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"illegal" hovering

Old 10-19-2002, 03:32 AM
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3dbatixkid
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Default "illegal" hovering

I have heard rumors about AMA restricting 3D flying to away from the runway. But why??? The only people that do this are people that are top grade pilots. AND there are a very few amount of members in each club that even fly 3D. The other thing that pisses me off is the lack of attention AMA gives to the west coast. We get nothing out here!! Anyway, I had to complain. The hovering thing really pisses me off!! Lemme know what everyone thinks.
Old 10-19-2002, 03:54 AM
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Flyfalcons
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Default "illegal" hovering

Have you read anything supporting this rumor? To me it's not worth getting worked up about something that may or may not be true.
Old 10-19-2002, 05:53 AM
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J_R
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Default "illegal" hovering

The following excert is from the 2003 Safety Code, on the AMA web site.

8) With the exception of events flown under AMA Competition rules, after launch, except for pilots or helpers being used, no powered model may be flown closer than 25 feet to any person.
9) Under no circumstances may a pilot or other person touch a powered model in flight.
Old 10-19-2002, 02:22 PM
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Gordon Mc
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Default Re: "illegal" hovering

Originally posted by 3dbatixkid
I have heard rumors about AMA restricting 3D flying to away from the runway. But why??? The only people that do this are people that are top grade pilots
This is a very common, yet IMO wrong, way of looking at the issue. Don't look at this as a slap to the ego of 3d pilots, look at it as a way of trying to ensure the safety of others nearby regardless of the skills of the 3d pilot.

What makes you think that "top grade" people are immune from interference, mechanical failures, or even the occasional dumb-thumb ? If a 3d pilot is flying his aircraft 5 ft away from me and he gets a radio hit such that this admittedly awesome pilot is in fact no longer piloting the aircraft... how does the pilot's skill level protect my soft pink body from this aircraft that is no longer listening to his commands ? If the same scenario happens with the aircraft now 25 ft from me - well, I still wouldn't want to be there, but at least the increased separation gives me a little better chance of surviving.

Requiring a minimum separation between the aircraft and people for safety reasons seems perfectly reaonable and logical. The pilot is still allowed to keep the aircraft as close to himself or his "helpers" as he wishes as long as he keeps it 25 ft away from anyone else. Doesn't seem like much of a restriction to me. Go out and fly it as close to yourself as you want, when you are the only active pilot within a 25ft radius.

Gordon
Old 10-19-2002, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Re: "illegal" hovering

Originally posted by Gordon Mc

Don't look at this as a slap to the ego of 3d pilots, look at it as a way of trying to ensure the safety of others nearby regardless of the skills of the 3d pilot.
Very well said... it's all about safety and assuring that someone doesn't get hurt.
Old 10-19-2002, 04:16 PM
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Default Yes, very well said indeed

A couple of weeks ago we were with Mike Caglia at the field when he was practicing his freestyle for the TOC.

He was hovering in front of us when suddenly the plane hopped the fence and was coming straight at our heads.
It was obvious that Mike never intended this maneuver in fact he was noticeably shaken.
When he brought the plane back into the pits he found that when his elevator Gimbel's were in the full up elevator position and some force (minimal) was applied, that the signal actually reversed and went to full down elevator with the Gimbel still in the full up elevator position.
I consider myself lucky that it was such an experienced pilot on the stick. If it were me, I would have probably panicked and who knows what could have happened.

The scenario speaks for itself.
Plane $10K Radio $1K
Pilot skill level $ Priceless

It can happen to anyone. No matter how good you are or the equipment you use
Old 10-19-2002, 04:19 PM
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J_R
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Default "illegal" hovering

Most of us tend to think of hovering in terms of the TOC style. Take a look at this well performed hover. It may make you think twice. Remember, the EC has to deal with this too, and at least some of them have seen it.

http://www.jcrc.com/images/ZIMages/P...14-02%2011.AVI

This .AVI file takes a while to load, but, for most of you, it will give you something new to think about.

JR
Old 10-19-2002, 04:25 PM
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J_R
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Default "illegal" hovering

Now try this one

http://www.jcrc.com/images/ZIMages/P...-14-02%209.AVI

Thoughts?
Old 10-19-2002, 05:53 PM
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Default "illegal" hovering

Put it this way, if you were the one in charge of insuring RC flying events would YOU want to see this style of flying with 40% monsters in close proximity to crowds of spectators? Can someone say liability nightmare? And who's to say that these pilots are all 'top-notch'? I have seen some flying from less than fantastic pilots that borders on recklessness. The farther away from me the better.
Old 10-19-2002, 06:42 PM
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Joe B.
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Default "illegal" hovering

I enjoy watching 3D flying and with my new Sig CAP hopefully I'll learn to do some of those manuvers soon. However, I think the runway is for takeoffs and landings. If you want to hover, do it somewhere else. I don't care if it's 20' past the runway, just not over it since chances are there ARE other people that want to use it as well.
Old 10-21-2002, 05:32 PM
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stevezero
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Default "illegal" hovering

Points 8 and 9 in JR's email make perfect sense. First, why would anyone want to put themselves that close to a pair (or three) whirring blades, much less another pilot who is tryin to pay attention and maintain his own aircraft. And why would someone want to reach out and "touch" "catch" or "fondle" an aircraft in high AOA/ high risk maneuvers. Yes, it looks cool when you get away with it, and YES, its going to be a gigantic mess to clean up when something goes wrong.

As for the comment about only top rated pilots flying in that manner, I dont think that argument has any merit. 3d flying is definately a showstopper, and I am sure it has attracted more than a few new pilots. What's to keep a newbie whos got a few weeks of soloing under his belt from trying to copy one of the "top rated pilots"? Everyone has a learning curve, and I am sure youre very good pilot 3dbatixkid, but everyone crashes, and poop happens that we have absolutely no control over (Mike Caglia's incident shows that). People by nature try to emulate and copy things they think are cool, its just that some go about it in a little more cautious and safe manner than others.


Key things to remember here, tolerance and common sense. If we are unable to excercise common sense, and monitor/police ourselves, then it will be done for us. Then we will all gripe and moan about the changes. If youve seen someone get caught by a prop on a .40 size engine (1.2 hp, 10x6 prop), imagine what damage a DA150 (16 hp, 32/10 prop) would do. That combo is larger than most lawnmower engine/blade packages. I for one do not want to be on the receiving end of either the prop, or the bloodsplatter from the prop hittin someone else.

Steve
Old 10-21-2002, 06:25 PM
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Default "illegal" hovering

Originally posted by J_R
Now try this one

http://www.jcrc.com/images/ZIMages/P...-14-02%209.AVI

Thoughts?
Yeah I thik it is all fun and games until someone gets an eye put out. Notice this guy actually uses his right hand to catch and release this model, now my question would be, which mode of transmitter is he using?????
Old 10-22-2002, 04:01 AM
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arjunchopra
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Default "illegal" hovering

JR ,

The video is not opening, it is requesting for a codec .

It's downloaded but cannot play . Let me know the remedy .

Cheers
Old 10-22-2002, 04:15 AM
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J_R
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Default "illegal" hovering

I'm not sure what the problem is. If you are using Windows, try downloading Microsoft's MediaPlayer or Real Player. The package should include the codec's. You may have an older version or no version of one of those.

JR
Old 10-22-2002, 05:40 AM
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arjunchopra
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Default "illegal" hovering

JR ,

I am using Windows Media Plyer with Office XP .

Still giving me the error mesage of codec .

Is it compatible with with Real Player .

Cheers.
Old 10-22-2002, 06:01 AM
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J_R
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Default "illegal" hovering

arjunchopra

It's not my site, so I really have no idea. Let me try to describe what it depicts, it may save you the headache of trying to view it.

A guy is hovering a Pizza Box flyer. He hover's up to himself, and grabs it. He then turns 180 degrees and flings it out. If you are not familiar with the PBF, there are seveal threads on them, with pictures, on RCU under the funfly forum.

Anyone else? is that an accurate description?


arjunchopra, I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Maybe someone else on here can give you a hint or two.

JR
Old 10-22-2002, 11:36 AM
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traskos
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Default Hover

3DBAT,
Try to think a little past the end of your nose. If you want to do 3D at arms length do it if you are the only one at the field. All the pilots skills cannot correct an electrical or mechanical problem. I should think that you could see that the ruling is to protect people from danger.
Old 10-22-2002, 02:33 PM
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Default "illegal" hovering

While this statement may not be popular, I think that anyone flying at a field should automatically wave the right to sue the club or property owner if injured. If someone wants to fly 3D at arms length and loose that arm then it is their choice.

I hear that the family of the guy in Colorado who killed himself with his own plane is suing. TO me that is crazy!
Old 10-22-2002, 03:42 PM
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Default "illegal" hovering

You're right, the guy should not sue for his own faults - his mistake, his (and his families) loss. However if someone cuts MY arm off because they want to show off, then you can bet that I'll beat them upside the head with my bloody stump. No one has the right to choose for me. It's neat to watch and one day I might try it, but when I do I'll be the one deciding. When someones on the flight line they're looking at their model, not some schlep with a 40% whatever trying to hover 5' in front of him.

- Joe
Old 10-23-2002, 12:42 AM
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Default "illegal" hovering

All i have to say is when are people going to take responsibility for them selves..... If your hit w/ the plane in the first place why was you standing that close......Why did you get in your vehicle and drive to the event.....i'm sure there's a great possibility of getting killed getting to the flying Field......come-on folks...AMA as screwed enough up......
Old 10-23-2002, 05:04 AM
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Default "illegal" hovering

weatherly

Always remember this about the AMA Safety Code: read it is if it said 'EXCLUSIONS TO YOUR AMA INSURANCE' because that is exactly what it is. If you violate the new distance and touching rules, you have no insurance. If your club allows them to be violated, the club has no insurance.

JR
Old 10-23-2002, 11:48 AM
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Default responsibility

Weatherly
As long as juries allow the large awards they do, for not being responsible for your own actions, it will never happen.
Old 10-24-2002, 11:42 PM
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Default "illegal" hovering

What really gets me is the people that hover over the runway while others are flying the pattern. 20 feet/25 feet/30 feet---I don't care if it is 100 feet....If others are flying a normal pattern, hovering over the runway should be made illegal. I've called "Landing!" to no avail. It is just plain RUDE, not to mention unsafe, to do this over the runway when normal flight ops is going on. Rules have been imposed but the 3D flyers start out over the edge of the runway only to creep closer. Several models have crashed in the pits. A few have had to duck to keep from getting hit in the head. WHEN WILL THE AMA PUT AN END TO THIS BEHAVIOR!!!! WHEN SOMEONE GETS KILLED?!?!?!?! In one club in Memphis there is a great divide between the 3D'ers and the folks that just want to fly a normal pattern. I won't join until this issue is settled. I wish that the 3D'ers that fly in this manner would get a clue.....

Kevin
Old 10-24-2002, 11:56 PM
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Default "illegal" hovering

It is not up to the AMA IMO, it is up to the guys at the local level, as you can make all the rules in the world at a national level, but they must be enforced locally.
Old 10-25-2002, 01:23 AM
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Default "illegal" hovering

I also hate when I yell "Coming in" and just then two guys taxi out to the runway for takeoff. Last week I just about had it and expressed my opinion. Being short tempered, things like that push me past the point of enjoyable flying to the RC equivilant of road rage. It's just plain rude and a blatent sign of disrespect.

However, if you've got the field to yourself with no-one else on the flightline or in the air then by all means have some fun. That's what it's all about. Just don't hover 10-feet in front of me while I'm trying to pay attention to my model 500-feet away. I can't pay enough attention to your model to feel safe while I'm trying to fly.

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