Silent-AV8R

So I understand, you feel that the AMA should work directly with local governments to secure flying sites? Is that correct.

As far as buying flying sites, around here (SOCAL) it is more or less out of the question due to potetnial loss from urban encroachment and land values. Open land can go from $50,000 to $1,000,000 per acre (like right around where we lost the El Toro field). Even at the low end most clubs would be hard pressed to buy enough land and ensure a buffer zone to keep the neighbors happy. Not excuses, just reality.

KidEpoxy

Phraedrus-
well, there is always BLM at 58&395
that aint going anywhere

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

.How is the AMA going to work with municpalities to acquire urban flying sites. Ok, let's say they do ... great. Now whose going to fly there? Is the AMA also going to be responsbile for advertising in each town for fliers to come use the field? What's the use of the AMA acquiring a field for nobody to use?

The only people that can acquire the field are the people that are going to use the field, these are the people who should take the work into their own hands with the TOOLS the AMA provides for them.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

There are a number of ways, one could be to help fund the purchase of land. Another could be to help educate the public about model aviation so when the bond referendum is on the ballot for funding of land for a field, it may get public support.

If it is owned by the municipality, then anyone the municipality says can. If AMA retains some ownership rights, then maybe only AMA members.

Sounds like a good way to promote the hobby!!!!

That's real positive thinking there, I guess we know what happened to the field in central park.

I must have missed that rule. I used to use Buder Park in St. Louis...come to think of it, you may have also, as I recall that land was donated, or did you work hard to aquire that field for the city?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I don't think you understand how it works to acquire urban flying sites. Nobody gives up land until you have bodies or people that want to use it. In most cases those bodies need to be members of the community, since they paid the taxes for the property in the first place. You think AMA can just start calling parks dept's around the USA and letting them know they want to open flying sites, no way. The reason they give soccer fields and baseball land is that it fills up very quickly with local bodies. But no park is going to designate a flying site unless you fill it with dedicated members and that's a pretty important piece of the procurement process. Designate a flying site that won't get used and it will only make it worst, because you'll have drifters flying instead of clubs and it will just fall apart, due to the fact there was no effort to by anyone local to help support the field or initially set it up.

Kind of like buying an ARF. Who cares if it crashes, you didn't build it, you just put it together. But if it was a scratch built, you want it to last forever. Get the point, it takes WORK, by the people that want to use it, not the people that charter it.

These members/fliers can EASILY do the legwork with the information that the AMA provides for them. So if the AMA is going to spend all this time acquiring the field, how do they get the people to fly there? You have to be the person/people that WANT to fly there first, then work with the AMA to get the site going. The AMA will help you. In fact Carl Maroney, told me when I met with him at Oshkosh ,to call Dave Mathewson for assistance with the Central Park field. I decided not to use them, unless we needed them and so far we don't, the documents they put together for procurement are working just fine.

And as far as Central Park field goes and while we are talking about that project is 2/3 of the way complete. I did want to publicly thank a certain person, you know who you are (uptown attorney and rc flyer) who helped speed things up with choosing the right flying site there as it wasn't easy as space is very limited in there. But after our last meeting with NYC Parks on last Friday, this site was chosen to co-locate with a couple baseball fields in the North Meadow just north of the Reservoir, around 97th street.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

You should try thinking again.


Thanks for the preaching though.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It is true, you can't expect that if the AMA does all the leg work to get a flying field established that there will automatically be a dedicated core group of people to take the handoff and maintain it. Kind of like handing an able bodied person a welfare check or doing your kids' homework for them.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

You know what I want from the AMA? Nope, not insurance. I want them to live up to the mission. Right now the membership is ~180,000, right? A tiny bit of math tells us that the income from dues is $10,440,000.00. That might be optimistic, so let's drop it to a lower membership number. I'll just pull 160,000 out of thin air because I don't have the time (or inclination) to go look for the real number right now. That number should be far lower than the real membership count. That makes the income $9,280,000.00. Can we average it out for arguements sake? Say, an even ten mil? Now, how is that money being spent to further the hobby? That's what the AMA is all about, right? Helping obtain fields is a good expenditure. How much do they spend on that? Educational programs are good. What's the yearly average on that? Before you guys start telling me do download stuff from the AMA, let me just go ahead and tell you that I'm not interested in hearing it. That doesn't give you a good picture of what's really going on. I want to see detail accounts of what their are doing and how the money is spent in the official AMA organ. After all, that is what the magazine is for.... right?

Silent-AV8R

There is a nifty item called a "Financial Statement". It shows how an organization spends the money it takes an. You can look at the last few years here:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/membersonly/Default.aspx

You have to be a member to log on.

Rat1

Well the figures for how many members and the income from member dues will be off. This is because some members that are younger then 18 get their membership for 1 dollar. Not sure what the ratio is between the non adult members and the adult members is.

A portion of the membership dues goes toward paying for the non adult member dues.

Another portion (about 18 dollars) of the membership dues goes toward a magazine that some do not care about and wish they did not have to pay for.

the rest of it goes toward paying the insurance and other things that may not be needed according to a larger amount of paying members.

As it stands, it looks much like an imperfect system from the opinions of some members and some RCers that could be members.

To me it would take making everything else other then the insurance and a small sum for a bi yearly newsletter optional. I might be willing to except a small amount for other things but only a couple dollars. If you have 160,000 members and they opted out of the mag and only opted to dontate 2 dollars for other things then you would still have 320,000.00 to pay for other things.

Remove the price of MA from the members dues and give them an option to purchase4 a subsription to the mag.

Reduce the age for junior members to a maximum or 15.

Make it an option for new members to donate a few bucks to support the junior members and the scholarship funding etc rather then force them to pay.

Forget the muncie site all together, shut it down and put the money to better use for the AMA members. Think about this one for a bit. How many actual members are going to go spend the money to travel etc to visit the site anyway. With the price of gas etc these days, most people are nto going to take up their vacation time to visit the site when the rest of their family would much rather go to Disney or something like that.


Another thing is that the AMA should make it a point that non of the clubs it supports etc should discriminate against the electric parkflyer crowd, ARF crowd or the RTF crowd. The AMA should let it be known that all of the AMA chartered clubs etc should welcome these crowds with open arms or risk loosing their charter or AMA support.

I am sure I will get flamed for that last one but I have personally seen thumb their noses to these crowds and it does nothing but make the AMA look bad and force these people to the local parks and school yards.

It is time to loose the mind set that these groups do not count and the clubs should welcome these people with open arms.

Hossfly

The guy you members selected in the last EVP election is right there in the magazine handing you what the auditors hand him. So read Holland's article each month. Don't look for any inputs from him. It ain't there. Now that is why you elected him, RIGHT!

You "elitists" certainly never wanted anyone that would give you all that info on an almost daily presentation on a web site, along with a perspective of what AMA officers and Staff was saying and doing. You never wanted anyone that would be sending information to all agencies from the White-House to your local city village councils so they would be aware of how good clubs can be and therefore deserve prime assistance in locating a flying facility. You never wanted one that would be informing the major media, all about our superior educational, recreational, competitive sport of model airplane flying along with the wonderful creative hobby during the long winter days up north, and how families can spend time building a model, and doing all those scientific chores, like charging LiPOs, together.

There is so much that can be done, but it certainly seems not only does everyone not want to do it, but they don't like anyone that WILL do it. [:@]

Then there are those fine folks like combatpig who doesn't want AMA to grow. Hey CP, I seem to recall that you are still involved in CL combat. Did you know that your big CL Combat Ace Mike Wilcox is getting married next month? Hey his CL activities just may be put on hold for a while. However he was still winning in RC Combat a week and a half ago.

So pt. read what good ol' Doug copies for you. Now if you are really sharp, there is a world of information BETWEEN THE LINES in those reports. I don't think Doug is aware of that little fact. [>:] have you ever noticed that a slick fellow will fill you full of facts, yet the real facts are never said. What is not said is sometimes much more important than what IS said. [:-]

KidEpoxy

Between the lines?
Like the moneys MA Makes, Spends, & Takes from members.... nowhere near working out?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

First off $18 goes towards the magazine, but then almost half of that money comes back from advertising. $18 goes out ... but how much comes back in??

I find it quite amazing how much you guys come down on me for not being a member, this year, when you guys do NOTHING but complain about how much the AMA takes from you, does nothing for you and how much you can't stand it. Seems to me that being a member only entitles you to complain about how much money they steal from you and won't come to your house and do your dishes for you. The only people killing the AMA are the ones on the inside. Oh there are members that are helping too ... but you other guys are just ... amazing so to speak.

KidEpoxy

yup, would be nice, but we just get the financials with big holes
Just what % of the 160k members are actually getting the $18 took for MA?

Get the Lifers out of that number cause they paid up back in '72, and were does the +$60 add up for alien members? I keep saying we should allow folks to opt out, but it seems we already can, if we are under 19 there is the No-Mag $1 membership.... which is not kicking in $18 for MA. But the rest of the Youths are.... mut they are not- its the $1 Youth w/MA for just $14 more to make $15 a year for them.

Take $18 x (160000-Lifers -Youth -Alien)
+$60 x (alien-Canucks)
+$24 x Canucks
+$14 x (Youth -NoMA $1Youth)
------------------------
??????????????????

See, simple accounting.
Or we can just use the Subscription number given to us in MA in the Financial breakdown.... which is a clearly not it.

MA Advertizing $992k
MA Subscription $62k
MA Direct Cost $2186k
-----------------------
Loss $1.13mil

Are 63000 memebers paying $18 to make up thet loss?
Are 160k members paying $7.05? (cause we know the $1 Youths aint!)
Are 47000 canadians footing the whole bill for the rest of us at $24 a head?

MA told me in print in the mag that they took $18 of my $58, anybody have print otherwise?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

OK ... loss 1.13 mil for the mag. Divide it by lets say 170 members. You have $6.64 per member is what the AMA actually spends on the MA magazine. Not bad seeing that they give them a copy of the subscription to every single member at no additional cost above the membership.

So you say they take $18, they don't. That's what their COST is, but not what the net profit/loss is.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

No...On second thought, I guess that would be a stupid idea. We should rely on individuals to do it...what the hell was I thinking?


Got a point there! So let’s just forget the whole idea. We should just ignore the problem like SOCAL has until land acquisition is insurmountable everywhere else.


Phaedrus-MMVI you and the other like minded make it exceedingly clear that all the pie in the sky enthusiasm is unrealistic. I will forget my previously held notions and relegate my thoughts to the apparent reality that our hobby is experiencing the spike before the end. Of course, Wal-Mart will cater to the whims of those wanting the activity.

I will just enjoy the remainder as best as I can, just like the rest of the apathetic, self-serving, immediately gratified, talk about the future demise because of to much risk or danger and do nothing but complain about those that are not like me.

scottrc

AMA Vision (Updated 7/06)

We, the members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics, are the pathway to the future of modeling and are committed to making modeling the foremost sport/hobby in the world.
This vision is accomplished through:

* Affiliation with its valued associates, the modeling industry and governments;
* A process of continuous improvement;
* A commitment to leadership, quality, education and scientific/technical development; and,
* A safe, secure, enjoyable modeling environment.



AMA Mission (Updated 7/06)

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a world-class association of modelers organized for the purpose of promotion, development, education, advancement and safeguard modeling activities.

The Academy provides leadership, organization, competition, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education, and scientific/technical development to modelers.

I have read the minutes to all the meetings over the past year, yet I have not seen anyhting that really supports the Vision or Mission statement. All I read is about how money is being spent for obtaining a new CEO, setting up events at Muncie, planning meetings and events in Canada or Califonia, spending money for the Show Team, spending money for "improving" MA, spending money on the EC for EC operating expenses. And discussions on the operation of the Muncie facility.

Nowehere do I see plans for nationwide marketing and exposure other than dumping mass marketing junk on the current members, programs about who and what in the AMA is doing in Washington about lobbying, Mr Brown goes to Washington to have lunch with a Senator is not lobbying, improving safety, education, or in fact, leadership.

I really, really feel the AMA is a executive club full of elitists using my membership money to further their personal endowments of the hobby. In judging by the decline in membership, I am not alone. Other then the secondary insurance that I still think is good coverage, there is NOTHING that this organization offers to me, nor allows me to offer back.

2005 was the first year in 20 I did not renew because I was so upset with this organization. An organization who cannot keep track of someones paperwork because their office was in such disarray. An organization who I couldn't contact with problems with paperwork yet had no problem bombarding me with marketing crap. Their administrative issues did improve this last 6 months, but are these short term band-aids like they implemented after the great Muncie move, or are they really going to get better at taking care of the average member? We never seem to know. But hey, at least our show team will have reservations at the Holiday Inn.

End of rant

Scott

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Didn't I address this in my post that you replied to? Since you are apparently blind, I'll tell you that yes, I did. Why in the world can't you understand what I'm saying? Sure you can. It occurs to me that you might be trolling.

The "mission" of the AMA has been thrown out in favor of committees. It might be a non-profit, but it sure pays DB and his buds pretty well.

Stickbuilder

How to make the AMA perfect... Hmmm that's an easy one. Just convince everyone who flys model airplanes to just pay up, join up and speak up. That way everyone is pulling in the same direction, and success is guarenteed. It'll never happen though. Too many folks who won't join, but still reserve the right to miss and poan about it. If you ain't got a dog in the fight, shut the Hell up about it. Anything that you say about the AMA will not affect you in any manner, because you don't belong to the organization, and don't have a voice in the operation thereof. It is really that simple. Join up, or shut up.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Who the heck are you kidding. The only people that piss and moan about the AMA in this forum are the members.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

It is apparent that you do not read your posts but you do not read other's posts as well.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Ok.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

You do complain…don’t you? Heck, if you don’t like AMA do us a favor and just resign.

KidEpoxy

whoah... hey now...
Lets not get into quoting STL

Like I said, it does me no good to Block him it you guys run around quoting him left & right.

LCS: It is apparent that you do not read your posts but you do not read other's posts as well.
Hey, lets make that
I dont read his posts, and others shouldnt as well.

Stickbuilder

Ahem.....Littlecrankshaft...You can't resign from an organization to which you don't belong. Dion is not a member of the AMA.

Dion, You do your share of missing and poaning about the AMA in this forum, and by your own admission, you are not a member. I recently had the rare priviledge of renewing my membership again. I'm not saying exactly how many times I've done that, but it is for more years than you have been alive. I'm honored to be able to make that statement. The AMA has given me back, far more than I have given it. It's done the same thing for most of us as well. You should be ashamed of your ranting and raving.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1