Silent-AV8R

If you are speaking of my opposition then I think you have misunderstood the basis of my opinion. Put plainly, I think it would be a waste of time and money. I also think that the answers to my questions have been vague and show a lack of of understanding regarding the details of how this would be done.

But as Mr. Tougas put it, if you like the idea of a District X flying site, then he is your candidate.

cj_rumley

Nope, no misunderstanding. That is what I have been hearing all along.
Waste of time and money hasn't been outside of AMA's MO. Perhaps something different would be good. Like different from programs none of the members wanted, e.g., PPP..........or hiring political consultants, or pushing a plethora of 'affinity programs' on us and calling it benefits of membership.

When was the last program for members that was not intended primarily to generate new revenue undertaken by AMA?

Cletus

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

To be fair, they have to toe the line between basic survival and pursuit of the "mission pure".
What complicates the execution of the mission are people who are there because they NEED to be there instead of having people there because they WANT to be there.

KidEpoxy

Cletus-
(from the other page)
I'm not sayin the idea of Regional sites is wrong at the concept level,
I have said for a log time that I like the idea,
but we need to see some plans on how to avoid the money pit aspect that it has to overcome.

One plan could be to have it outside of Vegas instead of putting it at the corner of Desolation and Nowheresville. If we developed a business model for it that it would have enough outside draw to not just cut the red ink but return a revenue stream... well that would good as well 'good thing to do'.

There could certainly be other business plans that have it cut the red ink besides just Vegas,
and we simply havent heard them yet.
There is a lot of potential for revenue from it... but we havent heard any of that in its support.
Heck, if if generates as little as $5k profit above costs we should build like 3 more.



If the plan is to have a No/Low Red Ink regional site, that sounds like a good idea,
if the plan is to build Moneypit 2: The Expensening ... well, that aint such a good plan.
So, whats the plan?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

KE, any idea how much money a 50 acre site on prime bottom land would have to bring in 24/7 just to pay the property taxes?

100 acres is actually more realistic, to be able to host a "3 ring circus" type event.

cj_rumley

KidEpoxy and combatpigg-

I consider both of you fellow modelers and friends. You both have concerns and ideas regarding what is best for the future of aeromodeling in the US that we have frequently discussed in this forum and I sometimes agree and sometimes not, but I always respect your opinions and I'm always thankful that you give a tinker's dam about it. That said, I am not running any office. Ask the candidates instead, and hold their feet to the fire. I haven't made up my mind yet which one is better suited for the job. I have made up my mind that doings things the way AMA does because that is the way it has always been done isn't good enough; I revved up my keyboard because it appeared that somebody opposed one of the candidate's based solely on one of his stated goals, because he seemed determined to stay the course of 'failing, but comfortable because it is familiar.'

Cletus

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

CJ, "the candidate" isn't answering any of the tough questions directly, we're just getting vague mumbo-jumbo... so I figure my time is better spent asking KE for some real answers instead.

If the price to post a thread here was higher, I'd absolutely treat this situation differently.

cj_rumley

How did the other candidate reply?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Remember, this isn't the other candidates' thread. His replies have been clear enough for me. I know nothing about him, but I like his "tone" much better than, "the snake oil salesman from 76 trombones".

cj_rumley

Okay, you have decided, I have not, so your guy is ahead. My perspective ATT is that we have to choose between two guys that are both well qualified. It's a no lose proposition.

Cletus

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Regardless of who wins, no matter of what the intentions are, how much harm can any DVP actually do?. Might as well worry about that firecracker that didn't go off back in 1966.....

cj_rumley

CP-

That suggests to me a passive but nonetheless valid reply as chosen by the majority in AMA as in most organizations, in effect "my non-ballot return is to be interpreted as either "none of the above is acceptable," or "any of the candidates are okay by me as I have no position on the issues, so carry on and do as you will."

Cletus

ltougas

I just updated my Blog to include my experiences at my very first Pattern contest. Read to find out how I came in first place in sportsman class.

[link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-i-won-first-place-at-my-first.html]Click here for details.[/link]


Lawrence Tougas
Candidate for AMA District X Vice-President

ltougas

Dear District X Members,

As a candidate in this year's election for AMA District X Vice-President I am getting out and visiting with modelers all over our district. This Saturday I'll be stopping at two events in the California's Southern Central Valley. The first are two free flight contests in one they are the Free Flight Bonanza, and the National Cup. They are put on by the San Diego Orbiteers and the Fresno Gas Model Club. This event will be held at the Lost Hills Model Airfield.

The second event is the Spring Aero-Tow put on by the Visalia's Central Valley R/C Soaring Club. Here modelers will launch scale sailplanes with scale powered tow planes providing the lift.

I have additional information, photos, and maps to both of these events on my website just [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/05/two-events-in-californias-central.htmlhttp://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/05/two-events-in-californias-central.html]click here to read all about it.[/link] While you're at my website please take a look at my [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-candidate-statement.html]candidate statement[/link], [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/10/district-xs-top-eleven.html]most frequently asked questions[/link], and my [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-background.html]background[/link].

I am currently in the process of choosing events I will come to during the campaign to meet D10 members. If you're planning one and would like me to come please let me know. I'm especially interested in events in Arizona, Hawaii, Nevada and Utah. I can't promise I'll make it to every event but I will try my darnedest.

Happy Landings,
Lawrence Tougas
Candidate for AMA District X Vice-President
[link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/]http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/[/link]

ltougas

Dear District X Members,

As a candidate in this year's election for AMA District X Vice-President I am getting out and visiting with modelers all over our district.

Last weekend I went to two events the first was two-meets-in-one, the Free Flight Bonanza and the National Cup. These events were put on by the San Diego Orbiteers and the Fresno Gas Model Club. The second was the spring aero-tow event put on by the Central Valley RC Soaring Club. I have pictures and a write-up of these events [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/05/lost-hills-and-visalia-events.html]here[/link].

This weekend I will be at two more events both in Southern California. The first is the Full Deflection 3-D event put on by the Pomona Valley Model Airplane Club. The second is LA Jets at the San Fernando Valley Flyer's Apollo XI field. Information for both events is [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/05/3-d-flying-at-prado-la-jets-at-apollo.html]here[/link].

While you're at my website please take a look at my [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-candidate-statement.html]candidate statement[/link], [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/10/district-xs-top-eleven.html]most frequently asked questions[/link], and [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-background.html]my background[/link].

I am currently in the process of choosing events I will come to during the campaign to meet D10 members. If you're planning one and would like me to come please let me know. I'm especially interested in events in Arizona, Hawaii, Nevada and Utah. I can't promise I'll make it to every event but I will try my darnedest.

If you would like to serve as my representative at your club which has the primary duty of simply reminding people to vote please let me know

Happy Landings,
Lawrence Tougas
Candidate for AMA District X Vice President
http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/

Longbaskt

My Feedback: (5)

Sheeze guys... I tried to read all the posts to see what was going on with the election... everything but. I am from the district and I voted for Mr. Tougas last time and I will again. I haven't been impressed by anyone at the AMA except Mr. Tougas. He traveled at his own expense for two years running to campaign to you bunch of whiners. We had the National flying site in the "then president's" back yard... it's rained out most the time. California as well as AZ and NV enjoys pleasant weather almost continuously. However it's a lead weight and can't be sold. So, if we're serious about a second site.. It'll happen. If not... there are plenty of other topics to consider.

I'm voting for him and I hope he can hang in there long enough to make a difference or get more like him on board.

I watched many of our members wait for Lawrence to come and meet them... He stepped out first and initiated a conversation with each and every person at the fly in and meeting I've seen him at. Then he LISTENED... not preached, whined, complained.. just listened.... very rare these days. I must admit I've never seen another AMA person at our apparently famous AMA show in January even acknowledge someone outside their little circle of friends.

Its time to stop the insidious inbreeding at AMA and bring in someone new.

To me, that's Lawrence.

Silent-AV8R

Not to quibble, but Mr. Tougas was not even approved as a Leader Member until sometime last year, and you must be a Leader Member to even get nominated for AVP, let alone the DVP position. He was only nominated for the DVP election around the middle of last year, so it is hard to see how you can claim that has been on the campaign trail for two years now.

In addition he is not "with the AMA" now, nor has he ever been, so maybe it is his "outsider" status that attracts you since you are clearly unhappy with what you perceive to be an "inbred group". That is your perfect right to do. But let's try to stick to facts.

That is not meant to take away from his campaign, he has done a nice job of getting out and about. As has the current DVP incumbent, Mike Brown. Mike recently traveled to SOCAL and Nevada, on his own dime, to visit clubs, etc. In fact he was at your club I believe (Santa Fe Dam club).

Mike detailed this in the latest District X Newsletter, which he also started and continues to do. You can see all three District X newsletters that Mike has done here: http://www.ama10.org/
Look for the "NEWSLETTER" tab on the upper right.

ltougas

Longbaskt,
Thank you for the kind words. I enjoyed visiting with everyone at Santa Fe Dam you have a nice field. I didn't agree with how you were directed to shorten your runway and I would have handled it differently.

We came within 34 votes of winning last year with your support we'll get the job done this year.

Lawrence Tougas
AMA 232

Silent-AV8R

Just to be clear, that situation was done by the previous DVP, Jim Giffin. The current DVP, Mike Brown did not take that action. And I also want to remind everyone that the last election was against Jim Giffin and not Mike Brown. Those results have no bearing on the current election.

All I can say is that Mike Brown is not Jim.

Longbaskt

My Feedback: (5)

This is his second year at attempting to be our district rep. - Sorry, two election times is more accurate, even if the second is a special election because of Jim untimely demise just to be exact. I think my information reflects my current membership, which is not Santa Fe Dam. After witnessing the actions of AMA which included Jim an others... Yes, I have a very sour taste in my mouth regarding AMA..

1. Cub in existence for over 30 years without a claim.
2. No modifications to the site since original approval or change in freeway proximity.
3. Gullibility to listen to disgruntled members without listening to the other side. Anyone with kids know there are two sides and listens... not AMA... and NOT EVER! Two disgruntled members were subsequently expelled from the club... DUH!
4. Snap decision rendered prior to even being on-site - from the freeway of all places! The original proclamation was that it should never have been granted and should be closed immediately. Then when they actually got down to where we fly... YOU KNOW, THE IMPORTANT PART OF A FLYING SITE, they reconsidered and came up with the arbitrary boundary. Never mind that the current set up was within the allowed/ suggested limits given... except that chicken little took a look and declared from on high that we were out of compliance.. Yeah, that sat real good with the club. That's the AMA you want to support... be my guest... but I won't vote that way!
5. Arbitrary and capricious decision.. If the original regulation to restrict the runway length was in any way scientific.... why was is modified by a phone call and subsequently relocated again later? So, like is there a real reason here or is it just the way they felt on that day?

Did Mike come out with Jim on that day? I don't know, but others from AMA were drug out by the malcontents. I do know that Jim was not alone in the decision... so if that makes Mike suspect as he was Jim's #2 at the time.

I don't have anything against Mike personally... I talked to him at RCX and congratulated him on the new newsletter... nice work and long overdue. I just like Lawrence. He gets my vote.

Longbaskt

My Feedback: (5)

He was part of Jim's group... Your post smacks of the Nazi defense.. " I didn't kill those people, someone else did... It just happened to take place in my concentration camp."

So are you saying that Jim was a loose cannon or that he ran an effective group... either way, why didn't Mike speak up if he was against the actions taken? I think that made the radar of just about the entire AMA membership, and it's pretty much universally seen as a massive overreaction to a problem that didn't exist.

If Mike has a comment, I'd like to hear it.

Silent-AV8R

DVP's to my knowledge do not have "#2s". But then I have only been an AVP for around a decade so and served under three of them, so maybe I missed the memo.

I happen to know that Jim was the one who made the decision and also that Mike did not agree with him. It amuses me that you somehow feel you have some special insight into how Jim made his decision and who was involved in it. Oh well.


But despite saying you have nothing against Mike you clearly hold him somehow responsible since you view him (erroneously) as having been Jim's "#2".

You can certainly vote for whom you wish to, but it is very sad to see that much of your opinion is based on an incorrect perception of the facts.

Silent-AV8R

Nazis?? Really?? Wow.

cj_rumley

Silent-

Regarding "In addition he is not "with the AMA" now, nor has he ever been...." perhaps it would clarify if you would elucidate your definition/perception of "with the AMA."

Silent-AV8R

I was responding to this specifically:

This implies that Mr. Tougas is associated with the AMA and that the person who posted this sees him as the exception to all the other AMA people with whom he is not impressed.

I was trying to clarify that other than being a current Leader Member Mr. Tougas does not have any position with the AMA. As far as I know he has never been an AVP or otherwise volunteered within the AMA or served as a club officer or other leadership capacity within the AMA itself or a chartered club. It is my understanding that he applied for Leader Membership status about this time last year. I do not know which category his Leader Membership is (Administrative/Scientific/Industrial).

Does that provide the elucidation that you seek?