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Contest Director and problem flyer

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Contest Director and problem flyer

Old 01-04-2014, 08:52 AM
  #126  
CafeenMan
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I have two very low maintenance cats and have trouble finding time for them. Usually about the time I'm falling asleep they decide that's when they will get some time so they both lay on top of me.
Old 01-04-2014, 08:56 AM
  #127  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by CafeenMan View Post
I have two very low maintenance cats and have trouble finding time for them. Usually about the time I'm falling asleep they decide that's when they will get some time so they both lay on top of me.
I suspect you do more "leading" than most...Maybe not in an official capacity but by "example".
Old 01-04-2014, 12:01 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by littlecrankshaf View Post
Thanks Hoss. I really appreciate the invite. It just may happen as it would be really cool to hang out with you after all these years and besides I kind of owe some of those guys down there a visit. XXXX
Been awhile since I've flown at a fun-fly competition as the last few here wouldn't allow 3D planes...and it seems any plane I had fit the criteria...whatever that was...
This event is 4 rounds, each round with 2 tasks. Just for your 3D in 4th round, if you don't want the old crud models that will be available for the 4th round, or you can use a 3D plane (In any round actually).
4TH Round will consist of 2 tasks and those tasks are "PAINTBALL", guns and ammo furnished. There could be some changes to the tasks yet but PAINTBALL will happen, maybe not last round depending on weather. As my invited guess, your entry fee and lunch is complimentary. Looking forward to the meeting.
Old 01-04-2014, 01:00 PM
  #129  
skywagn180
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You need to be very careful in this situation. Determining what is careless and wreckles is not clearly defined and is very subjective. Acting as a CD for the AMA at a sanctioned event you are making that determination. Your opinion and how you handle it are going to come under fire if you don't handle it well. My question to you is whether you believe the flying was within the safe flying boundaries established, under positive control, within the reasonably tested limitations of the aircraft structurally, within your established rules for the field and at the pilot meeting and was not done with an intent of causing harm or putting anyone in immediate danger? If so, I would not consider that wreckless or careless and I agree with the pilot. You should have made your expectation clear in the pilots meeting if you did not want planes approaching toward the safety line. There is no official rule against this and again is very subjective. At that point you may be putting unfair restrictions on the other flyers though. Are you going to tell 3d flyers they cant approach the flight line inverted at a walking pace and push up to a hover. That popular manuever is here to stay and is very safe. Clearly from your statement you had a previous opinion of this person and did not like their flying style. It is not fair to place such prejudice on a fellow flyer while acting as a CD. Now if he or she was obviously, intentionally and consistently wreckless during the event, it is appropriate to speak up and you were responsible in doing so. How you do it is important. People don't like to be touched while they are flying (which is usually more dangerous than the incident you are trying to prevent), told they are wrong, ridiculed for something unintentional or chastised for what you let your buddy do all the time. You have to use care in how you approach such challenges. I prefer the technique of self blame. Basically I would privately say, "hey, I should have been more clear. I wanted to cover in the pilots' meeting that because there are so many spectators here and we are pushing the limits of the airspace today, I was thinking we should all avoid flying torward the flight line at high speed. Are you okay with that? I'm just going around letting everyone know. Sorry man." As an additional or other option, you can make an announcement to everyone saying you forgot to cover it. This is just one example of many ways of softening the blow. No one likes to be told what to do out there. There is nothing worse than an AMA bully, especially one making up rules. Being CD isn't for everyone. I haven't done it yet, but I've seen good and bad CDs. It's a tough job. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I blame a lot of that on the unchecked cultural problems that exist by people self deputizing themselves as uninformed AMA Police and enforcing outdated or non-existent rules. Another major issue is aggressively policing rules that are inadvertently or unintentionally broke, which is the easiest way to irritate someone at the field. There's nothing like rubbing salt in the wound of embarrassment to drive members crazy, or away all together.
Old 01-04-2014, 03:00 PM
  #130  
TexasAirBoss
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not my post

Last edited by TexasAirBoss; 01-10-2014 at 02:02 PM.
Old 01-04-2014, 04:47 PM
  #131  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
Does the AMA insurance cover an event when you intentionally shoot at the airplanes ? This sounds a little sketchy, if that is what you meant to say.
Yes...AMA recognizes such events...the planes just can't shoot back though. LOL
Old 01-04-2014, 08:25 PM
  #132  
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not my post

Last edited by TexasAirBoss; 01-10-2014 at 02:03 PM.
Old 01-04-2014, 09:16 PM
  #133  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
So, I assume the shooter's insurance is primary in the event a wounded bird ends up in someone's skull. Or have the courts settled this yet ?
Not sure how to answer all insurance questions but here is an AMA document that outlines one way paintball has been done at a fairly well known California club: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/535-k.pdf
Old 01-04-2014, 09:46 PM
  #134  
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not my post

Last edited by TexasAirBoss; 01-10-2014 at 02:03 PM.
Old 01-04-2014, 09:52 PM
  #135  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
Wow. Specially constructed aircraft, specially trained pilots, safety officers from the paint ball company, safety cages. Those are some steep guidelines. This sounds like quite a production for the ordinary Fun-Fly.
You're right. When we did it here it was much different.
Old 01-05-2014, 10:10 AM
  #136  
TexasAirBoss
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not my post

Last edited by TexasAirBoss; 01-10-2014 at 02:03 PM.
Old 01-05-2014, 10:17 AM
  #137  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
You say the AMA recognizes such events. Do you mean they approve them ? Even if the safety precautions listed on their website are not in place ? Because it still seem like a sketchy idea without the barriers, etc.
Well... I think the document proves they recognize the activity occurs ...few specific rules may exist... I think AMA realizes that we typically make good choices about safety.
Old 01-05-2014, 10:55 AM
  #138  
TexasAirBoss
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hacked post

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:02 AM
  #139  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
Lets imagine that my club is hosting such an event. And the CD has provided none of the safety precautions listed on the AMA. I certainly wouldn't participate. So there I am watching a Fun-Fly with an activity that appears dangerous and unsafe . What is my responsibility as a club member ?
you will have to answer the question for yourself...there really are times that our lives aren't under full control by someone else.
Old 01-05-2014, 11:19 AM
  #140  
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:30 AM
  #141  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
I forget where I read a post that stated safety was every members responsibility and not just that of the safety officer or club officers. So, my question is what can I do if I see a officer/CD conducting unsafe operations/maneuvers ? I'm not asking if I should take action. My question is whether or not I have the authority to take action simply because I deem the activity unsafe ? Otherwise, I suppose the safety is everyone's responsibility viewpoint is nothing but hot air, isn't it.
You can always express your concerns or choose not to participate.
Old 01-05-2014, 11:39 AM
  #142  
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check the official AMA event calendar and you will find events with RC paintball
Old 01-05-2014, 11:41 AM
  #143  
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:43 AM
  #144  
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:57 AM
  #145  
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Old 01-05-2014, 12:01 PM
  #146  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
We aren't disputing the AMA allows the activity. We are discussing a situation where none of the listed AMA guidelines were observed.
Ok...we've evolved from whether or not AMA allows such activities... Now, let's consider that the aforementioned document may not be as safe as possible. Still with me? Our event was much safer than the one described in the document submitted by the Corona club...And we used very little of the precautions prescribed... What can we learn from that? Safety or what is considered safe is subjective...and there isn't always a clear cut answer. You may feel something isn't safe or safe enough but others may see it as fine...That's the reality of the infinite world we live in.
Old 01-05-2014, 12:12 PM
  #147  
Hossfly
 
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Originally Posted by skywagn180 View Post
You need to be very careful in this situation. Determining what is careless and wreckles is not clearly defined and is very subjective. Acting as a CD for the AMA at a sanctioned event you are making that determination.
XXXXX xxxx xxxx xxxx xxx
Another major issue is aggressively policing rules that are inadvertently or unintentionally broke, which is the easiest way to irritate someone at the field. There's nothing like rubbing salt in the wound of embarrassment to drive members crazy, or away all together.
Mr. Skywagn 180: Thanks for the very informative dissertation which I am answering because it falls right after my post. Your choice of writing without any form of paragraph and/or association of thought makes me wonder if you were answering to me, "Hossfly", or possibly the original poster of this forum.

Therefore I offer several comments pertaining to me.
(1) I am a Life Member of AMA, yet I donate considerably more each year to AMA and its facilities. I follow AMA rules and regs. as well as I can.
(2) I have been an AMA Contest Director for 3 months short of 51 years from very small local events through Manpower Director and Assistant Director at The AMA Nationals, plus both elected AMA Official (DVP, Dist VI 2 terms), and appointed positions throughout these years.
(3) In my 41 years of USAF and Airline Pilot career I have been well versed in Safety and I do my best to take Safety VERY seriously, yet I also entertain any and all offerings from those having also enjoyed actual experience in those areas where safety is a needed application especially when so many individuals either ignore or simply not versed in the need for extraordinary Safety needs. You know such as "text-ting" while driving.
(4) Therefore my paint ball set-up will always have a possibility of having an accident. I would never call anything accident-proof. Why do you think Pylon Racing has so many rules. A very good friend of mine had a control failure, the aircraft did a big loop and came into the pylon cage killing a very fine person. SHOT happens. I do not want such to happen to you, me or anyone else.

Again, Thanks for the information.
Old 01-05-2014, 12:51 PM
  #148  
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Flying towards a flight-line is innocuous.

The problem is performing high-energy manoeuvres towards the flight-line ... 'cos these manoeuvres naturally entail the risk of departure from controlled flight.

So, you don't dive towards the flight-line, then pull into a loop. You don't fly towards the crowd, then roll into a steep turn or start a flick roll.

Simply flying towards a crowd is pretty much unavoidable.
Old 01-05-2014, 01:36 PM
  #149  
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Old 01-05-2014, 02:05 PM
  #150  
littlecrankshaf
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Originally Posted by NeroZero View Post
Judging an activity as safe or unsafe is always subjective. We agree. I never suggested it wasn't.

I simply said that any club member can make that judgment. And , as someone has stated earlier, it is that club members duty to act on it.

Wether or not other clubs allow the activity is completely irrelevant.
With that I think we've come full circle as it pertains to this thread's topic.

The CD or whatever the event director title has the obligation to conduct an AMA event within the AMA rules and within his judgement for what is safe for the environment of that particular event. He can also entertain any reasonable suggestion from anyone to make things safer. As a participant you have a responsibility to determine whether you will support the event and stay or leave. Of course we could just not have any events to insure maximum safety...just assume the fetal position in the corner of our shop, unplug all electrical devices and shiver in the cold...

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