( Not aimed at you....gaRCfield )

Because good grief, this is a FORUM where we can make all sorts of innuendos...

Yeah, but Eric is now dealing with issues.

He's most active over at rcdiscuss.com though.

Great post on the batterys and comp of Thunder power vs Turnegy . I am new to eflight been in fuel for years .I entered into eflight because I can now afford eflight with tunregy and could never ever afford it with Thunder Power . I fly in the 70" plus range so my batterys need to be bigger = more expensive .
i am not anti American , I am a simple hobbiest trying to spread my dollar . In the case of Thunder Power there may be a true reason to use them from power , safty and longjevity but after two years , my Turnegy work great and better yet , the dont even drop power after 30 days of being fully charged (as we know not recommended ) but at times I charge , get to the field , weather turns bad , I get home and hit the road for work and leave them charged and they will hold every bit of power .

I wont get into the economics and America , a simple imbalance of any American conversation can be seen on any given day at Walmart . Demographics of a Walmart customer is combined household income of $21,000 , amount of Walmart products from China ?? take a look , outside of consumables over 80% , in seasonal candy for Xmas, Val and Easter probably over 40% , what does this tell you ?
The same guy/girl who is out of work from the American assembly line , is shopping and supporting one of the places that imports more then any other retailer in the USA .
I am not blaming Walmart , Sam was a brilliant man with a true American dream , demand for low price , better value price wars starts with the consumer , we are to blame and nobody else,
For the record , Target is trying to go Anti China , but they still are not pro America just look at there stores, now they are Mexico , Chilli and so on lol , so they can say , no China .

Trust me Nitro has cleaned up there act , you dont have to buy from them its America . I can tell you this , I have now tried Orange Spectrum Receivers for $12 vs $80 , medal gear servos for $9 vs $25 all from China and they all work and work very very well .
So do i need customer servace over in the States not at 60% and above mark up .
Same theory on Thunder Power , are they better , you bet they are but they are not 75% better and they dont last 75% longer .
No offence , just my humble opinion

Innuendo: an oblique allusion : hint, insinuation; especially : a veiled or equivocal reflection on character or reputation

There is no veiled allusion here. Nitroplanes is advertising the motor as a DA motor. Do a Google lookup for a DA motor and the Nitro site comes up. This is NOT a Desert Aircraft motor. Desert Aircraft has asked Nitroplanes to remove any part saying it is a DA motor. Nitroplanes will not remove it.

opjose and gaRCfield, you might just read what is being said before disparaging others comments.

Nitro is using the DA reference, DAs reputation for suberb motors, DA's excellent customer service, to draw people to their website. This is NOT the act of a retailer that I would deal with. BTW do you think it is good too try to draw work away from American workers. Bottom line: AVOID Nitroplanes!!!!!!!!!

LDM: I don't care which receivers you buy since one is a Japanese company and one is a Chinese company and the Japanese product is probably made in China. With DA we are talking about a company that makes the best RC motors in the world, by American workers, in American, and serviced by the best American technicians.

BTW let me make this clear. The only complaint I have right now about Nitroplanes is that they are misrepresenting a Motor as a DA motor which it is not. I think many of the planes it sells are decent value for the money. That is the way I feel about CMP planes, they are good value for the money However, I would never, never recommend a CMP model to a beginning modeler. Many of the items left undone in a CMP plane if not done correctly will end up with a poor flying plane. We have one member at our club that almost exclusively flies CMP planes. He is an excellent builder and an expert flier and can do all the extra work that the CMP plane demands. For myself, I have a few CMP models but because CMP will not do some simple things that would greatly help the build, I doubt I will buy anymore of their products. Yes, CMP is NOT owned by Nitro. At least that is my conclusion after researching as much as I am able.

Craig , I respect your post and I know that DA is an excellant brand that should not be copied . I have issues with Hobby King with a similar problem(as far as ethics ) and that is listing DLE when they know they lost the distribition to Great Planes , yet they still list the engines and will back order them for a lifetime lol .

I am simply stating clarity on facts not ethics on Nitro Planes . I dont think it ethical to use a well known brand name like DA and I am personally concerned on why its not a trademark infrigement enforced by law.
As stated Craig , I am glad you dont care where I buy my receivers , because in good sprit , I dont care if you did have issues with my purchases , its my choice and i need to make sure that I fulfill my obligation to my fellow hobbiest with safty , and then in the order of importance -value .
I just dont see a reason to pay a distribor in the USA for the exact same product at 60% or less , I am not doing this any longer and my hobby value and ability to buy has gone way up .
As far as made in America I am all for it when the hand made products with pride like the DA engines are sold , I am not into gas so unfortunitly at this time I am not in the marker .
I own one gas engine in my CMP Fw190 and that is a Horison product (as we all know imported ) .
I also agree that in no way , shape or form should a new modeler take on a CMP warbird or really any sport plane from CMP .They are not for anyone that expects a turn key plane .
To be honest , this is how the hobby is evolveing in my opinion in the arf segment .
CMP at $249 to 299 was a great value when ESM was controlled by KMP and KMP was selling the 70" span models in the $500 range .
WHen KMP lost the distribution on ESM , the planes dropped from an avg $459 to $299 and $329 ,
In my opinion this made CMP warbirds obsolete because the value is to close in price and the quality of ESM vs CMP is not even close , take this from a guy who owns 5 differant CMP Warbirds .
ESM planes while high quality are still not for the less then experienced builder as they do need tweeks and mods .

Now bottom line and back on subject , Nitro planes as so clearly stated by so many was once the dreaded raidentech . When I see them sign off on a post as raidentech I even ask them that they have ba..... considering the reputation of raidentech . On the other RC website , I was sent a PM asked not to bring up the association of the two and of you google me , you will see the same conversation on rcu about three or 4 years ago , when Nitro swears in an open forum that they are not associted .
IN addition to the three names shown , they were also egrandbuy and at leaste 7 more scattered on ebay .
Now that being stated , i still stick by my original post that Nitro in the eletric forums have become excellant and there sister company Hobby Partz is not excellant but fantastic.
WHen I order from Hobby Partz , I receive countless emails on order , picking , shipping and update , in addition the free shipping as a nobody customer on $50 or more is really nice .
I think that nitro has a younger team in place and has become a very good factor vs the bigger blue chips guys that have the same old same old in product offerings .
IN addition and to the discontent of so many rcblue-bloods , eletric is booming and so is epo formats that deliver on size and light wing loading with incredible turn key fligts out of the box .This trend is so far missed by the big 4 that there marketing departments really need to view and learn the differance between a Fad , a trend and an Evergreen product .
While I get dicount offers dailly on mundane same old same old products , new inovations in epo can not even meet market demand and on launch based on past product performance and low cost

Just curious, do you work for Desert Aircraft?

I think a lot of the NP product descriptions are hilarious. Most of their glow powered models are described as "nitro gas," and there are other things that make me laugh or just shake my head, but I do not get worked up about it.

Actually you are making insinuations right and left without knowing actual facts.

As already mentioned the Chinese advertizing is often copied verbatim on the NP web site, and mistakes are only discovered after the fact.

Innuendo:

You allude to them "advertizing their motor(s) as a DA motor", the plural quickly changed to a singular once it was pointed out that there was only one erroneous ad posted.

If you view the image, you can see they show a DL motor not a DA one so it is very likely that this is nothing more than a mistake.


Innuendo:

You also state that "Desert Aircraft has asked... ".

How was this done?
Were you CC'd on the communication?

Methinks you do not know the former and were not privy to the latter, but are merely repeated forum banter.


I've spotted errors and suggested that they change an ad, and amazingly it was changed within a week or so...

I don't have the authority of Desert Aircraft on their trademark, nor the potential legal cudgel to back such a request, yet it got changed.


Innuendo:

That being the case I question the validity of the innuendo you've made, that they "refuse" or "will not" remove it.

It is more likely that DA merely fired off an e-mail, likely to the wrong person, then mentioned it was not changed, to wit you are stroking a bonfire over this, while attempting to pour gasoline via the forums.

It would have been far more compelling and helpful to post a thread simply telling potential buyers of this now OUT OF STOCK item ( and since it has not been restocked, not likely to reappear ), that the ad is wrong. It is a DL not a DA engine and be done with it.



Everyone would have agreed, and you would be the hero.


BTW: I can show you dozens of similiar examples of mislabeling and even some purposeful rebranding of cheaper brands by the "big boys", which you don't seem upset about.

e.g. How about those new Hitec 4 & 6 port chargers, which are really nothing more than iMax b6's... the latter is sold also as Venom, and other Tower Hobby and Horizon brand names, at at various and sometimes inflated prices.... where is the same misplaced OUTRAGE?

I'd like to discuss this with you.

Another thread?

Did you use the 4 channel, 6 channel or the newest Orange receivers?

What TX are you using?

For me the 4 channel have been absolutely flawless, but I've lost a plane to the 6 channel and a second plane exhibited the same problem with a different 6 channel RX almost causing it to crash.

As a result I'm very cautions of the 6 channel Orange receivers even with the satellite. I'm curious about the 9 channel though.

I'll bet that there is a bug in the microcode of the 6 channel leading to failures and that other revisions may fix this but how can we determine which are affected.


Unlike some I'm not claiming that the Chinese vendors are out to rip me off because I've had two dramatic failures...


I've taken the 4 channel parkflyer Orange RX out to distances that rival say a Spektrum AR7000 w/o any loss of signal or glitching.

Here is an interesting little tidbit. If you do a Google Maps search for Nitroplanes address, in the highlight boxes it lists the following at the address searched:

egrandbuy, Nitroplanes, Raidentech

On the Orange Spectrums I have been lucky with the 6 channel and I have three of them .The reviews on the 9 are really bad !!
I am thinking that there was a bad batch because it seems like so many were happy and then bam, a bad batch .
Feel free to pm me but my results are all on the 6 channel .

As far as location and name , yep , all the same and I know at one time they were differant , I think they combined to one location but they have always been related as one company (differant family members )

TX -forgot to tell you , I use a spectrum Transmitter 7 channel

What a bunch of .................

I live in Tucson. I buy DA engines. I buy props from DA. The last time I was in there I talked with them about Nitro's ad.

I was told directly by a DA rep that they have asked a number of times that Nitro please remove this.

So opjose here is your quote; "Actually you are making insinuations right and left without knowing actual facts."

So I do know the facts and stick to them. You do not when you make up lies about me. Until your posts this was a decent discussion.

Second, Desert Aircraft has very competent people who know how to contact people in an organization and if they state they have contacted them several times I believe them.

Do you work for Nitro?

So by your OWN words that is second hand information. You do not know how or when this was done, and worst still you don't actually know if they contacted the right people. You are making assumptions.

So far nothing I've posted is inaccurate, and you've confirmed such by your own admission.

Lies? Where?

If anything your post contains more innuendos, even about me.

So you are making an ASSUMPTION that they have "competent" people who know exactly who to contact. You don't know that for a fact, nor who they contacted, etc. It's all second hand.


Strangely one e-mail fired off by myself, resulted in web site changes.

As I've stated, I do not have the DA name behind any such request that I've made.
I don't have the potential legal cudgel of implying a copyright violation, etc.

And yet a change was made quickly.

Something is wrong with what you are stating, and since I've seen results, I question the validity of the assertions you've made.

Is that a "lie", no? It's a obvious FACT.

I ASSERT you are wrong, and that is a FACT.



Ah yet another "innuendo"...

Do you work for DA that you seem to feel the need to respond so emotionally on one small item?

Do friends of yours work there?


You could have come here and ASKED how I asked Nitro to make a change after I told you about what I did.

I would have been happy to share it with you if you asked in a normal and ration manner.

That is what a truely concerned person might do.


No, it seems that your intent was to create forum "outrage" because you felt that it is warranted.

Playing "chicken little", only acts to undermine your story.


The funny thing is I agree with you that it SHOULD be changed and buyers warned not to assume that it is a DA engine.

I choose however not to throw molotov cocktails, as a means to get things done.

Don't be an arsonist when you could be the "hero".

You do this every time you go into a thread. Hijack the thread and decry the veracity of the posters.

Crazy when you don't understand the difference between rebadging and pretending to be another product. LOL of course my info from DA is second hand. It would be first hand only if I worked there and made the request. The help Desert Aircraft have provided me has been superior to any other RC manufacturer that I have dealt with. Yes, indeed the folks at Desert Aircraft are competent. Crackers, to not realize that since I shop at Desert Aircraft that I am friends with them. Desert Aircraft has very nice and friendly people working there.

Based on the above and your inability to recognize that Nitro is purposefully doing this versus some one spotting a website mistake and that you think a question labels you. Laughable.

Ridiculous, that you want to hijack the thread just like you always do. Opjose now ignored.

Nitro should not be advertising a product as from DA when it is not from Desert Aircraft.

Issues and concerns of others are their own and they are entitled to them.

I bought one of those engines from Nitro Planes, at no point did I think that it was a Desert Aircraft.

It runs great, it's in a Chinese 50cc Extra 260 89" wing span, 13 pound airplane,  flies great,  so what?

Well trying to add some value ( I hope lol ) in my post .One thing cool about Hobby King vs nitro is that they are slow to manage there reviews under the product. So when they sell something , the first 20 or 30 post are open for all to see .
When they switched from DLE engines to rcg , the reviews were brutal and open , now its difficult to find them.
The one concern I have over engines and you only know this from experience is that accuracy in the machine work is 100% critical to its operation and performance.
When I started in the hobby I bought magnum engines because I was told that they person who started the company was an x os person . Magnum is a great price vs OS . So anyway I struggled my way thru learning to tweek and deal with magnums . One day I tried an OS , well right out of the box , the machine work was flawless vs Magnum and what the motor heads would refer to as "tolerance" .
Well between Saito , OS ect I learned there is a differance and its not just in cost and brand name but in the manufacturig tolerance .yes many will say big deal , I love magnum ect , well its the numbers game and the % that get the good ones vs the guys % of guys dealing with flawless OS engines .
I would have to say the same thing with DA , I have never anything less then preimum when hearing this brand named , so I can assume that the manufacturing tolerance is very very good vs knock offs . so with that I can see why they are concerned that there name is potentially being harmed .

I would also say they need to stop the DA associatiion with there brand and always try to use there full name on everything they make .
trust me , I have lived this first hand lol .
We were selling a USA made candy into mexico , it was a simple 1" egg shaped candy with santa foils . We were copied and the qulaity of the Mexico made product was horrible .
We had to add our brand name printed name on santa beard !!! yep in full !!!

LDM, I like OS but it always seemed that my Saito engines were the most reliable. YS has great power but I need to fly them regularly. I think the gaskets stay damp. Not sure why. But love the power. Right now in that size range the Saito 125 is brilliant. 10 oz less weight than the Saito 120 with much more power.

I guess my love affair with DA started when a guy at our field was starting 3W engines. He was sponsored by 3W. Every time he came out he was messing with the 3Ws trying to get them to run correctly. Then the guys with the DAs would come out. Start the motor and be off. This would happen time and again with other people and competitors for the shoot out. Most who were running DA engines.

We get a number of people at our field that practice for the Shoot Out. DA contributes engines, money, etc. to make the event happen. Times are tough and they were not able to support a Shoot Out last year.

To all the supporters of Chinese engines, including DL, ask them (DL, nitro, etc. to give the kind of support that DA gives to our hobby.

So I admit to really liking the engines and the people. BTW I did buy a DL-50 before getting to know about DA. I found the machining/specs to be loose. The casting was porous. The ring landing was way over sized. The DA-50 would pull greater RPM in the same plane. But I can see how the price is tough. A friend bought a used DA-50 and now has over 500 flights on his goldenskiesrc.com Extra 300 so for reliability and support the price seems reasonable but I can see the attraction of DL.

I only decry inaccuracies or outright maliciously speculative inflammatory items. as those posted in this thread about which business is which ( to wit I correctly pointed things out... )


All the more reason to have ASKED how to get things changed, instead of purposely trying to raise a stink FIRST about something you perceived to be egregious.


Re: Laughable

As the saying goes... "Parva leves capiunt animas."


You say this was "purposely" done, but you really don't know that for a fact... that's merely an ASSUMPTION on your part.

Neither of us can speak to the actual intent one way or the other. Strangely you purport to know better...


True, but if you wanted to change this or inform everyone, why handle it sophmorically?

You did NOT buy one of these engines in the first place after all.

I think a better approach to this entire thread would have been "buyers beware" Nitro is sellling engines marked as DA , that are not DA . Less drama , more facts .
As far as servace on Chinese engines I am sorry but I have to laught, when you buy a product from the big distributors in the USA that make nothing and import everything , your customer servace is in your price in the way of 5 times the markup. So , in some case when a product is not made by craftsman like DA , and a product is simply imported as is the case in all big 5 USA distributors, I see great customer servace in the price , so noting is free .
Case in point , eflight retracts for $89 , same ones direct $14.00 for set , I will buy multiple ones at that price and take my chances on servace

I'm not really sure why anyone would brag and defend or support a bottom of the barrel line of products.
Does anyone remember what foreign plane company stole cad files of a very well built, American designed 69" Yak? Now, does anyone remember who closed their American aircraft company shortly after the 69" plane was being built and imported as an exact duplicate? Even the instructions were identical.

Can you say, "Buy cheap and support those $5000 a year Chinese jobs." Of course when you have no job it doesn't matter how cheap it is.

BTW the DL-50 was an exact copy of the DA-50. Spare parts fit. So to hell with copyright we don't need no stinkin jobs, just refi the house. Oops that scam is over.

Nitro stop trying to use DA's reputation to sell your stuff.

Of course that overlooks the fact that except for companies like DA and Syssa, everything you buy is Asian made ANYWAY.

Even with what few companies do manufacture here, they outsource some of the fabrication, circuit boards and components.


That said, I'd rather spend an extra $100.00 on a DA or Syssa engine, as I have done on occasion.

The problem is when the markup is far too high, then I'll take LDM's approach.... though I do not recommend it for newbies.


skubacb: STOP TRYING TO MAKE A USELESS TEMPTEST IN A FORUM, IT's POINTLESS. If you are truely interested in doing something about an engine that is NOT being sold, inform the people who CAN make the change instead, scream at them.

As Americans we are free to Boycott and encourage others to join our boycott,, that's all skubacb is doing,, You can choose to join him or not..Him posting his protests here on RCU isn't pointless, it's a good a place as any.

One thing is to protest...

It is an altogether different thing is to post misleading info.

This thread should have been started in "Nitroplanes Support" forum.