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The EAA Get's It, why not the AMA?

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The EAA Get's It, why not the AMA?

Old 01-19-2020, 04:23 PM
  #51  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
"The record clearly demonstrates that the speed, size and weight of the model airplanes and jets have increased over the past five decades to characteristics where safety needs to be the primary concern."

- MEMORANDUM OPINION BY HONORABLE JULIA K. HEARTHWAY, Judge

The reliability has also increased.
Old 01-19-2020, 06:17 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
The reliability has also increased.
As has complexity. And we know that complex systems fail in complex ways. Regardless, who do I believe? A Superior Court Judge (writing for a panel of three by the way), or Speedy?
Old 01-19-2020, 06:24 PM
  #53  
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You'r absolutely right Franklin. You should beleive a Superior Court judge whom has never flown an R/C model over somone with 43 years experience. I mean that is what you were trained to do right, blindly follow authority.
Old 01-20-2020, 04:43 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
You'r absolutely right Franklin. You should beleive a Superior Court judge whom has never flown an R/C model over somone with 43 years experience. I mean that is what you were trained to do right, blindly follow authority.
Wait. You're right. By your measure just about the entire court system is worthless, up to and including the Supreme Court. For how can they decide cases on water use when none of them are large landowners? Or how can they decide commerce issues when none of them own businesses? Or how can they decide firearms issues when they don't own one let alone have 43 years experience? Or how can they decide cases of patent infringement when none of them are engineers?

What you miss is that any any case, there's piles of briefs filed. And the judges read them all. Those briefs include friend of the court briefs that seek to educate and inform the decision. And because I understand this process, what I do trust far more than your 43 years of experience - is the judgement of a court.

And the most interesting aspects of the disaster that was the Fairview Flyers reaching the courts? (1) AMA felt so strongly about keeping the field they did nothing to help them. And (2), because it did hit the courts all the Judge's comments are in the opinion are available to other attorneys when they shepardize their own cases. In other words, is available to others to cite as they fight undisciplined operations at FRIAs.

Last edited by franklin_m; 01-20-2020 at 06:27 AM.
Old 01-20-2020, 06:18 AM
  #55  
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There is something else to think about, Speed. Your experience is with aircraft you have built or owned at specific locations. If you've never been to the location that was involved in Franklin's court case or, for that matter, flown with the people that fly there, your 43 years of experience means nothing since you're not speaking from experience about the people or place that was involved.
Old 01-20-2020, 06:57 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
If you've never been to the location that was involved in Franklin's court case or, for that matter, flown with the people that fly there, your 43 years of experience means nothing since you're not speaking from experience about the people or place that was involved.
And the same goes for Franklin. He has no business generalizing about AMA clubs based limited experience with a few bad actors.
Old 01-20-2020, 10:41 AM
  #57  
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Unfortunately, there's enough video footage on the internet that shows people not following "the code" or just plane being unsafe and stupid to justify the judge's position and rulings.
Old 01-20-2020, 03:15 PM
  #58  
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Hydro, you are correct that I have no experience with the Pa. club that Franklin keeps bringing up. Then again other then what he was able to find on the internet, neither does he. However I have never disputed his claims of what transpired at that club. I fully agree that if you look for bad players in just about anything you will find them. Recall the video I found of that guy running a boat into himself?

I do however maintain that having experience with 30+ club sites over a 43 year time span does give me more insight as to what " typically " happens at club sites at any given day. I would say a much more accurate perspective then a disgruntled person with a bias against the AMA ( and anyone who happens to fly models past a certain size) who spends most of his free time looking for issues that don't exist.
Old 01-20-2020, 07:50 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Unfortunately, there's enough video footage on the internet that shows people not following "the code" or just plane being unsafe and stupid to justify the judge's position and rulings.
But considering that bad news sells newspapers you are unlikely to see the many thousands of times each weekend that people safely fly their models in full compliance of the AMA rules.
Old 01-20-2020, 09:50 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
But considering that bad news sells newspapers you are unlikely to see the many thousands of times each weekend that people safely fly their models in full compliance of the AMA rules.
Unfortunately, that's all too true
Old 01-21-2020, 07:57 AM
  #61  
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:12 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
But considering that bad news sells newspapers you are unlikely to see the many thousands of times each weekend that people safely fly their models in full compliance of the AMA rules.
I'm very curious... as "Team Futaba Product Support," per year:
How many crashes behind the safety line are "acceptable?"
How many near misses with spectators are "acceptable?"
How many overflights of roads (and vehicle driving on them) are "acceptable?"
How many non-permissive overflights of property (in sense of FAR 107.19c) are "acceptable?"
How many crashes into crowds are "acceptable?"
How many injured non-participants are "acceptable?"
How many deaths are "acceptable?"
How many near misses with manned aircraft are "acceptable?"
How many impacts with manned aircraft are "acceptable?"

Last edited by franklin_m; 01-21-2020 at 08:14 AM.
Old 01-21-2020, 08:33 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I'm very curious... as "Team Futaba Product Support," per year:
How many crashes behind the safety line are "acceptable?"
How many near misses with spectators are "acceptable?"
How many overflights of roads (and vehicle driving on them) are "acceptable?"
How many non-permissive overflights of property (in sense of FAR 107.19c) are "acceptable?"
How many crashes into crowds are "acceptable?"
How many injured non-participants are "acceptable?"
How many deaths are "acceptable?"
How many near misses with manned aircraft are "acceptable?"
How many impacts with manned aircraft are "acceptable?"
Huh?? I know you are baiting me, but I honestly do not get where you are going. By the way, I am not a Futaba employee. I am an unpaid Team Member who answers questions on a volunteer basis to help people get the full enjoyment from Futaba products.
Old 01-21-2020, 10:03 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
By the way, I am not a Futaba employee. I am an unpaid Team Member who answers questions on a volunteer basis to help people get the full enjoyment from Futaba products.
You signature line says nothing about being a volunteer, and if you don't want people to think you are in any way representing Futaba-RC, it might be worth re-thinking use of that in your signature line on opinion centric forums like this one.

Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
Huh?? I know you are baiting me, but I honestly do not get where you are going.
Where I'm going is that you're willing to opine about safe operations and ignore the unsafe ones. That demonstrates some level of acceptance of the unsafe acts. All I'm asking you to do is share with us what is "acceptable," in that where you personally start worrying less about the safe operations and when you start talking about needing to stop the unsafe ones.

So, again as Futaba-RC Team Futaba Product Support, what are your acceptable levels in response to the questions above?
Old 01-21-2020, 12:47 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Hydro, you are correct that I have no experience with the Pa. club that Franklin keeps bringing up. Then again other then what he was able to find on the internet, neither does he. However I have never disputed his claims of what transpired at that club. I fully agree that if you look for bad players in just about anything you will find them. Recall the video I found of that guy running a boat into himself?

I do however maintain that having experience with 30+ club sites over a 43 year time span does give me more insight as to what " typically " happens at club sites at any given day. I would say a much more accurate perspective then a disgruntled person with a bias against the AMA ( and anyone who happens to fly models past a certain size) who spends most of his free time looking for issues that don't exist.
+ plus 1


Old 01-21-2020, 01:40 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by mach5nchimchim View Post
+ plus 1
Wow! Welcome to RC Universe. I see you're in Happy Valley Oregon, the very same place as SpeedRacerTrixie. I see you've got a total of three posts, all in the AMA forums, what a coincidence, as your neighbor spends a lot of time there as well!
Old 01-21-2020, 02:00 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Wow! Welcome to RC Universe. I see you're in Happy Valley Oregon, the very same place as SpeedRacerTrixie. I see you've got a total of three posts, all in the AMA forums, what a coincidence, as your neighbor spends a lot of time there as well!
Who's this guy?
Old 01-21-2020, 02:02 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
You signature line says nothing about being a volunteer, and if you don't want people to think you are in any way representing Futaba-RC, it might be worth re-thinking use of that in your signature line on opinion centric forums like this one.
It is made clear in the forum I moderate.



Where I'm going is that you're willing to opine about safe operations and ignore the unsafe ones.
So, your assumption is that by pointing out that there are a majority of safe operations which never get mentioned that I am ignoring any unsafe operations?
The simple fact is that you rarely hear about good news. On the evening news we hear about the few tragic accidents that happen every day on the roads, but we never hear a story about the literally millions of people who drove in any given day without being involved in an accident. Trying to read anything more into such a statement is silly.
Old 01-21-2020, 02:13 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
So, your assumption is that by pointing out that there are a majority of safe operations which never get mentioned that I am ignoring any unsafe operations?

The simple fact is that you rarely hear about good news. On the evening news we hear about the few tragic accidents that happen every day on the roads, but we never hear a story about the literally millions of people who drove in any given day without being involved in an accident. Trying to read anything more into such a statement is silly.
I'll take that as a willingness to accept some level of mishap from recreational sUAS, without the strength of conviction to go on record saying how many are too many.
Old 01-21-2020, 03:38 PM
  #70  
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I would suggest that for Futaba policy information that you go directly to Futaba. Bill's function with Futaba is to help with technical and setup aspects.

https://futabausa.com/?gclid=CjwKCAi...hoCcyoQAvD_BwE
Old 01-21-2020, 04:07 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I would suggest that for Futaba policy information that you go directly to Futaba. Bill's function with Futaba is to help with technical and setup aspects.

https://futabausa.com/?gclid=CjwKCAi...hoCcyoQAvD_BwE
Nothing in his profile says that he does not speak for Futaba-RC.
Old 01-21-2020, 05:08 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Nothing in his profile says that he does not speak for Futaba-RC.
Interesting. You are not listed as one of the last 10 to view my profile, which only has my signature in it, so you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. But I have clearly stated I do not speak for Futaba on anything other than assisting people with their Futaba products. Not sure what else you want.
Old 01-21-2020, 05:37 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Nothing in his profile says that he does not speak for Futaba-RC.


Nothing says it does. Your comment is about as obtuse as can be, with that reasoning I guess CNN must come to you for official US Navy statements.
Old 01-21-2020, 08:07 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Nothing in his profile says that he does not speak for Futaba-RC.
And of course, if one were feeling malicious: One might observe that nothing in Franklin's profile says he's not being paid to advocate certain positions.

Old 01-22-2020, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
And of course, if one were feeling malicious: One might observe that nothing in Franklin's profile says he's not being paid to advocate certain positions.
Because ... wait for it ... wait for it ... I'm not paid to advocate. But if it makes you feel better to continue to beat that drum, go right ahead.

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