Civil Discourse
02-22-2007, 11:53 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
ORIGINAL: John Casey
The club did not prevail....
The findings were as follows
The club owes me no money.....
The board was found to have acted in bad faith.....
The club owes me no money.
I AM STILL AN INACTIVE MEMBER OF THE CLUB UNTIL DECIDED OTHERWISE BY A COURT.
They sent an email to my current club complaining about the stuff on RCU,
..they had a good laugh..I had a good laugh.
As far as letting it go.....
.David............... LOCK THE THREAD>>DO NOT REMOVE IT FROM VIEW>
The club did not prevail....
The findings were as follows
The club owes me no money.....
The board was found to have acted in bad faith.....
The club owes me no money.
I AM STILL AN INACTIVE MEMBER OF THE CLUB UNTIL DECIDED OTHERWISE BY A COURT.
They sent an email to my current club complaining about the stuff on RCU,
..they had a good laugh..I had a good laugh.
As far as letting it go.....
.David............... LOCK THE THREAD>>DO NOT REMOVE IT FROM VIEW>
Johns Crazy
02-23-2007, 08:29 AM
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RE: Civil Discourse
As I have said, this is the one thing that makes your argument seem made up.
"yes even though I'm not going to answer all your half truths (I really don't have the time or energy to)"
I guess thats the part that stumps me. You obviously have no problem spending "energy" replying to what you feel like. However, when you refuse to answer the stuff that has been specifically brought up, it makes you and the club look like you have something to hide.
If you don't know the answers, then say that, if you do and they make the club look bad, well then unfortunately you and the club are on shaky ground.
Understand something, as I have said before, I Am no fan of this John person, he seems frankly pretty arrogant to me and regardless of what he writes, his ultimate aim seems to be that he wants to give the SAMS club a black eye, which is sad and pathetic I guess, unless you deserve it.
Take my advice Mr. Crazy, answering the posts with half an answer makes the club look worse than if you just let the thread run it's course.
"yes even though I'm not going to answer all your half truths (I really don't have the time or energy to)"
I guess thats the part that stumps me. You obviously have no problem spending "energy" replying to what you feel like. However, when you refuse to answer the stuff that has been specifically brought up, it makes you and the club look like you have something to hide.
If you don't know the answers, then say that, if you do and they make the club look bad, well then unfortunately you and the club are on shaky ground.
Understand something, as I have said before, I Am no fan of this John person, he seems frankly pretty arrogant to me and regardless of what he writes, his ultimate aim seems to be that he wants to give the SAMS club a black eye, which is sad and pathetic I guess, unless you deserve it.
Take my advice Mr. Crazy, answering the posts with half an answer makes the club look worse than if you just let the thread run it's course.
02-23-2007, 08:46 AM
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RE: Civil Discourse
[quote]ORIGINAL: BUTCHIEBOY
The membership has spoken - even if by silence.
I have been watching all of these threads with fascination and wondering when someone would come up with the real proof that this club does not want this individual back. BOOM, Teachu2 hits it finally right on the head with the above quote!!! Pretty obvious to me no matter what happened, the membership of this club wants nothing to do with John and his perpetual whining. Nice to see Teachu2 narrow the argument down to its most basic factor. Good job Teachu2
I have been watching all of these threads with fascination and wondering when someone would come up with the real proof that this club does not want this individual back. BOOM, Teachu2 hits it finally right on the head with the above quote!!! Pretty obvious to me no matter what happened, the membership of this club wants nothing to do with John and his perpetual whining. Nice to see Teachu2 narrow the argument down to its most basic factor. Good job Teachu2
Butchieboy, You would be suprised when a board weilding this kind of power and starts throwing out people who oppose it, the chilling effect it has on the remainder of the membership. There are no doubt many people who run from confrontation of this type and by there non-participation, allow these situations to get worse. As has been stated also, many members have left. No doubt these were the people who had some grit to them. Dictators rule by brute power and the pacification of the majority.
02-23-2007, 10:21 AM
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RE: Civil Discourse
ORIGINAL: JUGFLIER
Lets see what your buddy john's crazy has admitted to.
1. John Casey was expelled by a vote of the board without membership notification or approval.
2. Two other members, one a founding member were also expelled in same fashion.
3. Prior to this, SAMs has never expelled members.
4. These expulsions were not taken by vote or notice of the club prior.
5.He admitted to the vote by the club membership to extend the runway.
6. He stated the board decided it wasn't worth persuing.
7. He stated that the obstacle to the extension was an environmental study that the board decided it didnt want to spend the money on.
8.He affirmed that the application was never forwarded to the government entity for approval.
Other points made by John Casey not refuted.
1. The board purchased insurance for themselves, against a vote of the club.
2. A member of the board resigned after being caught having shot down another persons aircraft intentionally.
3. SAMs field was shut down by AMA on account of this act.
4. That member was not expelled by the board.
5. Three times the board tried to raise dues, three times defeated by the membership.
6. His car was keyed at the field.
7. He was threatened by club members.
8. The club newsletter was pulled from the website after it was brought to our attention by John C.
9. ect.
Lets see what your buddy john's crazy has admitted to.
1. John Casey was expelled by a vote of the board without membership notification or approval.
2. Two other members, one a founding member were also expelled in same fashion.
3. Prior to this, SAMs has never expelled members.
4. These expulsions were not taken by vote or notice of the club prior.
5.He admitted to the vote by the club membership to extend the runway.
6. He stated the board decided it wasn't worth persuing.
7. He stated that the obstacle to the extension was an environmental study that the board decided it didnt want to spend the money on.
8.He affirmed that the application was never forwarded to the government entity for approval.
Other points made by John Casey not refuted.
1. The board purchased insurance for themselves, against a vote of the club.
2. A member of the board resigned after being caught having shot down another persons aircraft intentionally.
3. SAMs field was shut down by AMA on account of this act.
4. That member was not expelled by the board.
5. Three times the board tried to raise dues, three times defeated by the membership.
6. His car was keyed at the field.
7. He was threatened by club members.
8. The club newsletter was pulled from the website after it was brought to our attention by John C.
9. ect.
I think it is time Mr. Crazy gives his name and becomes accountable for his crap slinging.
Mr. Crazy has Zero credibility thus far.
02-23-2007, 11:39 AM
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RE: Civil Discourse
I think it is time Mr. Crazy gives his name and becomes accountable for his crap slinging.
02-23-2007, 11:42 AM
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RE: Civil Discourse
I will add that Mr. Crazy has not lost any credibility as far as I am concerned. I do not have a dog in that race. It wasz pointed out that John's point is not being made either and it would help if he pointed out exactly WHY he continues to beat this horse.
Tommy
Tommy
02-23-2007, 02:18 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
I'll answer the questions of the group.........provide dates , documentation,.
I guess somebody is going to have to come up
with something that would be a terminationable offense.
Like shooting down aircraft , keying cars...
OOOPPPS!!!...........
Another board member just resigned.................. see the website Feb newsletter.
Sorry David, when the board members are constantly resigning .............thier is a problem.
And its not John Casey.
As far as voting....they kept the vote to remove the board from happening,
THEY WERE SCARED THEY WOULD LOSE.
I guess somebody is going to have to come up
with something that would be a terminationable offense.
Like shooting down aircraft , keying cars...
OOOPPPS!!!...........
Another board member just resigned.................. see the website Feb newsletter.
Sorry David, when the board members are constantly resigning .............thier is a problem.
And its not John Casey.
As far as voting....they kept the vote to remove the board from happening,
THEY WERE SCARED THEY WOULD LOSE.
02-23-2007, 04:16 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
ORIGINAL: John Casey
Sorry David, when the board members are constantly resigning .............thier is a problem.
Sorry David, when the board members are constantly resigning .............thier is a problem.
02-23-2007, 04:51 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
ORIGINAL: Jimmy Skids
Liberator,
You make some very good points. You are right, I don't have every answer, I just have answers for what I was witness to. What I do know is that John Casey disrupted meetings, sued the club, lost, and continues to gripe about it on the internet. Unfortunately it was a bad time for the club.
Since John Casey has stated that he would respond to statements/questions here are some:
John Casey states that the membership voted down raising join up fees three times. He leaves out that there were only two votes not three.
John Casey never mentions how he contacted our land lord with out club authorization!
John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on.
John Casey states that the club removed previous newsletters off the internet............. well there still are a lot up there, only the oldest were removed to free up internet space (he makes it out to be some huge cover up).
John Casey neglects to mention that he posted numerous negative posts on the clubs visitor bulletin board.......... now each post has to have webmaster approval.
John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car.
John Casey says there were planes shot down, yet after an INDEPENDANT INVESTIGATION, no proof!
John Casey states that there are safety infractions (pylons) yet never responds to dropping a bomb in the pits or walking away from a running airplane (turning his back) to get something in the pits.
John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong.
John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have?
Doc Yates,
Thank you, My whole reason for creating my profile is to answer attacks against SAM's. Have I done a good job of pointing out that there are two sides to the problem? Probably not based upon some of the other posters taking issue with my posts. But I would ask..... What good does John Casey hope to accomplish? If he wants back in to SAM's he would have to have a 2/3rds vote of the entire membership to get back in. The current membership would never do that (this is just my opinion).
Johns Crazy
Liberator,
You make some very good points. You are right, I don't have every answer, I just have answers for what I was witness to. What I do know is that John Casey disrupted meetings, sued the club, lost, and continues to gripe about it on the internet. Unfortunately it was a bad time for the club.
Since John Casey has stated that he would respond to statements/questions here are some:
John Casey states that the membership voted down raising join up fees three times. He leaves out that there were only two votes not three.
John Casey never mentions how he contacted our land lord with out club authorization!
John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on.
John Casey states that the club removed previous newsletters off the internet............. well there still are a lot up there, only the oldest were removed to free up internet space (he makes it out to be some huge cover up).
John Casey neglects to mention that he posted numerous negative posts on the clubs visitor bulletin board.......... now each post has to have webmaster approval.
John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car.
John Casey says there were planes shot down, yet after an INDEPENDANT INVESTIGATION, no proof!
John Casey states that there are safety infractions (pylons) yet never responds to dropping a bomb in the pits or walking away from a running airplane (turning his back) to get something in the pits.
John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong.
John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have?
Doc Yates,
Thank you, My whole reason for creating my profile is to answer attacks against SAM's. Have I done a good job of pointing out that there are two sides to the problem? Probably not based upon some of the other posters taking issue with my posts. But I would ask..... What good does John Casey hope to accomplish? If he wants back in to SAM's he would have to have a 2/3rds vote of the entire membership to get back in. The current membership would never do that (this is just my opinion).
Johns Crazy
02-23-2007, 04:52 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
Liberator,
You make some very good points. You are right, I don't have every answer, I just have answers for what I was witness to. What I do know is that John Casey disrupted meetings, sued the club, lost, and continues to gripe about it on the internet. Unfortunately it was a bad time for the club.
Since John Casey has stated that he would respond to statements/questions here are some:
John Casey states that the membership voted down raising join up fees three times. He leaves out that there were only two votes not three.
John Casey never mentions how he contacted our land lord with out club authorization!
John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on.
John Casey states that the club removed previous newsletters off the internet............. well there still are a lot up there, only the oldest were removed to free up internet space (he makes it out to be some huge cover up).
John Casey neglects to mention that he posted numerous negative posts on the clubs visitor bulletin board.......... now each post has to have webmaster approval.
John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car.
John Casey says there were planes shot down, yet after an INDEPENDANT INVESTIGATION, no proof!
John Casey states that there are safety infractions (pylons) yet never responds to dropping a bomb in the pits or walking away from a running airplane (turning his back) to get something in the pits.
John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong.
John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have?
Doc Yates,
Thank you, My whole reason for creating my profile is to answer attacks against SAM's. Have I done a good job of pointing out that there are two sides to the problem? Probably not based upon some of the other posters taking issue with my posts. But I would ask..... What good does John Casey hope to accomplish? If he wants back in to SAM's he would have to have a 2/3rds vote of the entire membership to get back in. The current membership would never do that (this is just my opinion).
Johns Crazy
You make some very good points. You are right, I don't have every answer, I just have answers for what I was witness to. What I do know is that John Casey disrupted meetings, sued the club, lost, and continues to gripe about it on the internet. Unfortunately it was a bad time for the club.
Since John Casey has stated that he would respond to statements/questions here are some:
John Casey states that the membership voted down raising join up fees three times. He leaves out that there were only two votes not three.
John Casey never mentions how he contacted our land lord with out club authorization!
John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on.
John Casey states that the club removed previous newsletters off the internet............. well there still are a lot up there, only the oldest were removed to free up internet space (he makes it out to be some huge cover up).
John Casey neglects to mention that he posted numerous negative posts on the clubs visitor bulletin board.......... now each post has to have webmaster approval.
John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car.
John Casey says there were planes shot down, yet after an INDEPENDANT INVESTIGATION, no proof!
John Casey states that there are safety infractions (pylons) yet never responds to dropping a bomb in the pits or walking away from a running airplane (turning his back) to get something in the pits.
John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong.
John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have?
Doc Yates,
Thank you, My whole reason for creating my profile is to answer attacks against SAM's. Have I done a good job of pointing out that there are two sides to the problem? Probably not based upon some of the other posters taking issue with my posts. But I would ask..... What good does John Casey hope to accomplish? If he wants back in to SAM's he would have to have a 2/3rds vote of the entire membership to get back in. The current membership would never do that (this is just my opinion).
Johns Crazy
02-23-2007, 05:00 PM
#68
RE: Civil Discourse
I am going to go back to my original thought process and say that after reading some of the responses John, did do an end around the board and the membership.
John Casey never mentions how he contacted our land lord with out club authorization!
Now if he would only tell us what he hopes to accomplish by continuing his attack on SAM. Dave
John Casey never mentions how he contacted our land lord with out club authorization!
Now if he would only tell us what he hopes to accomplish by continuing his attack on SAM. Dave
02-23-2007, 05:06 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
Jim, glad to meet you. I was just over browsing SAMs site. Looks like a fun club - even tho they don't race ALL the time!
April 22 β Big Kahuna Warbird Race β Jerry Votaw/John Bigwood
May 5 β Open House β CD Jim Lichtenberg
May 20 β Presidentβs Cup Warbird Race β Steve Brown
June 2 β Pattern Contest β Mike Miller
June 24 β Two Minute Tango β Dale & Amy Kral
July 15 β Fun Fly & Club Barbecue β Board of Directors
Sept 9 β Trash Man Classic Warbird Race β JR Schiager
Oct 6-7 β Bud Garric Pattern Classic β Frank Capone
Oct 21 β October Fast Warbird Race β All Club CDβs β High Point Trophy Winners Announced
Might have to see if I can make it up there May 5th......
April 22 β Big Kahuna Warbird Race β Jerry Votaw/John Bigwood
May 5 β Open House β CD Jim Lichtenberg
May 20 β Presidentβs Cup Warbird Race β Steve Brown
June 2 β Pattern Contest β Mike Miller
June 24 β Two Minute Tango β Dale & Amy Kral
July 15 β Fun Fly & Club Barbecue β Board of Directors
Sept 9 β Trash Man Classic Warbird Race β JR Schiager
Oct 6-7 β Bud Garric Pattern Classic β Frank Capone
Oct 21 β October Fast Warbird Race β All Club CDβs β High Point Trophy Winners Announced
Might have to see if I can make it up there May 5th......
02-23-2007, 05:10 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
Stop the insanity.
John's Crazy/Jimmy Skids/Jim Smith/Whotheheck ever,
The truth shall set you free.
You know via PM that I was involved in a club that tore itself to pieces and I wish the best for the situation at hand. The only way for this to subside, however, is to take ownership of your statements and LISTEN to the other side. Rumors and generalities just add fuel to the flames.
No, this will not be resolved on the internet.
Yes, you are contributing to the mess by making yourself look like the back end of a donkey by not owning up to your statements.
If you are afraid of reprisals or are unable to take the heat, you shouldn't have spoken in the first place.
Greg S
(you can verify MY name - AMA 871838)
John's Crazy/Jimmy Skids/Jim Smith/Whotheheck ever,
The truth shall set you free.
You know via PM that I was involved in a club that tore itself to pieces and I wish the best for the situation at hand. The only way for this to subside, however, is to take ownership of your statements and LISTEN to the other side. Rumors and generalities just add fuel to the flames.
No, this will not be resolved on the internet.
Yes, you are contributing to the mess by making yourself look like the back end of a donkey by not owning up to your statements.
If you are afraid of reprisals or are unable to take the heat, you shouldn't have spoken in the first place.
Greg S
(you can verify MY name - AMA 871838)
02-23-2007, 05:18 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
ORIGINAL: KingCrash
Thanks for listening. I truly do hope things can get resolved and you can get back to what's important - Having fun FLYING
Greg S
Thanks for listening. I truly do hope things can get resolved and you can get back to what's important - Having fun FLYING
Greg S
02-23-2007, 05:20 PM
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RE: Civil Discourse
"John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on." Quote Jimmy Skids
1. Question. This happen before or after his expulsion? If after his expulsion, were his cohorts the other expellees?
"John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car." Quote JS.
2. This is disturbing if true.
"John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong." Quote JS.
3. Question. Did a boardmember resign under any cloud of suspicion in regards to the plane shooting incident?
"John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have? " Quote JS.
4. This has no place in your post.
1. Question. This happen before or after his expulsion? If after his expulsion, were his cohorts the other expellees?
"John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car." Quote JS.
2. This is disturbing if true.
"John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong." Quote JS.
3. Question. Did a boardmember resign under any cloud of suspicion in regards to the plane shooting incident?
"John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have? " Quote JS.
4. This has no place in your post.
02-23-2007, 05:35 PM
#75
RE: Civil Discourse
ORIGINAL: JUGFLIER
"John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on." Quote Jimmy Skids
1. Question. This happen before or after his expulsion? If after his expulsion, were his cohorts the other expellees?
I'm not sure as it was a long time ago, but I would guess after.
"John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car." Quote JS.
2. This is disturbing if true.
"John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong." Quote JS.
3. Question. Did a boardmember resign under any cloud of suspicion in regards to the plane shooting incident?
The accused was never a board member. A board member who didn't like how it was handled did resign. I don't have any other details.
"John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have? " Quote JS.
4. This has no place in your post.
I know, I was just pointing out that there were more lies. Sorry.
Jim Smith
"John Casey never mentions that he and others contacted our land lord and tried to take over the clubs lease, a club that had 20+ years with the land lord. He doesn't mention that he and his pals tried to form another club to do this. SAM's has an incredible runway and site that he wants his hands on." Quote Jimmy Skids
1. Question. This happen before or after his expulsion? If after his expulsion, were his cohorts the other expellees?
I'm not sure as it was a long time ago, but I would guess after.
"John Casey speaks about people having their cars keyed, yet leaves out that he kicked someones car." Quote JS.
2. This is disturbing if true.
"John Casey states that because officers resign that there is something wrong. Never mind if they have other interests or obligations that tax their time. If he is correct then there are a ton of clubs where there is something wrong." Quote JS.
3. Question. Did a boardmember resign under any cloud of suspicion in regards to the plane shooting incident?
The accused was never a board member. A board member who didn't like how it was handled did resign. I don't have any other details.
"John Casey states that he is one of the all time best warbird racers, scale builders, and overall joes around. Well John answer this: What class did you dominate in............. Bronze (beginner), Silver (intermediate), or Gold (advanced)....... and how many first place finishes did you have? " Quote JS.
4. This has no place in your post.
I know, I was just pointing out that there were more lies. Sorry.
Jim Smith