Ending mini-lawyering ... is it past time for AMA to require members follow the law?
06-01-2020, 05:06 PM
#226
So, just one more thing where AMA failed to meet your expectations. We get it. You, and several others, feel strongly that AMA failed on many fronts. But I am at a loss to understand how long and why you all are going to keep beating this dead horse? I'm not getting what you think will come of it.
06-01-2020, 05:55 PM
#227
And you're right, it is a dead horse. The problem is that there are still people that blindly defend the AMA as "doing everything they could", which amounted to nothing of any substance. Had the powers that be actually worked with the FAA and made a clear statement that drones were a problem, not traditional aircraft pilots, distanced the AMA from drones and actually enforced the laws and vaunted "Safety Code", most of this thread would not be here. The sad part is it all points back to Muncie and Rich Hanson
06-01-2020, 06:08 PM
#228
Senior Member
So, just one more thing where AMA failed to meet your expectations. We get it. You, and several others, feel strongly that AMA failed on many fronts. But I am at a loss to understand how long and why you all are going to keep beating this dead horse? I'm not getting what you think will come of it.
06-01-2020, 07:24 PM
#229
So, just one more thing where AMA failed to meet your expectations. We get it. You, and several others, feel strongly that AMA failed on many fronts. But I am at a loss to understand how long and why you all are going to keep beating this dead horse? I'm not getting what you think will come of it.
Astro
06-01-2020, 09:08 PM
#230
Nothing will change as long as folks keep thinking that the AMA has their back. That is the whole reason I am here, "beating the dead horse". Instead of AMA members DEFENDING the AMA, they need to let them know that they are disappointed and disagree with their actions. I am surprised you haven't been able to figure that out yet...
Astro
Astro
06-01-2020, 09:23 PM
#231
butt,
when some where close to 90% of the voting able membership, does not bother to vote in the pres of the org election, something is wrong with that org.
when that many abstain, those who do vote become the "protectors" of the non voters interest. good or bad, right or wrong. sad sorry state of affairs.
Last edited by mongo; 06-01-2020 at 09:26 PM.
06-01-2020, 09:32 PM
#232
got no idea on who might be protecting who,
butt,
when some where close to 90% of the voting able membership, does not bother to vote in the pres of the org election, something is wrong with that org.
when that many abstain, those who do vote become the "protectors" of the non voters interest. good or bad, right or wrong. sad sorry state of affairs.
butt,
when some where close to 90% of the voting able membership, does not bother to vote in the pres of the org election, something is wrong with that org.
when that many abstain, those who do vote become the "protectors" of the non voters interest. good or bad, right or wrong. sad sorry state of affairs.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 06-01-2020 at 09:35 PM.
06-01-2020, 10:16 PM
#233
Senior Member
06-02-2020, 02:35 AM
#234
Okay, but let's look at this another way. Did that 90% not vote because they really didn't care or because they couldn't decide which was the better of two poor choices? I don't know who the other choice was but I do know the winner of an unfairly run election wasn't a good choice. Now, before anyone jumps on me, just remember, Rich Hanson belittled his opponent in the AMA's magazine and didn't give his opponent the chance to defend himself in that same magazine. To me, that's clearly unfair
based entirely on my remembrances of the past 10-15 elections for pres, i will say, nobody cares. and the same can be said for almost all the dvp elections as well.
06-02-2020, 03:16 AM
#235
Exactly . At the risk of sounding like a skipping record , I'll say it again ;
If only about 10% of AMA members vote in AMA elections , I'd say that means for about 90% of the membership , the AMA is nothing more than an insurance policy so they can fly at the local club field .
06-02-2020, 04:57 AM
#237
Exactly .At the risk of sounding like a skipping record , I'll say it again ;
If only about 10% of AMA members vote in AMA elections , I'd say that means for about 90% of the membership , the AMA is nothing more than an insurance policy so they can fly at the local club field .
When I was just a noob in this hobby, I kept my mouth shut and listened and watched and learned from those who were willing to share their skills and experiences with me. Early on, I was told how important the AMA membership was, not only for the insurance, but because they had fought to protect our RF frequencies and that they advocated for modelers in many different arenas. I've always trusted the AMA to have the best interest of their members as their primary concern and never questioned it until the drone issue started. I realized that as an AMA member for decades, I had never bothered to vote in elections, nor was the AMA discussed at my club meetings. So, after decades of being an AMA member and being very active in my local club(s), holding various offices, hosting fly-ins, editing the club newsletter, becoming a proficient builder and flyer, I realized that I had only really viewed the AMA as an "insurance policy". That is when I realized that I was invested in this hobby to the tune of many years and countless tens of thousands of dollars, and that collectively, the AMA was in trouble.
As I have become more involved in these forums, it has become clear that there are pretty much two types of AMA members; the 10% or so who actively engage in and run the AMA, and the 90% who pay their dues for the insurance. It is no different than AMA clubs at a local level; 10% do all the work, the other 90% just want to fly. This model lends itself perfectly to the, "Good Ole Boy Club" syndrome that runs rampant in just about EVERY club I have been involved with, as well as at the AMA HQ.
I have found those that cast dispersion on my posts do so because they are very much a part of the Good Ole Boy Club, and desperately try to avoid the curtain from being torn down and being exposed as the man behind the curtain.
Argue all you want, but the facts don't lie. And I refuse to stop searching for, and believing in the truth, no matter how many names I am called!
Astro
06-02-2020, 05:25 AM
#238
BINGO!
When I was just a noob in this hobby, I kept my mouth shut and listened and watched and learned from those who were willing to share their skills and experiences with me. Early on, I was told how important the AMA membership was, not only for the insurance, but because they had fought to protect our RF frequencies and that they advocated for modelers in many different arenas. I've always trusted the AMA to have the best interest of their members as their primary concern and never questioned it until the drone issue started. I realized that as an AMA member for decades, I had never bothered to vote in elections, nor was the AMA discussed at my club meetings. So, after decades of being an AMA member and being very active in my local club(s), holding various offices, hosting fly-ins, editing the club newsletter, becoming a proficient builder and flyer, I realized that I had only really viewed the AMA as an "insurance policy". That is when I realized that I was invested in this hobby to the tune of many years and countless tens of thousands of dollars, and that collectively, the AMA was in trouble.
As I have become more involved in these forums, it has become clear that there are pretty much two types of AMA members; the 10% or so who actively engage in and run the AMA, and the 90% who pay their dues for the insurance. It is no different than AMA clubs at a local level; 10% do all the work, the other 90% just want to fly. This model lends itself perfectly to the, "Good Ole Boy Club" syndrome that runs rampant in just about EVERY club I have been involved with, as well as at the AMA HQ.
I have found those that cast dispersion on my posts do so because they are very much a part of the Good Ole Boy Club, and desperately try to avoid the curtain from being torn down and being exposed as the man behind the curtain.
Argue all you want, but the facts don't lie. And I refuse to stop searching for, and believing in the truth, no matter how many names I am called!
Astro
When I was just a noob in this hobby, I kept my mouth shut and listened and watched and learned from those who were willing to share their skills and experiences with me. Early on, I was told how important the AMA membership was, not only for the insurance, but because they had fought to protect our RF frequencies and that they advocated for modelers in many different arenas. I've always trusted the AMA to have the best interest of their members as their primary concern and never questioned it until the drone issue started. I realized that as an AMA member for decades, I had never bothered to vote in elections, nor was the AMA discussed at my club meetings. So, after decades of being an AMA member and being very active in my local club(s), holding various offices, hosting fly-ins, editing the club newsletter, becoming a proficient builder and flyer, I realized that I had only really viewed the AMA as an "insurance policy". That is when I realized that I was invested in this hobby to the tune of many years and countless tens of thousands of dollars, and that collectively, the AMA was in trouble.
As I have become more involved in these forums, it has become clear that there are pretty much two types of AMA members; the 10% or so who actively engage in and run the AMA, and the 90% who pay their dues for the insurance. It is no different than AMA clubs at a local level; 10% do all the work, the other 90% just want to fly. This model lends itself perfectly to the, "Good Ole Boy Club" syndrome that runs rampant in just about EVERY club I have been involved with, as well as at the AMA HQ.
I have found those that cast dispersion on my posts do so because they are very much a part of the Good Ole Boy Club, and desperately try to avoid the curtain from being torn down and being exposed as the man behind the curtain.
Argue all you want, but the facts don't lie. And I refuse to stop searching for, and believing in the truth, no matter how many names I am called!
Astro
06-02-2020, 05:47 AM
#239
Exactly .At the risk of sounding like a skipping record , I'll say it again ;
If only about 10% of AMA members vote in AMA elections , I'd say that means for about 90% of the membership , the AMA is nothing more than an insurance policy so they can fly at the local club field .
06-02-2020, 06:15 AM
#240
BINGO!
When I was just a noob in this hobby, I kept my mouth shut and listened and watched and learned from those who were willing to share their skills and experiences with me. Early on, I was told how important the AMA membership was, not only for the insurance, but because they had fought to protect our RF frequencies and that they advocated for modelers in many different arenas. I've always trusted the AMA to have the best interest of their members as their primary concern and never questioned it until the drone issue started. I realized that as an AMA member for decades, I had never bothered to vote in elections, nor was the AMA discussed at my club meetings. So, after decades of being an AMA member and being very active in my local club(s), holding various offices, hosting fly-ins, editing the club newsletter, becoming a proficient builder and flyer, I realized that I had only really viewed the AMA as an "insurance policy". That is when I realized that I was invested in this hobby to the tune of many years and countless tens of thousands of dollars, and that collectively, the AMA was in trouble.
As I have become more involved in these forums, it has become clear that there are pretty much two types of AMA members; the 10% or so who actively engage in and run the AMA, and the 90% who pay their dues for the insurance. It is no different than AMA clubs at a local level; 10% do all the work, the other 90% just want to fly. This model lends itself perfectly to the, "Good Ole Boy Club" syndrome that runs rampant in just about EVERY club I have been involved with, as well as at the AMA HQ.
I have found those that cast dispersion on my posts do so because they are very much a part of the Good Ole Boy Club, and desperately try to avoid the curtain from being torn down and being exposed as the man behind the curtain.
Argue all you want, but the facts don't lie. And I refuse to stop searching for, and believing in the truth, no matter how many names I am called!
Astro
When I was just a noob in this hobby, I kept my mouth shut and listened and watched and learned from those who were willing to share their skills and experiences with me. Early on, I was told how important the AMA membership was, not only for the insurance, but because they had fought to protect our RF frequencies and that they advocated for modelers in many different arenas. I've always trusted the AMA to have the best interest of their members as their primary concern and never questioned it until the drone issue started. I realized that as an AMA member for decades, I had never bothered to vote in elections, nor was the AMA discussed at my club meetings. So, after decades of being an AMA member and being very active in my local club(s), holding various offices, hosting fly-ins, editing the club newsletter, becoming a proficient builder and flyer, I realized that I had only really viewed the AMA as an "insurance policy". That is when I realized that I was invested in this hobby to the tune of many years and countless tens of thousands of dollars, and that collectively, the AMA was in trouble.
As I have become more involved in these forums, it has become clear that there are pretty much two types of AMA members; the 10% or so who actively engage in and run the AMA, and the 90% who pay their dues for the insurance. It is no different than AMA clubs at a local level; 10% do all the work, the other 90% just want to fly. This model lends itself perfectly to the, "Good Ole Boy Club" syndrome that runs rampant in just about EVERY club I have been involved with, as well as at the AMA HQ.
I have found those that cast dispersion on my posts do so because they are very much a part of the Good Ole Boy Club, and desperately try to avoid the curtain from being torn down and being exposed as the man behind the curtain.
Argue all you want, but the facts don't lie. And I refuse to stop searching for, and believing in the truth, no matter how many names I am called!
Astro
06-02-2020, 08:04 AM
#241
Senior Member
Exactly .At the risk of sounding like a skipping record , I'll say it again ;
If only about 10% of AMA members vote in AMA elections , I'd say that means for about 90% of the membership , the AMA is nothing more than an insurance policy so they can fly at the local club field .
anything else. And it shouldn't matter who runs the place. It's a non-profit. There is an understanding that
someone doesn't come in and destroy the organization and the hobby along with it.
AMA is a closed shop. There's no point in getting involved in elections at HQ. When Hanson was re-elected
last November there was nothing to differentiate the other two other candidates. Even if one of the other two
had been elected it would be business as usual with Hanson still making the major decisions.
Supporting traditional model aviation at AMA only brings disparaging comments and mockery, as Lawrence
Tougas found out in the 2017/18 election. And not just from AMA. Here's an article from sUAS News mocking
Tougas with a song on YouTube, "Just Say NO" (to drugs).
https://www.suasnews.com/2016/08/law...t-just-say-no/
06-02-2020, 08:15 AM
#242
I'm not optimistic there is much they can do. The vast majority of members belong for 2 primary reasons:
1) access to a flying site that requires AMA membership
2) desire to participate in competition
and there is overlap in those two groups.
Unfortunately I think they have decided to take an approach of supporting regulatory actions that will force membership. This is clear in their interpretation of 336 and also appears to be a hope hung on the FRIA concept in the RID NPRM. This is not a positive approach in my mind. I honestly don't know what they can do at this point. The apathy of members is also nothing new. Election participation has always been very low. If people cannot be engaged enough to return a postage paid postcard I feel there is little hope to reach them.
Hopefully other CBOs will be recognized by the FAA as required by Section 349. That competition may shake them up. If it does, great. If not, well they had a good run.
06-02-2020, 08:51 AM
#243
I'm not particularly fond of the AMA myself. But I'm not clear on what the constant complaining does.
06-02-2020, 09:20 AM
#244
Senior Member
Didn't twist anything. I was not referring to "all" AMA critics. I was focused in on the small group of dead horse beaters that dominate this particular thread, and others in this forum.
I'm not particularly fond of the AMA myself. But I'm not clear on what the constant complaining does.
I'm not particularly fond of the AMA myself. But I'm not clear on what the constant complaining does.
You've got about a half dozen posts in a row with nothing but disparaging remarks.
Maybe try contributing an article or some new insight. Something at least.
06-06-2020, 06:18 PM
#248
R_Strowe
