding". I interpret that to mean large control throws are a must. How large should the control throws be?

3. When I've watched video's of guys hovering their control movements don't really seem very large at all. Are the large surface deflections only needed to enter the hover? Once in the hover are the control surface deflections smaller than in the entry process?

4. When I attempt to hover (at a safe altitude) I simply slow the aircraft down... as I get closer to the stall I start adding power and slowly try increasing the aircraft pitch attitude. At that point I either wind up in a stall (one wing normally goes before the other), or I simply wind up climbing at a very steep deck angle. Additionally it seems that the aircraft rudder becomes very sensitive to inputs at nearly vertical angles of attack. Am I approaching the attempt to hover with the aircraft in the correct manner?

Cheers,

Thanks to all for replying

Marcus.

Hi,
Everyone will have slightly different ways of doing this so heres mine:
Elevator throws are 55 degrees each way (if you dont beleive me check my piccy under my name to the left).
Rudder is sixty degrees each way.
I've got about 70-80% expo on both rudder and elevator to make it a little less twitchy round center.
I only use a small amount of this movement usualy however its very handy to have if needed in an emergency!
My CoG is set where it will hold a power off dive verticaly without pulling out.
Apart from that its just lots of fuel burning!!

To get in to a prop hang pull up as if your about to do a stall turn....just omit the turn and hold it their!!!

Have fun and good luck

There are a few things that you need to have. First and foremost is a good power to weight ratio, 1.5 to 1 or better and lots of control. The more control surface area the better, for the most part. Having said that, I have hovered trainers, Cubs and alike with enough power. First you need to develop the control inputs and the easiest and safest way to do that is to fly straight up, but strait up while making the necessary correction to keep it there. It make's no difference if you are climbing fast or slow, but the slower the better, as it gives you more time before you setup for the next attempt. When you get better, just decrease the climb and start lower and lower. Suddenly your hovering. Now in order to hover low, touching the ground low, you probably need some kind of lightly loading plane with lots of power and control with lots of practice, practice, practice.

Just my thoughts.

Scott minnesotarc.com

Yes,
You should not need too much throw, except when the plane falls out you'll need to catch it. If your throws are extream enough, you can even force it back into the TR or Hover. The plane will do "strange" things with on High rates near the stall with allot of power. Practice will be the only thing to get you through. Sims help allot.
RickP

hi, I am also trying to hover/torque roll and one of the problems I seem to have ( with more than just one plane ) is that the planes always seem to pull or fall off to the left wing, I find myself using alot of right rudder to correct this, but then, when the plane torque rolls 1/2 to 3/4 around i can't get the rudder the other way fast enough and the planes falls out. Is this a thrust angle issue?

Yes right thrust does help in hover, but it sounds like you dont have enough tail athority.
I use to fly a sig se, and after seeing pics on here of guys hovering there se i thought it was me. Well I got a OMP 540 profile and on the 2nd tank i was hovering a ft off the deck! The tail has so much athority i can force it back into a hover from any angle.
The se was real touchy around center and once you got at 5 deg angle it didnt have enough athority to get back. I think thats the prob with hovering other planes.
Big control surfaces.......Lots of throw......Lots of fuel
hope this help

So far in my experience (still learning to hover/tr) it seems that when using "3d" rates I tend to over-control a lot, even with up to -90% expo. Not overcontrolling to the point of falling out of the hover/tr, but it looks sloppy b/c I have to start correting my corrections. What I found works best is to use a "normal" slightly high rate w/ about -30%-40% expo which lets you stay on top of things without overcontrolling. When you really need a big correction, use full throw with a quick burst of power. I guess I can do it better than I can explain it, but that's what's working for me.

All in all the most important thing seems to be learning what the plane is normally going to do. You learn to recognize and even anticipate things, and eventually you'll be correcting for things before they happen.

And G2 DOES help a lot!

Hi, I have not hovered as of yet, but this is my first season at flying and this is the approach that I am taking. Practice with tail slides. Then keep adding power to reduce the tail slide. As matlok stated, you have to learn your plane, as each is different, and try to anticipate what your plane will do as the airspeed bleeds off and you increase the RPM. Set up is also very important, cg, control surface size and throws. As your plane is hanging there, any tail movements are made with nothing more than your prop wash. Takes some trial and error to see what your plane does. The G2 sim is very helpful! There you will find how different planes hover differently based on the type of plane and the setup of that plane. My 2 cents.

Richard