Drone VS Aircraft - Mid Air Collisions
#501
Who are you to determine if someone is in need of medical attention or not? This person could very well have had high blood pressure or diabetes. Either one would be a contributing factor. Especially Diabetes as infections are a serious matter. Burns are very suseptable to infection and it would be a wise decision to get the burn properly cleaned.
The point is that there very well could have been some underlying health issues beside the burn.
The point is that there very well could have been some underlying health issues beside the burn.
#502
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Any burn affecting more than 5% of the body is the key part of that. The way it is worded is vague as to the extent of second degree burns. Having had several small second degree burns in the past. Including one involving my entire hand, I do not consider this serious. As someone said a common cigarette burn is usually second degree, sometimes a third degree burn.
Of course you are again making mountains out of mole hills!
Of course you are again making mountains out of mole hills!
#504
Read it for yourself, 49 USC 830.
§830.5 Immediate notification.The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office,1 when:
(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur:"
The law provides the following in the "Definitions" section:
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein."
Unmanned aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of any public or civil unmanned aircraft system that takes place between the time that the system is activated with the purpose of flight and the time that the system is deactivated at the conclusion of its mission, in which:
(1) Any person suffers death or serious injury; or
(2) The aircraft has a maximum gross takeoff weight of 300 pounds or greater and sustains substantial damage
Serious injury means any injury which:
(1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the injury was received;
(2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose);
(3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage;
(4) involves any internal organ; or
(5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface."
[emphasis added]
If you can show me where "model aircraft" are exempted from this statute, then I'm all ears. Some may not like what it says, and some may choose to ignore it, but it, but that doesn't change what the law actually says.
So, in the case of the turbine crash that produced second degree burns:
- Aircraft accident (involving unmanned aircraft) as defined in 49 USC 830? - YES
- Did it result in a serious injury as defined in 49 USC 830? - YES
- Was reporting required? - YES
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...dno=49;cc=ecfr
#505
Any burn affecting more than 5% of the body is the key part of that. The way it is worded is vague as to the extent of second degree burns. Having had several small second degree burns in the past. Including one involving my entire hand, I do not consider this serious. As someone said a common cigarette burn is usually second degree, sometimes a third degree burn.
Of course you are again making mountains out of mole hills!
Of course you are again making mountains out of mole hills!
#507
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Read it for yourself, 49 USC 830.
§830.5 Immediate notification.The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office,1 when:
(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur:"
The law provides the following in the "Definitions" section:
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein."
Unmanned aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of any public or civil unmanned aircraft system that takes place between the time that the system is activated with the purpose of flight and the time that the system is deactivated at the conclusion of its mission, in which:
(1) Any person suffers death or serious injury; or
(2) The aircraft has a maximum gross takeoff weight of 300 pounds or greater and sustains substantial damage
Serious injury means any injury which:
(1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the injury was received;
(2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose);
(3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage;
(4) involves any internal organ; or
(5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface."
[emphasis added]
If you can show me where "model aircraft" are exempted from this statute, then I'm all ears. Some may not like what it says, and some may choose to ignore it, but it, but that doesn't change what the law actually says.
So, in the case of the turbine crash that produced second degree burns:
- Aircraft accident (involving unmanned aircraft) as defined in 49 USC 830? - YES
- Did it result in a serious injury as defined in 49 USC 830? - YES
- Was reporting required? - YES
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...dno=49;cc=ecfr
§830.5 Immediate notification.The operator of any civil aircraft, or any public aircraft not operated by the Armed Forces or an intelligence agency of the United States, or any foreign aircraft shall immediately, and by the most expeditious means available, notify the nearest National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) office,1 when:
(a) An aircraft accident or any of the following listed serious incidents occur:"
The law provides the following in the "Definitions" section:
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of “aircraft accident” includes “unmanned aircraft accident,” as defined herein."
Unmanned aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of any public or civil unmanned aircraft system that takes place between the time that the system is activated with the purpose of flight and the time that the system is deactivated at the conclusion of its mission, in which:
(1) Any person suffers death or serious injury; or
(2) The aircraft has a maximum gross takeoff weight of 300 pounds or greater and sustains substantial damage
Serious injury means any injury which:
(1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date of the injury was received;
(2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose);
(3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage;
(4) involves any internal organ; or
(5) involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface."
[emphasis added]
If you can show me where "model aircraft" are exempted from this statute, then I'm all ears. Some may not like what it says, and some may choose to ignore it, but it, but that doesn't change what the law actually says.
So, in the case of the turbine crash that produced second degree burns:
- Aircraft accident (involving unmanned aircraft) as defined in 49 USC 830? - YES
- Did it result in a serious injury as defined in 49 USC 830? - YES
- Was reporting required? - YES
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...dno=49;cc=ecfr
#508
Maybe they were expecting someone to use some common sense?
I think for some that is too much to ask.
#510
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Quite possible, it however is amusing that you still can't come up with a solution to bird strikes even though you are quite passionate on the subject and how Sport completly ignored my request for his medical credentials. Statements without reasonable evidence are pretty much empty.
#512
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Quite possible, it however is amusing that you still can't come up with a solution to bird strikes even though you are quite passionate on the subject and how Sport completly ignored my request for his medical credentials. Statements without reasonable evidence are pretty much empty.
#513
Quite possible, it however is amusing that you still can't come up with a solution to bird strikes even though you are quite passionate on the subject and how Sport completly ignored my request for his medical credentials. Statements without reasonable evidence are pretty much empty.
Clearly not enough to make a federal case of.
#514
Quite possible, it however is amusing that you still can't come up with a solution to bird strikes even though you are quite passionate on the subject and how Sport completly ignored my request for his medical credentials. Statements without reasonable evidence are pretty much empty.
#515
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OK Mike, let me repeat this a THIRD time! I agree that birds are an issue. Now since Chris is unable to explain a viable solution so far perhaps you can?
IMO the risk of birds and the risk of R/C aircraft are two different things. The birds are just being birds looking for food. The MR/drone is a human being using poor judgement. In my eyes it is never acceptable for one person to put another person at unnessesary risk. Just the same it is not acceptable for another person to decide that someone is not in need of medical attention. Case in point, I recently had an anyrism in my right hand. The actual term is Hypothenar Hammer Syndrome. Just prior to my surgery I was out flying almost everyday. To everyone around me I appeared as if there was no issue. Left untreated the artery would have eventually burst and my hand would have become septic. Then there was the remote possibility of there being a clot that could migrate. Bottom line is that if anyone feels they are in need of medical attention THEY ARE, just the same as if someone feels they are at risk by any R/C aircraft common courtesy states we should listen.
IMO the risk of birds and the risk of R/C aircraft are two different things. The birds are just being birds looking for food. The MR/drone is a human being using poor judgement. In my eyes it is never acceptable for one person to put another person at unnessesary risk. Just the same it is not acceptable for another person to decide that someone is not in need of medical attention. Case in point, I recently had an anyrism in my right hand. The actual term is Hypothenar Hammer Syndrome. Just prior to my surgery I was out flying almost everyday. To everyone around me I appeared as if there was no issue. Left untreated the artery would have eventually burst and my hand would have become septic. Then there was the remote possibility of there being a clot that could migrate. Bottom line is that if anyone feels they are in need of medical attention THEY ARE, just the same as if someone feels they are at risk by any R/C aircraft common courtesy states we should listen.
#516
No, but I'll trust regulators, policy makers, and legislators to look at NASA ASRS incidents involving near midairs with "model aircraft" or instances when manned aircraft had to maneuver to avoid collision with a "model aircraft" and then decide for themselves whether they likely involved AMA members.
#518
Situational awareness to inherent risk based on overall safety to manned aircraft.
#519
Just the same it is not acceptable for another person to decide that someone is not in need of medical attention.
#520
The discussion is about making an NTSB report, not when someone should get medical attention.
#521
#523
#524
We were discussing if an NTSB report was required, not if he should go to the hospital. You may have missed a few posts by Franklin who thinks every 2nd degree burn requires a report.