Silent-AV8R

This is a perfect summary of Mike and the reasons that I too will be voting for him. And I can add that as one of the current AVPs I know up close and personal how committed he is and how extraordinarily well qualified he is to hold this position. He has a solid and realistic grasp of the issues that we face and understands the environment that he must work in to represent our District.

If you are in SOCAL he will be at the RCX show in Pomona most of tomorrow and he is getting around to several flying sites over the next few days. He will be out art Sepulveda Basin on Sunday as well. He is making this trip on his own dime as well and not using any District money for it. WHich I repsect since anyone who thinks that the $17,000 budget is a lot of money really has no clue what it takes to cover and represent a District this large, both in members and in geographic size.

Silent-AV8R

Double post. Too dumb to use the Internet I guess [&:]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Well, why don't you take this opportunity to tell us why it is necessary for DVPs and AVPs to physically travel the district.

What official AMA business is there that so urgently requires your physical presense?

Let's be honest.

The Juice

My Feedback: (1)

I would also like to know this.

Silent-AV8R

The reason that District Staff need to travel is to attend events, go to club meetings, meet with various people around the District and simply be out there to represent the District and to know what is going on.

As a matter of interest I have never requested a reimbursement for any travel of other expenses I have incurred going to events, meetings, and so on. Most of the other AVPs I know do the same.

SO let me ask you, do you feel that the district staff has no legitimate need to travel the District and that everything can be done over the phone or internet??

s3nfo

My Feedback: (14)

Well, OK, Most recently I've gone to events/meetings at the request of the club to explain status of S-UCAS work being done by AMA, explain proceedures for selecting new District representation upon the death of the incumbent and to present Fellow and Hall of Fame awards.
As Bill has stated, I've not requested nor been reimbursed for any of my travel.

I have on occassion spent Dist X budget money to set-up a booth at events, postal costs for paperwork clubs and members needed to satisfy property owners and local government officials and when I've represented AMA to local government/property owners trying to get or retain flying sites.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Besides the HOF event, everything else you listed could have been done by proxy.

I've got to believe that some of you guys with this warped sense of what a dollar is worth are retired Federal employees.

GIJon

My Feedback: (118)

Ordinarilly, I would not reply to a question like this as it doesn't qualify for an intelligent answer.

However your done by proxy comment is absurd.

Let me give you a typical example...A local club president contacts the DVP or local AVP and requests an AMA official attend a club Christmas party or other event to present an AMA District X Award of Excellence to a fellow modeler who has made significant contributions to the hobby. The DVP or AVP say we will just email it or mail it and you can give it to him. What kind of signal does that send to the membership about AMA leadership.

You will say...that's just one...but wait...I have a hundred more...

You will be the first guy to complain...how come we never see any of the leadership...they must be sitting on their duff and spending our district money for what?

You are not even a member of this district...so why the grilling...you should be asking these questions of Bruce Nelson or do you hate him also.

And to sum this up...what in the world does any of this have to do with 2 gentlemen running for election? Let's get back on track in this forum...please!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

ABSURD!?

You see nothing wrong with the membership footing the bill to fly guys around to shake each other's hands at Xmas parties?

As to your comment about this being none of my business since I'm not a member of this district...this is my business because I don't want to see this wastefull and frivolous attitude towards the AMA's money go unchallenged.

I would never complain about not seeing any of the "leadership".
What or why would I need to see a DVP for?
I can find all sorts of ways to have a great time with this hobby without any of their help.

If I ever find out that my money is being used to fund some kind of good 'ol boy, jet settin', banquet circuit, I'll put a quick stop to that.

Hossfly

Mr. Tougas:

As an AMA District Vice President, you help establish policies that effect each and every member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics. For example the AMA Bylaws define the duties of a DVP:

Section 6.

The District Vice President of each of the AMA

districts, as a member of the Executive Council, will formulate

policy, serve on committees (when appointed), and resolve other

matters brought before the Executive Council. The District Vice

President will appoint all of the following for his district: Contest

Board members, Contest Coordinator(s), Frequency Coordinator,

and Associate Vice President. The District Vice President is

responsible for maintaining Academy contact within the district

and providing coordination with Headquarters on AMA matters.

Therefore just because I do not reside in your district, each and all of your functions do effect me in some manner. For anyone reading this post, you may notice that the DVP duties do NOT state that the DVP represents his district to AMA. In reality it almost says the opposite using "....maintaining Academy contact within the district..."

I am a long time member of the SIG IMAA. Now I have a question for you. As you must know, the AMA event sanction procedures refuse any event separation protection between an IMAA Event and any AMA (non IMAA) event.

Personally I feel this is a death knell for IMAA events, and this area certainly proves so. I also feel it is an unjust punishment of IMAA because IMAA wishes to keep its sanctioned events for its membership.

I do not know your connection or care for any SIG. Yet, I ask you how do YOU stand on this issue? Would you, if elected for a full term as an AMA DVP bring this item before the EC and fight to get IMAA a fair chance in the conduct of their own events?
Without fair event distance protection, the IMAA club may be trying to host a large event, yet a non-IMAA Club can come right in beside them and host an AMA sanctioned "Big Bird" event. It happens.

The question is important to me because so far, no one in IMAA has displayed the courage to face the AMA hierarchy with a strong movement to make a change. Do You?
Thank you for your attention:

Silent-AV8R

I am not aware of nor have I ever heard of "guys being flown around" to shake hands at a Christmas party. Most all AMA District people I know of drive to whatever events they need to go to. AMA HQ people do fly, so maybe some of your anger should be directed that way.


You have every right to your opinion, but I take exception to your characterization that travel is a frivolous waste of money. And that is not a DVP's decision by themselves. That is a decision of the entire EC, so maybe you should contact your DVP and try to get him to understand your position. Maybe you can convince him to get the AMA to cancel all the money for the Districts.

You may not, but it is the number one thing we hear. District X has nearly 300 clubs and it is impossible to get around to all of them, but I know every club that does get a visit is always happy for the time spent by the DVP or AVPs.

This is simply a silly way to put it.

BTW - we are talking about +/- $1.28 of each member's dues for the total District budgets just to put this alleged extravagance in perspective.

Silent-AV8R

This is an out right distortion. The AMA does not "refuse" it. IMAA CHOOSES to sanction their events so only their members can participate in them. That is not the same thing as the AMA forcing them to do so.

IMAA events are non-rule book events. AMA events are typically rule book events, meaning competition. Isn't one of the founding principles of IMAA that they shun competition? How do you see the two negatively affecting each other??

And can you point to a single IMAA event that you feel was harmed because there was also an AMA rulebook competition event on the same weekend within 100 miles??

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I've seen with 1 example where a DVP's presence was needed, the HOF party. I'm sure there might be other examples where the World will stop turning if the DVP doesn't make the scene.

I'm sure you do take exception to my characterizations about wastefullness. For guys in your shoes the best defense is a good offense.....[8D]

Give me a break about the urgent need that 300 clubs have to be honored with your presence. Now we're crossing the line into "delusions of granduer"....

Yah, it's only a buck-twenty-eight, no big deal, easy come, easy go.

s3nfo

My Feedback: (14)

Club President - AVP, my club has had several questions recently about how the S-UCAS discussions are going and we'd like someone to come talk to our members and explain the situation.
AVP - Well, I used to drive to the club meeting on my own nickle and talk to clubs, but Mr. Combatpig says even though this costs the District nothing, it's an extravagant waste of members money, so here's what we'll do now. At 7:00 PM I'll call your cell phone and you hold it up and I'll talk real loud. Please have your members come up to the phone before asking questions so I can hear them.


Club President - AVP, We have an internal club award for the member that's done the most for the club over the past year, John Doe has worked relentlessly in getting the club sanctioned/event scheduled/runway paved/et al. It would mean a lot to the member we're presenting it to if someone from AMA could come present it to him.
AVP - Well, I used to drive to the club meetings on my own nickle to present awards, but Mr. Combatpig says even though this costs the District nothing, it's an extravagant waste of members money, so here's what we'll do now. I'll email you a proxy endorsement from the local AVP and you print a copy and give it to him when you present the award.

Club President - AVP, We're having our annual Spring Fling event and we'd really appreciate it if someone from the AMA could come to the event.
AVP - Well, I used to drive to events on my own nickle and usually brought an airplane and paid entry fees (on my own nickle) to fly at the event, but Mr. Combatpig says even though this costs the District nothing, it's an extravagant waste of members money, so here's what we'll do now. I'll take some video of me flying and talking to people at an event here in the town I live in and you can show it at your event, call it a proxy attendance at your event.

Silent-AV8R

You so totally and completely miss the point that it is senseless to continue the discussion.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

S3, whether you realize it or not, even cell phones have a conference call speaker button. This is a very effective way to carry on a meeting or a briefing, it's done everyday. As far as driving around to hand out awards to every guy who pitches in to help a club with donated time and equipment...you could do that around the clock, 24/7 and still not be able to reach out to every guy deserving of a plaque. We could allocate $1 million per year to you for plaque dispersal expense money and it still wouldn't be enough. Every club field has it's own heroic stories to tell, but you've got to draw the line somewhere that is reasonable.
Finally, what makes you think that a DVP or AVP's presense at any event does anything more to enrich that event than the attendance of anyone else who decides to show up?

I think it's about time you re-read Animal Farm...it should be mandatory reading for all elected officials whereever they happen to be rooting around.

Muroc1

It always makes me laugh when the guys that complain the most and loudest about the grass not being cut has never spent any time on the mower.

Frank

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Frank, there is some truth to that, but you will also find that those who care the most have much of their own time invested in the welfare of the whole.

Hoss brings up a good point about what the originally intended roles of the DVP /AVPs really is.

Human nature being what it is, some guys want to make these positions seem more crucial to the success and the enjoyment of the hobby than what they really are.

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

I thought pork barrel politics was the new way forward in America......look at the "health care" bill. Pork barrel has been the name of the the government, AMA, and politics in general for a long time.

Those who wish to change that are the ones who don't usually get elected.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

CLS, so true.

Look at how wastefull attitudes towards spending money and inabilities to set priorities ruined California.

40 years ago, California was in the top 5 most wealthy NATIONS on Earth.
Look at it now....the tremendous, ridiculous and embarrassing collapse didn't just happen by accident.

The same people who led that great State into the toilet are the same ones today who are screaming the loudest for the rest of the Nation to come to their rescue.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Ok guys, let's leave politics out of the discussion here. RCU is a striclty "No Politics" zone.

Thanks for your cooperation here.

Ken

Muroc1

No doubt about that. It's what I call pride in ownership.

Frank

Hossfly

You, Sir, are making the super-distortion. IMAA is organized for its membership. When they have an event, they prefer the company of their own. Unlike an AMA Pattern event (and all other competitive events) which segregates through a certain airplane specification, IMAA separates by person. No real difference, except AMA requires any event separation to be by prescribed airplane design.
AMA MAKES A RULE. IMAA has to live with it. Just like AMA makes rules that Charter Clubs must be 100% AMA membership, and AMA Sanctioned events are limited to AMA members only. We that want to enter events being sponsored by AMA Charter Clubs, and/or any AMA Sanctioned Event, must anti-up for AMA membership. All those events except Class B Contests receive some Distance Protection between like events.
So why cannot IMAA or any SIG not receive at least Class C protection when sponsoring an event?

By your "logic"??, I would not have to pay my taxes. Governments make rules. You and I have to follow or go to jail. Government does not force me to follow the rules, they do offer an option. But I pay the "protection" and I think you do same!!!

If dumb was dirt, your 2nd sentence in the above quoted paragraph, would be 40 acres. Check out the RC events in the schedules. Most are Fly-Ins. CL and FF are mostly some competition, but RC is dominantly Fly-In. Yes, IMAA events are of the Fly-In type, like the majority of RC events.

Thanks for that question. You BETCHA! 5 years ago I was planning for a large IMAA and AMA sanctioned 2-day event. Advertising and various awards for non competition, Large BBQ dinner, and a great time for all was going smoothly for 9 months or so. Then just 2 months prior, a large Club, more in the mainstream of the area population, sanctioned an AMA "Big Bird" event.
I went all the way to Dave Brown, but no relief was allowed. Both Clubs lost a big portion of potential fliers. The other club even lost some of their own club members that came to our event because they were so embarrassed by their own club's behavior.

Prior to that I supported that club's events each year. Not so since. I do not go there. Also, I no longer do IMAA events, because neither the AMA or IMAA cares to right a wrong and provide basic protection for ALL events. The membership has to suffer, and IMO only because of basic gross intolerance in upper hierarchy of AMA. The upper crust doesn't give a darn about the folks that expend their own funds to build up a great event, then get kicked in the rear by AMA rules that only protect the ego of some greater-than-thou individual.


To regain some inkling of the original topic, the other candidate is asked the same question on another forum.

wb5ziy

District X is comprised of Arizona, California, Hawaii, Nevada, and Utah. It is the single largest District both in geographical area, but also by AMA members. Not surprisingly California is the most populous state in the District.

[/quote]

Might want to reconsider that District X is the largest in geographical area, I do not think so. If you check the geographical area of District X verses District VIII or District XI and I would think that there are many more square miles in District XI than any other. I could be wrong, it has been a lot of years since I was in a social studies class!! Not trying to start anything here guys, we are all members of the AMA and who has the biggy District really does not matter.

Jack Matlock
L-976

Silent-AV8R

You forget that Dist X includes Guam and Hawaii!! I think Texas and Alaska will fit between CA and HI!!

But OK, I overstated the geographic area, how about the largest geographic area where anybody lives!!!

Look at the number of clubs:

CA = 208
TX = 127
AK = 7

Put another way, California alone has just about the same number of clubs as all of District VIII combined (208 vs 240). Dist XI has 144 clubs total.

Dist X has a total of 303 clubs. Hawaii has more clubs than Alaska (not by much!! 9 vs 7)

That is what I was really trying to get at. Sorry for offending my 8th grade geography teacher, she would be most unhappy with me (still).