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What If?

Old 06-04-2019, 04:34 AM
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Appowner
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The FAA showed up at the NATS? Not to write anyone up but basically to ask and answer questions and get a feel for how many modelers are at least trying to follow the new rules/ Asking to see FAA numbers on models would be a good question. Checking how high everyone flies would be another.

I think it would be a good time and place for such a visit. Would certainly make maximum exposure. Could make other visits to other venues unnecessary. Just a thought!

And just curious as to the reaction of the AMA community? And in particular, Muncie.
Old 06-04-2019, 10:14 AM
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Dick T.
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Actually a very sound idea. This would allow FAA representatives the opportunity to see how the modeling community handles the rules, how they care for their models and ever present concern for safety. In turn the modelers get to know the FAA is not the bogeyman but people trying to find a safe niche for everyone within the nation's airspace.

Applying for permits is today's way of life for many things, aeromodeling is no different. AMA does play a role in representing us and needs to continue their work. However their penchant for own tooting diminishes confidence when proven incorrect.

I have no problem with FAA showing up at my club's flying site. My aircraft have required numbers on them, are in great condition overall and I mind my flying limits.
Old 06-04-2019, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dick T. View Post
Actually a very sound idea. This would allow FAA representatives the opportunity to see how the modeling community handles the rules, how they care for their models and ever present concern for safety. In turn the modelers get to know the FAA is not the bogeyman but people trying to find a safe niche for everyone within the nation's airspace.

Applying for permits is today's way of life for many things, aeromodeling is no different. AMA does play a role in representing us and needs to continue their work. However their penchant for own tooting diminishes confidence when proven incorrect.

I have no problem with FAA showing up at my club's flying site. My aircraft have required numbers on them, are in great condition overall and I mind my flying limits.
(1) I wonder if AMA has promulgated that given Muncie's location in class G, the NATS will be limited to 400 AGL or less?
(2) What if the FAA does not announce themselves, and does spot checks. Wonder if they'll see things limited to 400 per the law, see planes marked per the law, etc.?
Old 06-04-2019, 05:49 PM
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some of the nats is not being held at muncie.

r/c pattern comes to mind

so just maybe there will not be any r/cbove400 ft there for the to witness...
Old 06-04-2019, 06:26 PM
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IMAC and Soaring Is being held in Muncie. Pattern will be back in Muncie 2020.


Hey Dick, it was great seeing you at the swap meet a few weeks ago. Welcome to the circus.
Shawn.


Old 06-06-2019, 03:10 AM
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I have read that they will be at Jets over Kentucky checking to make sure people are legal with planes over 55 pounds and were there checking last year as well.
Old 06-06-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
(1) I wonder if AMA has promulgated that given Muncie's location in class G, the NATS will be limited to 400 AGL or less?
(2) What if the FAA does not announce themselves, and does spot checks. Wonder if they'll see things limited to 400 per the law, see planes marked per the law, etc.?
Agreed! I think a visit like this, even if they don't cite anyone, could prove a good wake up call on the AMA and all participants. The FAA, knowing their presence will be blasted all over the forums, would reach more people and correct more misconceptions than anything else I can come up with. And if we're treated to some of the flying we've seen in recent years, there should be a lot to talk about. Even with pattern in another location.

Of course that brings up another question concerning the original argument for establishing the Muncie HQ in the first place. But that's for another thread.

And there will no doubt still be those who leave out pertinent details in their posts either through malicious intention or out of simple ignorance.
Old 06-07-2019, 10:31 AM
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I'd be willing to bet that the Nats will go off without any issues, including pattern Nats at Blytheville. I have seen nothing that indicates that the FAA is willing to kill off any forms of competition. Although not all would agree, taking the US out of international competition in Pattern, Soaring and IMAC would be a huge loss. IMO anything that takes any US team off the international stage is a loss for the US.
Old 06-08-2019, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I'd be willing to bet that the Nats will go off without any issues, including pattern Nats at Blytheville. I have seen nothing that indicates that the FAA is willing to kill off any forms of competition. Although not all would agree, taking the US out of international competition in Pattern, Soaring and IMAC would be a huge loss. IMO anything that takes any US team off the international stage is a loss for the US.
There's any number of clubs shut down around the country. I asked the FAA about altitude limits for a couple notable upcoming events, as if I go, I want to make sure that I'm legal.
Old 06-08-2019, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
There's any number of clubs shut down around the country. I asked the FAA about altitude limits for a couple notable upcoming events, as if I go, I want to make sure that I'm legal.

So you misrepresented yourself? We both know you aren't going to participate in any flying events.
Old 06-08-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
So you misrepresented yourself? We both know you aren't going to participate in any flying events.
Thankfully, I don't have to justify my question to you or anyone else. Whether or not I participate is entirely my choice.
Old 06-08-2019, 05:55 AM
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No doubt you feel completely justified in lying to the FAA or any other organization and/or people to get the " angle " you are after LOL. Why not just contact them as a concerned citizen? Why the deceit?
Old 06-08-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
No doubt you feel completely justified in lying to the FAA or any other organization and/or people to get the " angle " you are after LOL. Why not just contact them as a concerned citizen? Why the deceit?
I have every intention of participating ... as of now. Pending the answer to the question of course. I suspect FAA is researching the event locations I provided to cross reference with the type of airspace. Today I sent letters to the government agencies that operate locations for another couple events. I want ot make sure that if I do go, I understand the legal limits of flights from the sites they operate - for example are they permitting flights above 400 feet in class G ... contrary to PL115-254.
Old 06-08-2019, 10:29 AM
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I applaud you considering going to a sanctioned event. I sincerely hope that you find how much fun they are. May I enquire as to which particular event you may attend and what Aircraft you will fly? As a fellow enthusiast, I enjoy hearing about others going to events. One of the reasons why I moderate a Facebook page that deals with pattern airplanes of all eras. We get pattern content world wide.
Old 06-08-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I applaud you considering going to a sanctioned event. I sincerely hope that you find how much fun they are. May I enquire as to which particular event you may attend and what Aircraft you will fly? As a fellow enthusiast, I enjoy hearing about others going to events. One of the reasons why I moderate a Facebook page that deals with pattern airplanes of all eras. We get pattern content world wide.
You may "enquire" (sic), but I prefer to be private with my travel plans. I'll be accompanying a former Safety School colleague on official business. I wouldn't want to compromise his anonymity.
Old 06-08-2019, 11:19 AM
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Just what I thought........more Franklin BS. Tell ya what, next weekend I will be flying a TD contest in Davis Ca. You may as well attempt to snitch that one out while your at it.
Old 06-09-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Just what I thought........more Franklin BS. Tell ya what, next weekend I will be flying a TD contest in Davis Ca. You may as well attempt to snitch that one out while your at it.
Why do you say that's "BS"? I don't publish my travel plans for all to see either. To do so is asking to have your home vandalized, or worse, since anyone that want's to take a few minutes can find out where someone lives, how long they've lived there and, for those that own their homes, how much it's worth. I didn't specify when I was going to be on a cruise last fall, just that I was going to be on one. Does that mean I did something wrong? Far from it. I did everything right when you consider that I came home to a home that was in the same condition that it was in when I left it
Old 06-09-2019, 09:20 PM
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Right, because are so many home invasion thieves are monitoring RCU. You will also notice that Franklin states that he had inquired about events, as in plural events.Does he plan on being in two places at one time? Nope, the truth is that he isn't planning on going to either. So yes, I call BS!

Fact: ever since IMAC and NSRCA started doing online registration I have been using that tool. It lets other competitors know who will be in attendance and gives CDs a head count that is a huge benifit in planning the contest. Not once have I come home to a house that wasn't the way I left it. I'm fairly certain that San Jose and Sacramento have a higher crime rate then State College Pa. Perhaps if Franklin is so concerned about people gaining information about him in forums he should delete his account here and RCG.

Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 06-09-2019 at 09:33 PM.
Old 06-10-2019, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Right, because are so many home invasion thieves are monitoring RCU. You will also notice that Franklin states that he had inquired about events, as in plural events.Does he plan on being in two places at one time? Nope, the truth is that he isn't planning on going to either. So yes, I call BS!
Who says anything about thieves just monitoring one web site? Someone that knows how to use the internet can find any info they want about anyone. The wife's nephew, who lives in Arizona, without knowing anything other than her name, was able to find her address, phone number, social security number, driver's license number and where she worked in less than 15 minutes. Someone with foul play in mind can find even more since they know were to look to get that kind of information WITHOUT monitoring one particular web site.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Fact: ever since IMAC and NSRCA started doing online registration I have been using that tool. It lets other competitors know who will be in attendance and gives CDs a head count that is a huge benifit in planning the contest. Not once have I come home to a house that wasn't the way I left it. I'm fairly certain that San Jose and Sacramento have a higher crime rate then State College Pa. Perhaps if Franklin is so concerned about people gaining information about him in forums he should delete his account here and RCG.
I'd be willing to bet the Puget Sound basin has more crime than SJ or Sac does as well, hence my not posting my travel plans on the internet. I know for a fact that members of my hydroplane racing club, R/C Unlimiteds, have had boats stolen from their garages. The club trailer was also broken into with several items taken, some fairly expensive. I also know of a business owner that had her 8X16 cargo trailer stolen right out of her shop's parking lot fully loaded with merchandise. Her loss was well over $100,000 from the merchandise alone. Another business, in this case a BBQ restaurant, was put out of business when all the meat was stolen out of the smoker during the night, not once but twice. The owner couldn't afford to keep replacing several thousand dollars in pork, chicken and beef. The worst part of this is that all of these thefts happened within 25 miles of my residence. Kind of makes you think twice about posting where you're going and when.
One thing that your last post has me wondering is, if you're so bothered by what Franklin says or does, why haven't YOU deleted YOUR accounts so you won't be tempted to read his posts? You've already said you spend a lot of time flying your large pattern planes and flying in competition, something that has to take a lot of practice to be good at. Seems to me your time would be better spent honing your skills with the twin sticks than bashing your finger tips on the keys of a keyboard to complain about what others are or are not doing

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Old 06-10-2019, 08:27 AM
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For one I wasnt asking about what your event/travel plans are. You could take a drive 200 miles west I wouldn't give a hoot. I compared crime rates of where I have lived most of my life to Franklin's location to make a point. I did not make any reference or comparison to your location, why you felt the need to do so is beyond me, my comments were clearly not about you. They were about Franklin and his blatant lie about attending an upcoming AMA sanctioned event. Why is it that whenever I end up in a debate with Franklin I have to also deal with either you, Appowner and/or Mongo. When I have a debate with Appowner I have to deal with you and/or Mongo. Why the need to double or triple team me? Are none of your cases strong enough that you can't debate with me one on one? Would that not classify as " Mob Mentality " ?


As far as my participation on RCU let me repeat a phrase used by your " Dear Leader " so many times. What I do with my time is my business! I'm not the one here that needs to get out and enjoy the hobby more, my main involvement with the hobby is not aimed at tearing it down like Franklin's or trying to be a big fish in a little pond like his followers.
Old 06-10-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
For one I wasnt asking about what your event/travel plans are. You could take a drive 200 miles west I wouldn't give a hoot. I compared crime rates of where I have lived most of my life to Franklin's location to make a point. I did not make any reference or comparison to your location, why you felt the need to do so is beyond me, my comments were clearly not about you. They were about Franklin and his blatant lie about attending an upcoming AMA sanctioned event. Why is it that whenever I end up in a debate with Franklin I have to also deal with either you, Appowner and/or Mongo. When I have a debate with Appowner I have to deal with you and/or Mongo. Why the need to double or triple team me? Are none of your cases strong enough that you can't debate with me one on one? Would that not classify as " Mob Mentality " ?
I responded for one simple reason:
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT FRANKLIN'S GOING TO DO OR WHY YET YOU CALLED HIM A LIAR!
You also don't have a clue as to what the crime rate is in PA since you don't live there. I just pointed out that THERE IS CRIME EVERYWHERE, My town used to be a small, safe place where you could walk down the street and feel safe. Obviously, with my last post, that is no longer the case.
"A mob mentality"? I don't think so. For me, it comes down to "Support your Shipmate". Unlike you, Franklin and I have something in common. We both are Navy veterans and both were in the Prowler community. I never met Franklin, didn't need to. I DO know the kind of people I worked with, both officer and enlisted. All were hard working, intelligent and, most of all, supported one another. The only thing you've been supporting is an outdated, tax free, self important money pit that people throw money at. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers, just call it as I see it



Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
As far as my participation on RCU let me repeat a phrase used by your " Dear Leader " so many times. What I do with my time is my business! I'm not the one here that needs to get out and enjoy the hobby more, my main involvement with the hobby is not aimed at tearing it down like Franklin's or trying to be a big fish in a little pond like his followers.
You're right, what you do is your business. What Franklin does is his business and you can't get past the fact that he's done nothing but call out the AMA management. Maybe you should be asking the questions he is and see if you get an answer. So far, the AMA leadership has told it's members that they can violate the law because the AMA home office says the law doesn't apply to members. If I was told that, I'd be asking why, not defending those very leaders that are obviously out of touch with the reality of today and not buried in the glory of last century.
Old 06-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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You mean like when you ASSumed what the atmosphere was at a California flying feild based on just a couple snapshots? LOL you are so full of it. Most guys that read the crap that is posted here in the AMA forums can plainly see you guys make stuff up as you go. If you actually beleive that Franklin fully intended to attend a sanctioned event I would suggest an appointment with a Neurologist.

Notice that its been a few days days now that he announced his inquiry with the FAA about a COUPLE of events and what the altitude limit would be. He hasn't reported his findings yet has he? He was so critical of the AMA not giving him a response according to HIS timeframe right? What about the FAA? Where is the criticism of them not answering in the same time frame? Or maybe they did respond and their answer did not fit his agenda? Do you plan to answer for him on this too? My comments yesterday were clearly directed at Franklin, how about you take a seat and wait until I address you? Oh that's right SHIPMATES. While I support all servicemen and like I have stated my workmanship on several defense programs could very well have contributed to yours and your shipmates safety however I have never served. Apparently you feel that it makes me somehow a lower class of citizen. Isn't that one of the very things that Franklin cries about should AMA members get exemptions to fly over 400'? As much as I appreciate yours and anyone else's contributions to our freedom, it really has zero bearing on our discussions here. In fact, IMO yours and some other's behavior here on RCU is well below the standard that I would expect for an ex serviceman.
Old 06-10-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
You mean like when you ASSumed what the atmosphere was at a California flying feild based on just a couple snapshots? LOL you are so full of it. Most guys that read the crap that is posted here in the AMA forums can plainly see you guys make stuff up as you go. If you actually beleive that Franklin fully intended to attend a sanctioned event I would suggest an appointment with a Neurologist.

Notice that its been a few days days now that he announced his inquiry with the FAA about a COUPLE of events and what the altitude limit would be. He hasn't reported his findings yet has he? He was so critical of the AMA not giving him a response according to HIS timeframe right? What about the FAA? Where is the criticism of them not answering in the same time frame? Or maybe they did respond and their answer did not fit his agenda? Do you plan to answer for him on this too? My comments yesterday were clearly directed at Franklin, how about you take a seat and wait until I address you? Oh that's right SHIPMATES. While I support all servicemen and like I have stated my workmanship on several defense programs could very well have contributed to yours and your shipmates safety however I have never served. Apparently you feel that it makes me somehow a lower class of citizen. Isn't that one of the very things that Franklin cries about should AMA members get exemptions to fly over 400'? As much as I appreciate yours and anyone else's contributions to our freedom, it really has zero bearing on our discussions here. In fact, IMO yours and some other's behavior here on RCU is well below the standard that I would expect for an ex serviceman.
Okay, let's address your comments one at a time:
  • Franklin did say he was going out of town, didn't he? When I'm out of town, I don't always have internet access and it's possible he doesn't either
  • The AMA is a overstaffed private entity. By not answering within a few days says they are looking for a way to cover their butts. If I don't answer a question put forth in a timely manner, I won't have a job and, as I see it, neither should the AMA staff
  • The FAA is a government agency that oversees the safety of millions of passengers every day. Unlike the AMA I give them a pass, up to a point. After that, I start moving up the FAA's chain of command
  • I have the right of freedom of speech, that is unless you know of some way to change the Bill Of Rights, therefore, I can answer any post put out on any forum I have a membership in
  • I never said anyone was lower class because they didn't server this country but, apparently you seem to think it was implied. Very well, so be it. What I said was I'll defend ANYONE that has served, regardless of branch of service. Franklin and I are both former Navy and worked in the same community in the Navy. That may mean nothing to you but it does to those of us that did serve. As far as your "opinion" of conduct of "EX servicemen", I don't care since, as the Marines like to say, there is no such thing as an "EX Marine", The same holds true to all branches of the military. There are many "former servicemen" but there are no EX servicemen"
And, with that, I'll leave this thread too. I'll let you wave your AMA Leader member flag(that means nothing to the general population, just so you know) for all to see. Just remember, times are changing and those that can't let go of the past will be forever locked into that past, just like the AMA
Old 06-10-2019, 11:27 AM
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Points 1,2 and 3 are pure speculation on your part. AMA are currently preparing for thousands of competitors coming to Muncie.

Yes you do have freedom of speech however you and I both agreed to a certain level of conduct when we became RCU members. One of the points you agreed to at that time was not to participate in group attacks. What you, Appowner, Mongo and Franklin have done would certainly classify as a participation in group attacks. Honestly you and I both today are guilty of violating terms of use.

I will offer an apology of using the term Ex serviceman, I agree that it is an inaccurate term. My father never stopped being " Master Sargent " and I am certain that after his boot camp graduation later this month my son will always be a US Marine.

You must have forgotten the several times I have stated that I am not a leader member! I'm simply defending my hobby against someone who appears to be intent on tearing it down. I however would not be so critical of Franklin or his followers if they all stayed on the side of honesty. It is clear that Franklin has begun to stoop to what I call a politicians ethical standard in presenting his so called facts. It's a shame that guys such as you will not think for yourselves and simply follow him because of the " Shipmates code".




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Old 06-10-2019, 11:28 AM
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Double post.





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