s3nfo

My Feedback: (14)

I was going to refute this, but your screen name reminded me of the axiom of arguing with pigs. The absolute best response is "see post #39"

We have people who are willing to discuss the issues, we have the debators who don't really care about the issues, they just enjoy a good recreational argument, then we have the few master debators.

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Read the thread... and ditto what S3 said; but dang it, maybe it was a mistake getting back into this hobby! What's the old axiom, "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem". By the way Cpig, I'm sure all the vets who are now or were federal employees appreciate your grouping them into one category of uselessness. Maybe next time your arss needs protecting you can "reach out" and text someone. Sorry, but I'm sure I'm not the only one.... forget it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hook, I'm a vet and also privately contracted to NAVELEX, so I know how the game with Uncle Sugar is played in GS Land.

Sorry if you don't want to face reality, but some of the most highly skilled wasters of money work[ed] for the Fed.

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

tell it like it is CP, been there done that too... fugem

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

LF, I've heard that for part of the Civil Service exam they time you to see how quickly you can make a wheelbarrow full of money disappear.
Of course, they downgrade you for actually working up a sweat.....

Is it any wonder that the same guys who don't think spending a 1/2 mill on the PPP was a waste of money are the same ones who think the DVPs need more operating capital so they can visit more clubs and attend more banquets?

GIJon

My Feedback: (118)

I would like to ask once again to get back on topic. Personal attacks are not needed or wanted here. If you wish to discuss these topics, please start another thread. Thank you.

cj_rumley

Pigg-

You have a weird sense of humor that I usually find entertaining, but you're over the line here and it's one of very few times I'd really welcome the mods to put the kibosh on it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry CJ, but most of what I have said wasn't meant to be funny.

rkimmerle

I found this topic interesting which is why I started reading it only to find stupid comments, too many tangents and too many egos. Just quit typing and go flying. That should calm you all down. Next discussion for me. I'm out.

cj_rumley

If it was meant to make a point in some way relevant to this thread topic, it's high time to make it - or go change your Depends.

Stickbuilder

I don't know so much about that. I guess it would depend upon which ex Executive Committee member owned property in that location. [:@]

Bill, AMA 4720

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

for those with fragile egos the civil serpent test gives no points for anything productive besides consumption...lol

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

I faced reality decades ago; point was you catagorized it with ALL. At least now you saySOME, which is reality and can easily be agreed with.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

CJ, the point that I have been making all along is that what this candidate considers to be crucial, essential business...really isn't in the grand scheme of things.

For $17,000 I can fly from here to Tampa and back 30 times. If $17,000 isn't enough money for this guy to conduct the duties as outlined by AMA bylaws, then there should be someone else who can step in to make it work.

With the increase of accessablility to AMA related info via the internet, the importance of the DVP and AVP positions has diminished. If these positions were to be eliminated, the sport and hobby would continue to go on as usual with no ill effects.

KidEpoxy

I'm not getting into a big fight over different opinions on how important actually traveling to clubs is to the DVP position.

It either IS important, or it ISNT.
Lets just look at how many times the clubs in Guam were visited in the past couple terms of that position,
and either they are getting the important required personal attendance,
or the important personal attendance is skipped over for the Guam clubs
... or it really aint that important.

If you have 10 clubs in one county,
visit one and you get an idea of whats going on in that county.
If you have some clubs in an entire separate offshore Guam, shouldnt we find out whats happening out there rather than visit another club in the same local county again and again?
OR, just say it aint that important to physically go there in the Information Age.



Oh, and for the folks that like to drag size and Texas into this,
Sure there are smaller states with more clubs.
That very much says that the club density is higher: Its easy to visit 10 clubs in one day if you high density feed lot them into a small state like CA. But in a full size state with fewer clubs there is far more travel involved, and a corresponding increase in travel time and cost to visit 10 clubs.

804

My Feedback: (1)

I would agree that if candidacy for office is the topic, and part of the platform is spending a boatload of member money on an unneeded (but possibly desired) 2nd flying site, then the candidates views on spending is fair game for discussion.

To me, the issue comes down to three questions:
Is it fair to have a national flying site, that is really only useable for a small fraction of the membership for most of the year?
Do we really need a 2nd site, even if the answer to #1 is, no?
Can we really afford to spend the money, even if the answer to #2 above is, yes?

The point I am taking from CP is that just about everything we are talking about, in the grand scheme, are superfluous, including maybe, the hobby itself.
So it is time, especially with the economy and shrinking membership to step back and take a realistic look at priorities, and I would agree that a
Western site is not one. JMO.

Hossfly

Definitely agreed here.

More definite agreement. BTDT.

Now let us NOT ignore one simple great benefit of being an elected Officer - a DIRECTOR - of the AMA, an IRC 501 (c) (3) organization. A Director can be reimbursed some of his expenses. All others are deductible as a donation or even as an "employee" whichever route the individual desires to take.

1.) Go to a hobby shop, mention AMA XXXX and the round trip is mileage deductible at business rates. Go to a flying field, a club meeting, and the same applies. Enjoy a lunch or such with some club officers. All same. Mileage and expenses including overnight.
Don't overlook the fees for attending a Flying Event.

2.) Join all the SIGs and same applies. After all the "Director" needs to keep up with what's happening.

3.) Build a new airplane, buy a new radio, engine, etc. As a Director you have to keep up with the market and what's happening so you can make better executive decisions like promoting a park-pilot program and such.

You get a lot of bennies with being an AMA Director elected DVP, EVP, Pres. As an upright citizen, should you sell some of that merchandise, of course, you would include that income in your records to offset the purchase expenses. I knew you would!

Not in doubt here.

cj_rumley

Pigg-

Tnks for clarifying. You got off on what I saw as as a political tangent that seemed far removed from the machinations of AMA. Now you're back on a related topic again. Carry on.

Cletus

Silent-AV8R

There are no current AMA clubs in Guam and to the best of my knowledge the District X VP has never made a visit there. At least for the 10 or 12 years that I can recollect. I do not know the number of AMA members in Guam.

Silent-AV8R

If you wanted to eliminate the DVPs you would have to fundamentally change the organization. The District VPs are the members of the Executive Council, which in other organizations is called the Board Of Directors. Sort of difficult to understand how the organization would operate without a Board of Directors. Hence it seems getting rid of the District VPs would pose some significant challenges.

How would you propose doing so and how would you see structuring the AMA in the absence of a Board of Directors??

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I got it, I think I got it...Jumping up and down wildly with hand raised....

How 'bout just hiring an executive dictator...pay him a big salary and let him have the last word in our monthly news letter....especially now since we will have a lot more room without all those silly event postings...

Silent-AV8R

Well, we have certainly, and not unsurprisingly, gotten well off track in this thread. Those that propose dissolving the current administrative structure of the AMA, i.e. the Executive Council comprised of an elected volunteer "Board of Directors" are essentially advocating the dissolution of the AMA. Eliminating the EC and relying solely on paid staff to develop and execute the leadership of the organization is simply not an option.

ltougas

Happy Monday Morning Everyone,

I went down to the RCX show in Pomona this weekend. I want to thank the Pomona Valley Model Airplane Club and the Scale Squadron for allowing me to use their booths so I could meet AMA members and give them a chance to tell me what they wanted from their DVP. Hopefully a friend will send me some pictures soon that I will post on my blog.

I was off the board for the weekend and upon returning all I can say is, “WOW.” There is a lot of stuff on here that is way off topic so I’m going to leave that stuff alone.

As far as traveling to clubs and events I am a big proponent of it. You have to get out and, “show the flag” it is the best way to get to know the people and the issues that are important to them. As DVP if one of my AVP’s volunteers their time to travel somewhere to represent the District I would gladly reimburse them for reasonable expenses. It just makes sense, they are giving up time they could spend with family and friends and shouldn’t need to go out of pocket for it. I think 99.999% of AMA members can get behind that.

I take exception to some of Silent-AV8R’s (who is a District X AVP) comments in post 20. Specifically;

Basically how far past the "Hey, I've got a good idea" stage have you gone?? I ask this because you seem to dismiss the previous effort and apparently feel that they dropped the ball. You said as much at your campaign stop at the El Toro field late last year when you said that the previous people should have "just kept going and tired harder".

You are misrepresenting my feelings in this area. You have put in quotes words that did not come out of my mouth, and I would sincerely appreciate it if you would retract them. I am on the record from last year’s campaign as acknowledging the people who worked on this and tipping my hat to them. Specifically I said the following;

I have no doubt that the previous efforts to obtain a District X flying site were done by a committed group of AMA members. I’m not sure why the process stopped. We both agree that it is a worthy goal. There is no question that meeting that goal will be a long-term-project, something I have experience in accomplishing successfully. Projects like this aren’t sprint races; they are more like relay races. One team takes the reigns for a while then a new team comes in to relieve them and so on. If one plan runs into insurmountable obstacles you make a new plan. There is no reason not to have a standing committee in District X to secure a flying site. We should have an on-going fund raising effort to pay for it. This may take a long time but we should be working towards it on a monthly basis. One thing is for sure if we say it can’t be done we’ll always be right. I say it can be done.

I went on to acknowledge them again here and commit to discussing their experiences so we could build on them;

I understand that an attempt was made in the past to create a District X flying site. As I said earlier I am sure the people involved worked hard and went above and beyond the call of duty. The effort doesn’t have to stop there. If elected I would certainly discuss the issue with them so we could take away any lessons learned from the effort.

These are my past and present feelings on the previous effort to build a District X flying site.

Sincerely,
Lawrence Tougas
Candidate for District X Vice President
http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/

Silent-AV8R

Larry - while it is nice to see the words you wrote, my statement is based on what you said in person during the meeting you had at the OCRCC at El Toro last year. During that conversation you came right out and said that the previous effort gave up too easily and that they should have "just kept going" and "got it done". While I did not have a tape recorder running, I know what I actually heard you say. I'll leave it at that I may have misunderstood you.

But let me add since we are trading indignations now, let me say how much I resented your statement during that same meeting that Jerry and myself, both long-time AMA AVPs for District X, were "Jim's people". Clearly implying that we were there to represent Jim. If you recall, I clearly pointed out that I am and AMA AVP, not a "Jim's" AVP. Just as I now make my statement based on my dedication to the AMA, not the specific person who is filling the DVP slot at this time. I do happen to feel that Mike Brown is well qualified to fill Jim's seat permanently, but I stand by the fact that my first priority is serving the Academy and the members of District X whom I represent.

Regardless, I stand by my opinion that your desire to build a District flying site is an inefficient use of the time of the DVP, is not financially viable, and represents a clear lack of understanding of the how and what of the previous effort.

cj_rumley

Well, you have said previously in this forum IIRC is that the efforts to build a regional site in CA was killed by some tree huggers and their concerns over the welfare of some obscure species of toads that breed in vernal pools put the kibosh on that plan. Do I need to dig that up from the forum archives for you?