Those are safety guidelines, not rules. Yes, there is a difference.

There are no specific AMA guidelines about sticking a running prop in someones butt. Common sense would say it's a bad idea.

Thank you United! After 40+ years of retail management you better have learned something

Steve

AMA SAFETY CODE A. General: 1. Model aircraft will not be flown in a careless or reckless manner.

AMA SAFETY CODE B. RADIO CONTROL: ITEM # 6: .......... no powered model may be flown outdoors closer than 25 feet to any individual, except for the pilot and the pilot's helper(s) located at the flightline.

Those are RULES !

That sounds like the FINAL word in this Thread ........

I'm a bit confused. Since the first post mentioned that the airplane stayed 50 to 75 feet away from the crowd, is it your argument that no rule was broken and therefore no intervention by the CD was necessary ? Because I think it is a bad idea to fly toward the crowd. I think he did the correct thing in speaking up. The question remains whether he clearly and calmly communicated his instructions to the pilot(s) that he was in charge of. That is the key question of this entire thread as far as I am concerned.

That is exactly what a few of us have been discussing; LEADERSHIP. How do you get people to do what it is you want them to do. You aren't selling them something. This isn't a con-game. They either see something in you that they respect or they don't see it. It is either in you or it is not. And if it is not, you cannot force them to respect you. You cannot wave your arms and make high pitch noises to get their attention. Forget about tantrums and confrontations. Your words, your actions, and your ideas are what people respect. Not someone else's ideas.

Every club needs a good CLERK. The guy that revels in the minutia. The one that likes to think small. Great guy to have around and very very handy. But don't expect him to lead . That simply isn't his calling. He is like Radar O'Rielly. He is Indispensable . But he simply isn't a leader.

None of it matters "What part of U don't fly toword the flight line EVER" do some people not understand..............
simple no explanation, measurement or defining at the Pilots meeting needed ....,.
U just never never ever fly toward the flight line on PURPOSES PERIOD ........

It is just that your earlier posts were a tad ambiguous . Thanks for making your position clear. How do you turn around ?

NERO ZERO:
U Turn around in the pattern past the ends of the flight line or the ends of the runway if persons or objects such as cars extend past the flight line... U NEVER NEVER NEVER Intentionally Fly at the flight line ....

Come on now U are just baiting me right U do see the common sense of NEVER flying at the flight line RIGHT?

No matter how long your oval racetrack pattern is, for one brief moment during one of the two turns, you are going to be headed towards the pits. Only way to avoid it is to do split S or immelman or half Cuban turnsrounds, or to fly a figure 8 pattern. This is not the problem we are discussing, though.

I'm going to have to remove my self from this rediculas thread before i get sanctioned (again)
BY BUY BYE

How do you do figure eights?

[QUOTE=HoundDog;11693765] U NEVER NEVER NEVER Intentionally Fly at the flight line
[QUOTE]

What are you calling the flight line ? Do you mean the pilot stations ? IF that is what you are saying then I think we agree. But it is my understanding that the flight line continues out beyond the ends of the runway. BTW, there is no need to be abusive .

Making vague and dogmatic assertions is unlikely to yield positive results, (at an event or in daily flying). Explain to the pilots clearly and concisely what you expect. Then expect questions from them. Remember that a question should not be considered an offense. Answer the questions. Converse. Make certain that the numerous parties do in fact understand each other. Be a leader. Leading often entails a certain amount of teaching and patience. Share your understanding with your brothers for you are their keeper.

To walk away in discuss because a question was asked, frankly, would be a failure on the part of the CD.

Can you show me ONE??? Just one case where someone was sued for this........... JUST ONE.................

Isn't there a paragraph in the AMA Guidelines where it says that a pilot shall not fly Towards the pits, people, crowd, etc.....???? I am going to have to look for this... But I was thinking there was something in there about this issue we are talking about 4 pages later and going........

Just about all these things turn into this is what is going on at our club or this is what should be done. How about if I was Boss I would do this or that. A club is only as good as the members allow it to be. Many of you have observed clubs grow and developed. Become a great place to fly. Many have seen good clubs turn into bad club because of all the things mentioned. Favouritism for example. A hero flyer and his buddies taking over and running good folks off. It is going to happen if the good guys don't stand up and be counted. However most walk off not wanting to cause trouble. Well I don't and I won't. We have a great place. Not because of me. Because of like minded people like me. Stand up and be counted!

A very good point.

And as I think someone pointed out the "flight line" is a line that typically extends from horizon to horizon...The reason I reintegrate the point; I've been to a number of large events that the final turn flight path would be inadvertently directed at persons parked/pitting/positioned parallel to flight line...sometimes hundreds of yards past the end of the runway.

I have been a CD for a long time and have done many different events. The fact that the OP asked his question show his disire to do a fare job.
No one but him can answer his question because he's the only one that was there.
When you have done enough events you learn to spot the good pilots and the ones to watch. This means you spend less time trying to watch everyone.
I have one rule for myself "if it makes me nervous, then I say something" When I go home at night, I'm the only one I need to please. That also goes for my flying.
No one can second guess you, and don't let them.
Always remmeber the whole purpose of the events to to have fun. I work hard to not lose sight of this.

I agree 100% with you!! YOU..... You are the CD, the one in charge, the one that is accountable for all, you are above ALL the officers in charge at this point. Now, saying all that...... I would have gone up to the SAFTEY OFFICER and got him in on this!
YOU and the SAFTEY OFFICER should have watched and observed what this pilot was doing. Than the 2 of you should have went together to ground this pilot. It only takes one vote, but 2 makes it easier on the both of you... You have to stand for what you believe in, or you will be second guessing everything

Now the person that talks about the figure 8.... YOU are just being silly! what we are talking about here is making a direct flight path to the pits.... I do not understand why some always wants to take post off the path that they are asking for... It is beyond me.. But maybe its a little childish game they like to play.....
This is my 3 cents worth......

That's all anyone can ask of a good CD!

No one is questioning if it is alright to fly directly at the pits. If you go back and actually read the posts on this page you will see that HoundDog has stated that a pilot may "never never never" fly toward the flight line. We inquired how that is physically possible. So far, no one has been able to answer the question. There is also some question as to the length of the flight line and what about pits and spectators that may extend for hundreds of feet in either direction of the pilot stations . A reasonable person might conclude that a pilot might eventually be aimed at the flight line. As for the figure 8. That is a legal maneuver. As are others that momentarily aim the plane inward toward the flight line. How can an airplane be flown so that all turns are away from the flight line. It cannot. Perhaps that is why the AMA has not written such a rule.

I am not saying that a pilot flying at the crowd and then yanking up isn't scary and even perhaps performing an unsafe maneuver. I would certainly go ask him to stop doing that. That is pretty clear cut. We all seem to agree about that. But what about a line that only shallowly approaches the Flight Line and at a distance further than the AMA requirements, say 200 feet out. And without the yanking immelmann .There seems to be no way to express or define the exact point at which a maneuver crosses the line into the realm of unsafe. And certainly the blanket statement of "never never never" be aimed at the Flight line is the absolute that cannot be met.

I forget who made the statement about defining pornography. They said, "I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it". Well, that seems to be the standard here as well. There is a point when we can see something is unsafe. But actually defining that point is very difficult and writing it is even more difficult. So then the question becomes ; How do you hold a person in contempt for not understanding what cannot be spoken ? I would say the answer is to approach them and ask them , politely, to not do "that" any more. That thing you just did. We would prefer you didn't do that any more. There is no need to judge their intend or if it was malicious. It is all a matter of perspective and their perspective might be slightly different. They may have forgotten the size of the crowd today. Just tell them to stop. It isn't a big deal.

I think you pretty much nailed it. I see you are fairly new to RCU. I want to say welcome and hope you stick around.

After reading your post , I just have one advice . myself been cd , president , and vice for my car club , and airplane club, I have been in the middle of similar and various variations of the same problem . One a senior officer doing flying detrimental to the club , safety rules , our insurance , ect, and no one opens their mouth because who he is . Then and only then it is the responsibily of all other senior officers to let him know , without ruffling feathers , it's political , it has to do with pecking order , all clubs have them , yes, he is setting a bad example but because of who he is , no one says a word. I have been able to resolve this believe it or not with humor. And a nudge about hey are you trying to give those guys a new haircut. Or did your wife have you in the doghouse. Cause your flying angry. Are you trying to win all the trophies this year? Hey let me help you get the spider that crawled up your pants out , it's messing up your flying , He will get the message , take him to the side , don't yell at him , ask him to help you with something. Get him to land , I have resolved a lot of issues like this with humor , with diplomacy , even arguments between flyers . After all we are supposed to be having fun , aren't we. Thanks Nachman.

You are very right...a little humor can do miracles but may take more time than is available during an event. Although not an AMA CD, I have no problem talking to another man like a man about their flying. I have had the need, as just a regular guy to ask someone to modify their flying some...and guess what??? Never a problem having them alter their "style" once given real reasons as to why a change should be made.

I have had to take action even when the actual safety coordinator was just talking crap (little girl crying) with his buds about what he will do...pathetic!