littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Ahhh...you admit to mistakes... LOL

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Around my line of work, we refer to those who don't make mistakes, as though who "don't do anything"....
I figure if I make a hundred decisions a day (starting with what underwear I put on in the morning) and I get 98% of them right, I still made at least 2 mistakes. Whether that is the socks I put on, or the breakfast choice I made, or something I said in a conversation, it is still a mistake. Some of them don't mean to much, but some of them do. I learned a long time ago I was not perfect, and neither are those I work and play with. We each have "genogram", thats a nice way of saying we all have things in our past that make us act the way we do.
Now I know you weren't thinking I was perfect, if you did there's your mistake right there....[>:][X(]

Mike in DC

I'm not saying you are wrong, and I won't say you're confusing reality and the Internet (last guy didn't like that), but do you have any science to back up your claim that RCUniverse membership is larger and has "younger spirit" (more on that later) than the AMA? Even if RCUniverse claims more than 160,000 members, how many of them are paying, and how many are in the U.S., and, more importantly, how many of them actually exist? Don't get me wrong, I love RCUniverse, but comparing its free membership of with the AMA paid membership isn't really that meaningful.

The "younger spirit" thing really baffles me. What is "young spirit"? A lot of guys in leadership positions in my club seem to have very young spirits (despite their being over 50) in the sense that they like fun, like toys and have a lot of energy for helping the club. They seem to have older spirits in that they are concerned about noise and safety and keeping our field. Heck, they got the field and do the right political things to keep it. That's pretty adult in my book, but it also seems like a Good Thing. I don't know what age you are (I'm 55), but the one thing that is certain is that eventually you too will be old, and whether you have old or young spirit, I hope you'll get the respect and dignity you deserve, whatever your spirit. Being young is great, but it's not necessarily what makes successful or unsuccessful organizations.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

LOL...I knew you weren’t perfect and not beyond mistakes...I just didn't know you knew it.

I figured you to be always right… like STL is…

KidEpoxy

Doc-
Uh, ballots with only one name to check? Hard to belive folks are not motivated to buy a stamp for the unopposed incumbant.

If your DVP is on your side. If STL got elected DVP, there is no way Hoss & I can get him to front our voice to the EC about MA.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

I can pretty much tell you the date I stopped being "right", it was 20 years when I got married...LOL
I know I am neither perfect, nor always right. The biggest problem around here is that there are a heckuva lot of folks that know neither... I have even had times I will disagree with STL, but in this case I have to side with him, it is not our business.
My stance on this is not whether it was right or wrong for this man to get fired, it is whether it is right or wrong for us to insist that the AMA divulge personal information and employment records on those who work at the AMA. That is all.
Tommy

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

You ask the question... then you answer it!. Seems it may be a little hard to explain to you since the definition is whatever you decide at the time. I will refrain from trying... no matter the merit of my post you will just circumnavigate any point. It seems inherent as evidenced by your previous post.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

And no one is asking for personal information...just a real reason. I will concede… if AMA is just about business... fine...no need to know but if more like a club entity... yes, we should have more insight.

If my club’s BODs fired the mowing crew I would expect to know why but if a private entity owned the field and simply made a change, for whatever the reason, while maintaining our bargain it would matter little.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Red, you are right. If someone does't know that they are already post paid, they are probably not exercising their right to send them back in. KE, complaining about your choices is your right, you are not the only one that has to be pleased however. If you don't like the choices write one in, but vote.
I too don't necessarily like the fact that Hoss was left off the ticket, seems like he would have made a good candidate, at least he is interested enough to do something, and he tries to keep everyone informed. I don't neccesarily always agree with his methods, but I think his heart is in the right place. Doesn't make him wrong, nor me neither, but I support his right to be on the ticket. That being said, I am not going to dwell on it, and find something wrong with everything done at the AMA.
Tommy

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

But herein lies the problem, it's both, the AMA is a business, a corporation at that. Their "product" is a membership based organization. Problem is that members and even the employees are confusing where their place in life really belongs. Your membership benefits outline where you as an AMA member belong in the grand scheme of things, I suggest you read it and the bylaws. I can't find anywhere that says I'm involved anywhere with the admin of the AMA, but I do get a magazine.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Another slick twist and wrong as usual. Membership based organization as a product...get real.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I really do not think the original intent of those that founded AMA was to have it be a business…i.e. offering products and services as you claim STL, rather to be a membership based organization wherein members can collectively benefit while promoting the hobby. You and others apparently are trying to change the original concept by capitalizing on the hobby to promote the AMA. Yes…That is the true point of contention. Your concept intends to mine the hobby for its worth to the AMA business.

Some of us don’t buy into that philosophy. I sure do not buy into your twisted perceptions.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Hard to fathom huh, and you thought it was just some kind of insurance provider with a crappy magazine. But you might want to take a gander at the AMA bylaws, particularly under Article 2 and 3. You will clearly see what the AMA really does and where you and the rest of the members fit in.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Crank,
You and I can finally agree on something. I too think the original intent of the AMA was not to be a business, and that its original intent has been either lost or refocused. I think you hit the nail on the head. It however does now have to act like a business in order to survive. They are forced to look at their expenditures and bottom line and make decisions that are sometimes unpopular because they know the majority of the modelers out there only really belong for one reason, the insurance and the neccessity to belong in order to use an AMA sanctioned field or attend a meet.
The promotion of aeromodeling has become a secondary concern, but still an important one.
That has little to do with the current discussion, but I guess one could argue that it is indirectly related.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Unfortunately, that may very well be true. But I feel if this morphing is allowed to continue we will find the hobby in a place that only a few of us will be able to contend with in the future. Right now we are the beneficiaries of current conditions such as the arf/electric/inexpensive/readily available glut...it will end... then what? If we don't grow the hobby (the true hobby) now there will be nothing to support the AMA in the future and the whole hobby/sport may very well hang in the balance. Somewhere it seems to me that the AMA will have to put more emphases on the brotherhood now than the bottom line for the survival of all. If the trend continues as “AMA is big business�, we have put the writing on the wall for the future generations and will have sealed our fate. They will not be impressed not even a little bit.

Whatever Steve K did to get him removed may never be known but it is real clear that he was an overall asset to the AMA by being enthusiastic and transferring the same to others. We should be very careful when we allow mediocre business reasons to outweigh the synergy from enthusiasts like Steve. Sometimes swallowing one’s pride is something one should be proud of and would be overall the best plan…in this case that might apply to JC…but we may (probably) never know.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

If you didn't live in denial you would realize the AMA is what it is. It's a corporation filed like any other corporation and does about 12-15mm in revs, tax free. You can't take away what the AMA is and what the AMA does, and not just what it does. If you realized this you would also realize that you don't get the right to have everything you want to get out of the AMA, when you want it. Your $58 only carries you so far (see membership benefits) and then next year you have to pay again. You don't get any piece of the AMA, it all belongs to the corporation, NONE of the AMA belongs to you. Sorry but that is the reality you don't need to pour your song and dance on to me.

abel_pranger

Sorry STL, no matter how many times you repeat it, the fact that it is non-profit corporation isn't selling the notion that members' say doesn't count for anything. Many chartered clubs are corporations, under the same section of the IRS code that AMA is incorporated under. Try selling that same argument in the context of what the rights of members are in the running of their incorporated clubs.

Abel

ira d

I also agree that members are supposed to have a say in how the AMA is run thats
why they have elections, the problem is that most of the membership is not that
much aware of the workings inside the AMA and many dont vote.

At my club i have only heard one person bring up Steves dismissal no one else
knew what he was talking about. He also was suprised to hear that the EC had
no power to intervien in Steves dismissal.

rcuman

From page 27


Has anybody reached China yet? I need that dang cowl!!!

KidEpoxy

If we do bring one back you cant use it,
you know, lead paint and all

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Listen Abel, here is the bottom line, the members say counts when they respect the AMA bylaws. If they don't respect and utilize the channels and procedures granted to them then what's the point of having them in the first place?

The AMA membership is in fact a by-product of the corporation. It's written in plain English in the bylaws, just start from the beginning. The point I'm trying to make with LCS is the fact that his rights end with the membership benefits. He and a few others think he's above what the AMA produces and part of the corporation itself, and they are not. The AMA does not issue stock.

Jim Cherry DOES NOT have answer to the members. He answers to the EC and if the EC decides it's in the best interest of the membership, they will relay the info to the members directly or in public, their choice.

KidEpoxy

is that to include folks cicumventing 'the bylaws' to get & spread gossip the AMA has (seemingly) put a gag on?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Members can do whatever they want on their time Kid. Spread rumors, eat pizza, go fly fishing. There is nothing in the AMA bylaws that AMA members can't spread information. I already told you, some members got their information first hand from the EC. Some of that information passed onto others. You can believe it, or not, your choice. But if you want official word, then ask the official people, or just keep on shouting into your empty hole.

Silent-AV8R

Once again, the AMA has NOT put a "gag" order out or any such thing. AMA is simply conducting itself the way any other business or organization would regarding a sensitive personnel issue.

But I know it suits many here to think that MA is "up to something" or trying to "hide the truth". Get real and spend of few minutes breathing the air out in the real world so you can understand how these things really work.

When I was a manager, and now that I operate my own company, when I got a call about a former employer ALL we could say was to confirm the dates of employment. PERIOD. Say anything else, positive or negative, and the person involved can possibly sue you and/or your company. And that is how it REALLY works.