z1bam

I've been tossing the idea around for a little while about building a kit bi-plane, though the choices seem to be pretty limited. However I did notice one plane, the Murphy Renegade, that seems to be what I want based on its tech sheet, though does anyone on here have any experience building or flying one? Any other suggestions for a kit biplane would be great too!

Also if anyone has anything interesting to add in about biplanes in general I would appreciate that too.

Thanks
Kane

normgoyer

Hi, biplanes are fun to fly but not very practical. If all of your flying is local around the pea patch on a nice day, great but for any kind of long distance travel they are uncomfortable in almost every season. The Murphy Renegade is a good airplane but was designed for an early nlight weight two stroke engine, thus the long nose for balance. The best homebuilt biplane is the Marquart Charger, outstanding control function and easy to fly. I highly suggest you ride in a biplane many times before you tackle the job of building one. It will take several years of hard work at minimum. You may want to check Trade A Plane to buy one that somebody else spent all the time and money. Biplanes are easty to find for the above reasons. Flying is so expensive now an airplane should really do more than transport one around the airport on a sunny day. Norm

Taildragger726

I like biplanes,,,,,too! Just looking and the Pitts Model 12,, several at Sun-N-Fun.

normgoyer

The Pitts Model 12 is the culmination of 50 years of evolution. It all started with Curtis Pitts single place homebuilt, the one Betty Skelton modified to win many events as the "Lil Stinker." Aviat now has the rights to the design and sell both the kit version and the certified version. The Pitts
S-2 model is the best two place primary acro trainer around. The Model 12 is avail from a manufacturer in Florida as a kit with many prefab parts. Expect to pay through the nose for insurance for any akro aircraft. Norm

During WWII the services used PT-17s, WACO UPF-7 and other biplanes as primary trainers. Now you have to have the hours of airline pilot to even be allowed to buy insurance for your own airplane. I have many hours in a N2S (PT-17)

joebiplane

Norm
I've been " surfing and came across your post. how would you compare the takeoff and landing of the murphy renegade as compa red to the Marquart charger /
I have a Marquart and have flown it for 15 years... ( perhaps 200 hours and perhaps 300-TO's & lnd's) but...time marches on and i am wanting to go to LSA and am giving serious consideration to renegade with Rotax 912 80 HP engine.
What should I expect
Thanks
joe larsen

normgoyer

Hi Joe, the Marquart is the bench mark for small biplane handling including landing. The Murphy bipe has been around for a very long time and is also a good airplane but I would have to say that the Charger has better ground handling. The Maverick has a very long nose that if it starts to swing it could bite its tail in a flash. Some builders put heavier engines on the Maverick which reduces the length of the nose but you have to stay within the LSA rulse. Norm

if you have no problem with the Charger the Maverick should be okay for you

joebiplane

Thanks Norm for the RAPID RESPONSE
you mean those safe landings i've made for 15 years are a combination of Ed Marquarts genious and dumb luck and not my " aquired finesse" ?

Is the ' Maverick and the Renegade the same plane with different trim?

I was anticipating a Rotax 912 engine or perhaps a small lycoming or Continental or perhaps a Jabiru
How much affect could any of those choices affect the LSA requirement ( 1320 max gross weight)

normgoyer

Hi, forget the Maverick, I had just returned from a four hour 80 mph drive to Bob Hope International airport in Burbank and my mind was a bit frazzled. The Maverick is or was a Ford years ago. Don't spend nickel one on any aircraft you expect to fly LSA until you check it out to see if it is an LSA accepted model. Many are not, I wouldn't count on the Renegade being LSA with a Rotax 4-stroke in it. Your local EAA or FAA office can set you straight on this very touchy problem. Norm

joebiplane

Thanks Norm.... im also thinking of a continental 0200...it's been done many times.. LSA???? i'll follow your Sage advice and "check it outttt"
Joe Larsen

normgoyer

If you are going to build it yourself then check to see if the kit has been approved for LSA and remember that Murphy is a Canadian firm, Darrell is a super guy and all of his planes are great flyers and bargains but they are not USA, check to see if that will be a problem. If you buy an already built Experimental then your problems are different because each homebuilt is different. You could be stepping into a can of Mojave Greens which is far worse than a can of worms. Norm

MajorTomski

Went to OSH in 08 the Hatz Bi-Plane folks now have a Jabiru3300 powered LSA qualified bipe called the Bantam. It's faster than a conventional powered Hatz

http://www.hatzbantam.com/fly%20a%20...%20biplane.htm

HTH

Tom

normgoyer

Hi, the Hatz is a dynamite little bipe. I wrote a story about a Hatz based near Syracuse NY some years ago and it was a joy to fly. It felf much like a slightly lighter Charger. The Jabiru is a nice engine but I would go with a Rotax 912 if possible. The Rotax folks have been building this engine now for many years and there are thousands of them operating reliably. Norm

joebiplane

well Norm ...I did it... sold the Marquart and just bought a 20 year old Renedade.. the plane had about 50 hours on it and it became ' permanently tied down ' and left to rot for 20 +/- years it was sold 3 years ago and brought down to sort of a Partial built build status...i guess " a trailer full of carefully cataloged parts and fusalage that has had the front cut off....all covering was removed and project stopped moving... Now a baby is on the way in three weeks and the purchaser has decided he doesn't need this project SOOOOO.. as of today, I have become the new owner/builder. engine Rotax 532 is shot but included as is Prop for same.

I consider it a pile of misc airplane parts, from which i intend to return it to a flying Bi-Plane with a 4 cyl Aircraft engine producing 75-100 HP i will transfer it to my hanger at c01 Williamstown NJ this week and "Let the GAMES Begin ! "
how do I approach FAA RE: Reserving an N number and Home built status and LSA status...Any tips ?

ALSO... Does anybody make an R/C kit of the renegade preferably 1/4 scale but anyting is of interest

Thanks
joe larsen

normgoyer

Hi Joe, call Darrel Murphy (Murphy Aircraft) in Canada and ask him that question because I know that others have already done it and he will have the right answers. Also call the nearest FAA center (not flight service) and ask for their LSA specialist and he will have the answers. You can also contact the EAA who are deeply involved in the LSA movement as well. Norm

MajorTomski

You can do a simple search to see if the N number you want is already in use here:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...um_inquiry.asp
You will see a couple of different status' for the n numbers: assigned, unassigned, reserved, on hold, and assigned but questionable. The two to work on are the un assigned which means you can apply for them now, Just send the info to the regiistry w $10. The odd thing in the whole system is the "on hold" status. If a plane crashes or something else odd happens they put the number in this status so that the grieving family doesn't see the N Number flying again the next day.


You can also search a range of numbers but it is an ackward search function.
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...av_inquiry.asp

HTH If you need any help with the process email me. I work right across the street from the registry.