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Contest Director and problem flyer

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Contest Director and problem flyer

Old 01-07-2014, 10:19 AM
  #176  
TexasAirBoss
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not mine

Last edited by TexasAirBoss; 01-10-2014 at 02:00 PM.
Old 01-07-2014, 01:44 PM
  #177  
thebest_102
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Maybe I was not as clear as I thought. It should be a mutual thing for clubs and CD's. WHile yes a club can not host the event It would be no real issue to move it to another club. As with most clubs I have seen they only have 1 or 2 cd's and if the cd's don't want the event then the club does not get a sanction. For a funfly that would be no big deal it just won't be sanctioned but for a NSRCA or IMAC contest that could be a different story. My only point in all that is the club and the CD need to work together. If the CD thinks the club is unsafe he may not submitt for a sanction if the club dislikes the CD then they can stop the event as well.
Old 01-07-2014, 03:22 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by thebest_102 View Post
Maybe I was not as clear as I thought. It should be a mutual thing for clubs and CD's. WHile yes a club can not host the event It would be no real issue to move it to another club. As with most clubs I have seen they only have 1 or 2 cd's and if the cd's don't want the event then the club does not get a sanction. For a funfly that would be no big deal it just won't be sanctioned but for a NSRCA or IMAC contest that could be a different story. My only point in all that is the club and the CD need to work together. If the CD thinks the club is unsafe he may not submitt for a sanction if the club dislikes the CD then they can stop the event as well.
Originally Posted by Bob Pastorello View Post
Yep...agree.
But...what if the "offender" takes up the issue with the Site Owners?
Well, one might have a very difficult time finding an AMA club that would take him as a member if the word got out that he was responsible for a club losing it's field. The grapevine between club officers usually works pretty well to identify potential problem members. It's not as if the club that lost the field would keep it secret as to who caused the problem. And you would expect that the club would enlist the help of their AVP and DVP along with Tony Stillman to try to keep the field. Yes, I would speculate that any club member that did try to use the landowner as leverage would be pretty much screwed as to his flying future at AMA clubs.
Old 01-08-2014, 08:42 AM
  #179  
TexasAirBoss
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not mine

Last edited by TexasAirBoss; 01-10-2014 at 02:00 PM.
Old 01-08-2014, 03:04 PM
  #180  
Thomas B
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Originally Posted by thebest_102 View Post
LD 24 is right about all with one exception. It is not the club that files with the AMA for a Sanction it is the CD. The club and their field are just a place, the CD is the AMA's bellybutton to push. It is not the club's responsibility to file a follow-on report to the AMA. That is on the CD. On the follow-on report it does however specifically ask if anyone was ejected from the event and to describe it. .......
Technically what you are saying is true, but in reality, at least at every club I have been at, the event CD is nearly always a club member and the event is sponsored by the club and the CD is the CD of the event not only on behalf of the AMA, but is responsible to the club as well for running the event properly.

I agree that AMA rules and event rules are the ones in effect during an event. In fact, at our club, we have a few events that allow slightly different things under the event rules than during normal flying. For instance, at an electric event, we allow as many electric warbirds to fly at at the same time as there are pilots willing to fly the. Normally, we only allow 5 models to be be flown at once, but the Warbird Roundup is great fun with 15-20 in the air at once in the pattern. Has been done without incident a number of times around here.
Old 01-20-2014, 04:52 AM
  #181  
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I'm the original poster of this thread. The incidence related in post # 1, has been remedied, by open discussion with the club members. I have not been back here to post anything further as I felt the contentious nature of some of the people making comment here was not worth the effort. Also, some of you hold to facts in your mind, as opposed to facts in reality and unfortunately this is precisely what caused this problem in the first place. I strongly urge you to read over the AMA's description of the Contest Directors duties to educate yourself on this topic.
Old 01-20-2014, 05:07 AM
  #182  
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Glad to hear the open discussion led to a remidy... Whatever that is.
Old 01-20-2014, 05:57 AM
  #183  
Bob Pastorello
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Originally Posted by pfalzaflyer View Post
I'm the original poster of this thread. The incidence related in post # 1, has been remedied, by open discussion with the club members. I have not been back here to post anything further as I felt the contentious nature of some of the people making comment here was not worth the effort. Also, some of you hold to facts in your mind, as opposed to facts in reality and unfortunately this is precisely what caused this problem in the first place. I strongly urge you to read over the AMA's description of the Contest Directors duties to educate yourself on this topic.
The last line of your original post - "I really don't know what to do and am asking people with more experience in these matters, how to handle this!"

You asked a "contentious" sort of question relating to one of the most challenging areas of event management....and only got 8 pages of blather in return. Not too bad. Perhaps you should have stopped by sooner to let everyone know what you thought of their replies; may have helped focus the discussion in a more helpful direction. Good luck to you.
Old 01-20-2014, 02:32 PM
  #184  
DRC1
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Originally Posted by pfalzaflyer View Post
I'm the original poster of this thread. The incidence related in post # 1, has been remedied, by open discussion with the club members. I have not been back here to post anything further as I felt the contentious nature of some of the people making comment here was not worth the effort. Also, some of you hold to facts in your mind, as opposed to facts in reality and unfortunately this is precisely what caused this problem in the first place. I strongly urge you to read over the AMA's description of the Contest Directors duties to educate yourself on this topic.
Sounds like the best possible outcome using the best possible method to resolve the issue...

Congrats to your club and wish your club well in safely promoting future events for all involved.

LD24
Old 01-21-2014, 02:08 PM
  #185  
Red Scholefield
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
One of the things that I have always pondered is why every club hosted event seems to feel a need to have a Contest Director...especially events that aren't even contests. We, our club, have had many events with someone simply named ED (event director)...FWIW we haven't had many actual "contest" type events but the few we have still didn't have an official AMA CD presiding over it, as they weren't AMA rulebook events... I know, I know...there will be those that just love the sound of "our event is sanctioned" but for many just for "fun events" the event coordination(area protection) that a sanction is normally used for is not necessary.
In the real world of clubs there are very few that will willingly rise to the call, "who will volunteer to run the event?". Clubs that are fortunate enough to have one or more CDs can count on them to take on the task. Clubs that don't have anyone that has bellied up to the bar to become a CD are faced with a constant "recruiting" problem to shame someone into taking on the duties for whatever events they are planning. I suppose there are clubs in never-never land that have no problem in getting someone to volunteer. For those of us less fortunate, we have to depend on someone that has already demonstrated an interest in leading an event, our club CD.
Old 01-21-2014, 06:00 PM
  #186  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by Red Scholefield View Post
In the real world of clubs there are very few that will willingly rise to the call, "who will volunteer to run the event?". Clubs that are fortunate enough to have one or more CDs can count on them to take on the task. Clubs that don't have anyone that has bellied up to the bar to become a CD are faced with a constant "recruiting" problem to shame someone into taking on the duties for whatever events they are planning. I suppose there are clubs in never-never land that have no problem in getting someone to volunteer. For those of us less fortunate, we have to depend on someone that has already demonstrated an interest in leading an event, our club CD.
Very true for most clubs I would imagine but it seems most events don't really need official CDs (Contest Directors)...those, however many that would be CDs, could still do very much the same thing... Its not so much a CD problem...as you pointed out it is people willing to do whatever...CD or not. Being a CD does not obligate them to do anything... Actually, the very notion that events must have CDs may be part of the problem... as the average guy thinks he can't ED an event.
Old 01-22-2014, 11:25 AM
  #187  
crash99
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After reading these posts it is amazing to see the problems you all see. The question that has not been asked is what is the cause of the problem? There always a cause and effect to everything in this world.

i would say the effecting all of the problems here is a form of Attitude. Attitude - a settled way of thinking or feeling about someone or something, typically one that reflected in a person's behavior.

I ask myself is the attitude a city person? No that can not be it. We have many City Flyers attending our events and some come down and fly with us when visiting their lake home.

How about the profile and hard core 3D flying group, no that can not be it. We have many in our club and many that visit during events. Could it be the sport or warbird flyers? No that can not be it as well. Then what could cause the problems you see?

Could it be the club or maybe the CD of the event? I can not say for sure but that is what is left. I only know I am lucky to belong to such a fun group of guys and I have never had to use a Thor hammer Attitude to ensure we have safe, fun events thw whole family enjoys.

So if the effect is bad attitude from the flyer then the cause could be as simple as a bad CD or Club.

crash99
Old 01-22-2014, 11:28 AM
  #188  
Red Scholefield
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
SNIP... Actually, the very notion that events must have CDs may be part of the problem... as the average guy thinks he can't ED an event.
Herein lies the problem, those that have the notion that events must have a CD are in all likelihood probably too lazy to manage an event.

Last edited by Red Scholefield; 01-23-2014 at 01:51 PM. Reason: Hoss is probably right, too lazy rather than not smart enough.
Old 01-22-2014, 06:51 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by Red Scholefield View Post
Herein lies the problem, those that have the notion that events must have a CD are in all likelihood probably not smart enough to manage an event.
Funny...it most CDs that think so...That's usually why they are CDs LOL
Old 01-23-2014, 07:57 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
Funny...it most CDs that think so...That's usually why they are CDs LOL
Originally Posted by Red Scholefield View Post
Herein lies the problem, those that have the notion that events must have a CD are in all likelihood probably not smart enough to manage an event.
Red, I do disagree with your statement. Should you remove "... not smart enough ..." to something like " ...90% of club members are simply too daxn lazy... to do anything outside of playing with their toys", then maybe you would be at least 99% correct. I belong to one club that has one CD. He does the initial paperwork and the members take up the labors, but that club is only around 30 members, all good buddies. I don't do much with that club since they are 75 miles away, but it is in my home-town. I do attend all their events and some meetings and help when I can.
My main club (Over 100 members) use to have folks that jumped into the chores. In today's world I estimate that at least 90% of the membership will not turn a hand to do anything. Some may show up for the AM Doughnuts and Coffee, a bit of chatting, but then GONE when the event starts, just like when the CD asks for help as far as a couple months prior. The RCer of today may have the smarts, but the "Git 'er DONE!" falls on less than 5% of the RC group.
Don't forget that to have a really good event, there has to be a lot of publicity sent out, such as AMA's MA event listing, various web sites and clubs notified, obtaining agreements concerning the event within the Host Club, obtaining awards and such, setting up the field a day before the event, which makes the do-nothing but fly folks mad as the field is not available for them at their specific hour. The CD has to organize it all BEFORE the event.
There are a lot of pre-event chores, and they are usually left up to the CD to accomplish everything. If anyone here wishes to match records of being a CD, well I am ready to discuss it. My CD came in March of 1963. I have not missed a year CDing at least one event per year, except 1968, and I have financed events more than not.
Just looking over a wood- plaque that was awarded to me some years ago. It is a carved eagle flying over a forest with cumulus cloud background. The words are "Leaders are like Eagles, they don't flock, you find them one at a time." That goes for the ACTIVE AMA Contest Director!
Old 01-23-2014, 11:34 AM
  #191  
crash99
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Mr. Cain,

That is just not true. Maybe in your club! Our is nothing like that. If something needs to get done you just have to ask if it setting up an event. If its a daily thing you don't even have to ask. So don't compare us that belong to a good club to the way you see things happening. Attitude could be the simple answer here.

Crash99
Old 01-23-2014, 12:26 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by crash99 View Post
Mr. Cain,

That is just not true. Maybe in your club! Our is nothing like that. If something needs to get done you just have to ask if it setting up an event. If its a daily thing you don't even have to ask. So don't compare us that belong to a good club to the way you see things happening. Attitude could be the simple answer here.

Crash99
I wouldn't spend a lot of energy debating a few posters in the AMA Discussions Forum. All one needs to do is to review the threads going all the way back through 10 years. You will see the same folks hijack a thread and create drama with irrelevant useless fodder.

Just watch who takes a nibble from this bait (post). Then you will know who I'm speaking about or just make up your own mind reviewing the last 10 years of posts in the AMA Discussion Forum... I quit posting here many years ago, because it was a useless forum. Thought things may have changed, but after further review... Nahhh... same-o-same-o

With that said, Hossfly's post may very well be the norm at many clubs around the USA. What we don't see is that clubs are as diverse as any subculture. Some are good and some not so good. I presume that for as many clubs that are like Hossfly suggests, there are an equal amount that are much better. My club is one of the good ones. I have been around this country and have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly with clubs... No reason to single any of them out. The club in Evansville, IN is by far one of the best in the country.

Food for thought... "Perception is reality, truth be damned". Meaning how someone perceives things to be is their truth or reality. However, it doesn't mean it applies to the universe. It's all relative as they say...

My .02 worth... As my favorite comedian always says, "It is only my opinion, I could be wrong"

I'm glad to see the original poster of this thread was able to resolve the Club's issue at hand. That is what's important on this thread

LD24
Old 01-23-2014, 12:50 PM
  #193  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by LD24 View Post

Just watch who takes a nibble from this bait (post).

LD24
I would never fall for the bait! Dang, I just did it...crap...

Oh well, I am probably one of those you mention... So I guess its only fitting I explain myself some.

Originally I came to RCU like most others...Just wanting to learn and share what little I knew about RC modeling. One day I happened on to this forum and was soon appalled at the contempt people here had for Non-AMA modelers. It seemed every word was orchestrated to deride the NON AMA modeler. Many times outright calling them irresponsible ingrates... I was then and have been an AMA member ever since. I find that mindset to be so very counter to the real core of what the Academy is truly about. Sure, it depends on interpretation but you have to start somewhere. I always seem to find myself trying to undo double standards and slighted subjectivity...and this place is rich in that vein...

Last edited by littlecrankshaf; 01-23-2014 at 12:53 PM.
Old 01-23-2014, 01:10 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by crash99 View Post
Mr. Cain,

That is just not true. Maybe in your club! Our is nothing like that. If something needs to get done you just have to ask if it setting up an event. If its a daily thing you don't even have to ask. So don't compare us that belong to a good club to the way you see things happening. Attitude could be the simple answer here.

Crash99
What is not true, Crash? I stated that I belong to 2 clubs (actually 3 but #3 is simply financial support) and the small one - 30 members does everything great.
OTOH, my main club, while many, 100+/- members, only a handful, maybe 5-6 will step up to be counted -on event day/s - and try to assist the CDs. One does a War Bird, I only do a Competition Fun Fly, and another NEW - 2013 year - CD did our very good event for Wounded Warriors, yet as Club VP he does a "L" of a lot more. Other than about 5 folks including me are there to assist/do what he needs. I go to a number of Fly-INS each year and I only see few folks out there doing the work. The CD is usually running like a rabbit in front of a couple Hound-Dogs. It is the extra work prior to the event that can drain one's time for the good of those that enjoy the event but do no help in the club on getting things all set-up.
Now I have no reason to waste time with arguments to any more such small items. Sounds like you have a great Club. Enjoy it and help out the officers and CDs.
In addition please notice that my item was to argue Red's point that so many are not smart enough to assist in event management. It is not "smart" it's simply lazy.

Last edited by Hossfly; 01-23-2014 at 01:14 PM.

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