LuftwaffeOberst

Nitroplanes, Giant Scale Planes... what ever they call themselves. I have nothing good to say about them so I'll stop at that.

China is lacking major Quality Control at the factories. I've spent thousands buying ARF's that I had to butcher just to make it look and fly good, and some I just busted them under my feet and took the loss.

I built one Great Planes Gee Bee and that was a nighmare... kind of afraid of Great Planes now, even though it was just a bad kit. I lost quite a bit of money on that project.

Horizon seems to be good going up the channels when there is a problem. My Hanger 9 Fokker DVII the Cowel just didn't fit. I returned it 2 times and they kept replacing it until it finally fit, and it didn't cost me a dime. [sm=thumbs_up.gif] to Horizon and Hanger 9.

Because of lack of good quality of some of these ARF's, I've decided to start building full kits. I took classes at my LHS on how to cover and I am ready. I want to be the master of my quality if China won't do it.

Plus I really don't like giving my money to a country that doesn't like Americans that much, I do have that in the back of my mind. What to do? Hardly any American, German and British ARF's out there that can compete with the prices. It's sad... really sad. JMHO and JMHPE



Luftwaffe Oberst
AMA District II
Radio Aero Modelers Club
Pulaski, NY


Supporter of RedNeck R/C- Fulton, NY

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

I think the general attitude is that they are getting better. Not perfect, but better. My first ARF was a Royal trainer about 19 years ago and todays worst is better than that was. Figure what $110 was back in 1989 or so and compare that to todays market. When the wings were joined, one leading edge was 1/4 inch in front of the other.

I also think that todays flyer tends to grossly overpower everything. I am not attacking nor accusing people whose planes fall apart in the air. There are some poor quality ships out there, but some of my biggest frustrations have come from some of the high dollar companies. Nuff said. Somebody else can have the soap box now.

LuftwaffeOberst

Exactly, I agree with your opinion 100%. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

I only have 5 years building ARF's, I guess I have it stuck in my head that ARF ment Almost Ready to Fly... not correcting factory defects. Plus I noticed that they never leave enough overhang on the covering. I measured 2-3 mm on the overhang... not much for the Mono or Ultra to grab. I get nervous trying to get the wrinkles out for fear the covering will pull away. It seems that the factories don't seem to pull on the covering enough when they cover... they always seem to cut it way to short.


Luftwaffe Oberst
AMA District II
Radio Aero Modelers Club
Pulaski, NY


Supporter of RedNeck R/C- Fulton, NY

qldviking

My 1st trainer many yrs ago was a hangar9 cessna and I ran a Tigershark46 on it for 2 1/2 years. the trainer went together very well, survived my 2 left dyslexic thumbs and went on to teach another rc'er to fly. In the time I had it, I hung it in a tree twice, had some very hairy arrivals, put floats on it and tried to drown it, but it stood up to it all very well with just some patches on the wings. I know the last 2 ARF's I got will NOT stand up to any of that. I recently got it back, and apart from the covering was worse for wear it was still in one piece, so I recovered it and I gave to a young kid to learn on, and he is having a ball with it. If that trainer could talk it could some stories lol. These days tho I wont consider an ARF at all, and will either buy a kit or plans and scratch build. as has been said before here, why pay the chinese when they dont like us, and the products are inferior and at times dangerous. I also get a lot of enjoyment building a plane and enjoy flying my creation a lot more knowing its been build right.

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

gldviking

Man, I have to talk to you. The minute I saw the word floats I zoomed in. I love float flying, I drive 80 miles round trip every Tuesday just to fly on water.

I only comment on planes I fly and the U-Can-Do .46 size is an excellent ARF. I flew a Goldberg Cub and after while it was too tame for me. I took the floats and put them on my U-Can-Do for float flying. These floats weigh about 2 pounds and I have a fantastic flyer with an O.S. .91 pumper on it. Inverted flat spins, elevators and wing tip spins are done with ease. I have been flying this plane for three years, and have stressed it many times, especially with the elevator manuever. I land it in a high wind with spoilerons, and this plane lands at a walk. I bought a backup and haven't needed it. (yet) C.G. 5-1/2 inches.
I will try to upload a picture. Regards, FRED

qldviking

Hi Fred
Nice looking plane there, I have a 55' span ultimate with a YS140 on it I am going to put floats, amoing the planes under construction I have a 108" catalina and a 140" DC3 which I will also put on floats. Just came to mind, in one of the YS threads theres a vid clip of a U-can-do on floats too, very interesting. If u have msn or yahoo with voice I will be happy to talk to you, I am online a lot so should be ablew to hook up sometime. if you're interested pm me

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

I don't have either voice, but I sure like the idea of those planes on floats. I don't plan to have any other planes on floats after the U-Can and Piper Cub. It is easy to take to the lake as it is not large.
If I lived closer to a good lake I would have more.

There is something in this hobby for everyone isn't there?

Kinda off topic, sorry guys. Not all ARFs are junk. Talk around. I have a Dave Patrick Ultimate bipe ARF that is exceptional. The Horizon Hobby Twist is another good plane I like, and fly one regulary for 3D. When they found it was popular, they jumped the price from 99 USD to 120 USD. Now they can stick it. The Horizon Hobby Ultra Sticks are well built and a pleasure to fly and land in the 'crow' mode.
ParkZone has the Stryker plug and fly that I have seen fly. It is a screamer and the guys love it. Parkzone also sells it just the basic unit without the transmitter. Primarily 3D flyers that I know are happy with the profile model kits supplied by Morris Hobbies and also the OMP ARF offerings.
World Models has the Intruder ARF which I bought and fly. Sorta pattern.
I have a couple of professionally built pattern planes that I bought used when I competed in pattern, but I think I am about finished building. I have too many planes.

Have a nice day.

Regards, FRED

barrelracer

My Feedback: (99)

It has been my experiance that a POS is in the eye of the beholder.It all depends on what you expect from a ARF.Some guys what a 100.00 120 size ARF to come with top grade hard ware directions a blind man could figure out and fly hands off the first time it is in the air.But guess what it is not going to happen,know this on any plane or helo etc etc you buy as an ARF,you are going to have to put some work into it to make it right and move on.I have flown Flite Craft and Lanier plastic bricks and put the biggest engine I could stuff in it and the cheepest radio gear that could do the job and fly the crap out of it and when it plows in salvage what you can and s-t can the rest.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I agree 100% , this is some of my POS pics , I bought them for what i thougt I could do with them , not as they appeared .They also were bought cheap with the exception of the H9 corsiar , (good plane in both expected quality and delivered quality) the rest were bought cheap , painted , split flaps added , counter balances added and in some cases top flight parts added , all at a budget price .
The p40 cost me $95 with $25 shipping , 65" span , great little plane

qldviking

thats a valid re:- quality versus price, but I recently bought $600 Edge ARF 1.20 size and I took it str8 back when I opened the box. the cvovering was not only wrinkly and bubbly, but actually coming of all over. the wings were floppy, and the elevators were missing completely. the canopy was crazed and hazy, and the cowl didnt even fit, was 1/2 inch too small across. That was the last straw as far as ARF's are concerned. NEVER EVER again. I am still having a dispute with the retailer, he says its not his fault, which is true enough, but he sells dodgy kits he gotta expect them to return. and he should take it up with the manufacturer. I wont mention who the kit was from, but sadly its a highly recommended brand oin here

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

agree again , its price vs benifit to risk , just bought a very high end Warbird , while I am very happy , still comparing it to my CMPs and trying to see why there is a $300 or so differance ?

The Toolman

World Models seems to be one of the better built ones I have seen, an I have a few from about all of the manuf's. My little .40 size la racer from WM has took more beatings over the years than anything else I have an it still flys as good as new. Sig planes are nice also, but not the quality they used to be years ago.

qldviking

the difference these days is negligable, most if not all are made in china, and quality control doesnt exist any more. nowadays u want a quality plane you can trust not to blow apart in the air you gotta buy a kit or scratch build yourself [&:]

The Toolman

Believe me, the WM planes are a lot better than most of the china planes an they are made in china also. The club 40 pylon guys almost all use the WM skyraider mach II because it is built well an stays together longer than the others. Besides they are only $69 (now $89)

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I just started flying planes this summer, and have assembled 5 ARFs so far: Hobbico Nexstar, Phoenix Dolphin, Phoenix Decathlon, Great Planes Venus II, and Great Planes Venus 40. I have nothing bad to say about any of these planes or manufacturers - the directions were all understandable, hardware more than adequate, and believe it or not, the worst two covering jobs came from Great Planes - lots of wrinkles that just wouldn't come out - but I'm not complaining, really!

A big benefit to these guys is that you can get replacement parts (quickly) and great customer service.

In my limited experience I don't think you can go wrong with any of the above manufacturers, though of course there are many, many more good ones out there, and even the best guys have their worst days.

bhady

What few ARF'sI've put together and flown, (Sig LT40, Great Planes Easy Sport, and Tower Kaos 40) I've had no complaints on. All went together easily and flew great. I'm on my third Kaos and plan to always have a Kaos around just for fun. The only complaint is that the covering material on the Kaos tends to come loose after a couple of years.

bhady

ckangaroo70

My Feedback: (51)

Well the intended purpose of this thread is not to just beat up on ARF's or compare ARF's to kits or kits to ARF's. The reason I started this thread a few years back was so folks could just post what particular ARF they had lots of trouble with so other flyers might have a heads up or know to keep there eyes open for a possible problem if they buy a certain ARF. The mods would have shut this one down a long time ago if its intended purpose was just to beat up on ARF's. There are a million threads about great ARF's. This thread is for those lemons you bought. Of course it should go without saying that sometimes what constitutes a lemon is subjective, but it still don't hurt to have a thread like this so a guy researching a particular Plane can say "Hey... that guy on RCU said that the Plane he bought had a bunch of hot glue in it. If I buy that Plane I better double check the glue joints." or "Hey... that guy on RCU said his Plane came with a badly warped wing, packaged terrible, with terrible instructions and it flew as bad as it looked. Maybe I will stay clear of that one!" As I said, we can find 10,000 threads talking about how great the 4 stars are, or the Ultra Sports, or LT-40's, or just about any Bridi Plane, etc etc. What people visiting this thread want to know is what ARF's have you owned that others should avoid at all cost and why?

qldviking

fair enough, but to what I am seeing these at the clubs and people I help with their kits I am mot impressed to say the least. While most kits look pretty in the box, its when you go the assemble them that you find a lot of nasty's. For instance, the last seagull kit I assisted in I junked all the control rods and linkages. It was a 60 size kit and the pushrods supplied were smaller than 2-56, and unsupported with the usuall flimsy linkages and horns. The covering wouldnt tighten up again with either iron or heatgun, and we put near a bottle of ca into the everywhere we could reach after finding as loose former just behind the wing mount area. the supplied engine mounts weren't even square, the motor wobbled quite nicely when sat on them.

Yes there are some good kits out there, but when you live in the country 500+ miles from a decent hobby shop, and try to buy online or over the phone its a lottery as to what you get at best, and unfortunately Australia is flooded with cheap chinese %^&&*. My advice to anyone looking for a good ARF is to buy a name brand like hangar9, WM, EF etc. Unfortunately here they are very expensive and you usually have to order them in and that takes up to 3 months+ I cancelled my order for an Extreme Flight Yak after 4 months waiting, and the price they wanted was $1695 while it was selling in the US for about $600. I guess you can see why I scratch build these days

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

It really is subjective, but even being subjective there are always folks who do (or don't) look at it as you do. For instance, I've been building a Seagull Edge 540, about a Saito-100 size. I remember the linkage being substandard, but then I never expected to use it. I went to the hobby store and bought new Sullivan and Goldberg and DuBro hardware and gas tanks and whatever suited me. I always run a knife along the edge of the fuse bottom and peel it from nose to tailfeathers so that the bottom is open, and I have a field day with my CA glue and whatever else. I replace the bottom with that cool checkerboard covering they sell now when I'm all done installing my radio gear and what-not. Super good price and the plane is really sleek and pretty, and I've saved myself many weeks of building. It allowed me to spend extra time getting that cowl custom-fitted around the Saito 100 heads and muffler and not feel pressured. I'm really going to enjoy the looks of this plane, and time will tell on the flying, but that has gotten good reviews so far. I'll try to post a photo or maybe two here.

Jim

qldviking

TexasSkyPilot
yes you are right in its all subjective, But when you buy an ARF you should not have to open up the whole plane to glue it properly together, nor take all the supplied h'ware etc and bin it. I mean in the long run it would little more for them to do it right and supply the proper hardware. By the time we replaced all the bits that weren't up to scratch we spend about another $100+, partys here are dearer than in the US. good luck with your baby
cheers Johnno

PacificNWSkyPilot

My Feedback: (19)

True, I was up pretty close to a hundred extra, so that plane cost me $280.00 with hardware. A Wild Hare, which comes with better building and real hardware from the same names, costs about 600 or 700 dollars. Just like tools from Skil or Craftsman on up to Snap-on and those high-ends, there are levels of quality an pricing. Why is it such an issue when ARFs come in various prices and levels of building quality? I rather enjoyed the savings by doing a little extra myself, while at the same time not having to do the whole frame-up and covering job. I could have bought an Aeroworks or a dozen others in the higher price range but I saved some money and still ended up with good quality and good hardware and a plane I know will fly great in the end. And I bought it all from my local R/C store.

Jim

qldviking

I know what you mean re:- quality. unlike you one job I detest is covering, so If I have to strip covering to ensure a plane is sound, then I would rather build the plane from a kit or scratch build it. I am quite happy to pay for quality, but the last expensive kit I bought had more problems than ever. It was a total strip down and reinforce and reglue, even the wings had the webs with the grain goin the wrong way and a number of the were missing, not good in a 72inch katana huh? I ended up putting 60$ worth carbon fibre in the wings to help stiffen them up and strengthen them. ther undercarriage mounting blocks I could pull of using just my fingers, just a fer drops hot melt holding them in. This kit was the most expensive of the size range I was looking for and I might just as well have bought the cheapest piece of &&*^*, the result would have been the same. [:@][&:][:'(]

chogg

My Feedback: (1)

ruh roh, I 've got 3 of the forty size Me 109 s from model tech.

ckangaroo70

My Feedback: (51)

Looking back over this thread that has been up since 2004 it has made me think about some of the new ARFs that showed up at the flying field this year and last and how it seems that the quality of ARFs are getting quite better with every passing year. There is some really nice stuff out there on the market today and I am racking my brain trying to think if there was any ARFs that came to the field this year that anyone seemed unhappy with, ? Right now I just can't think of any off the top of my head. I remember not to many years ago folks would bring something out on a regular basis that was poorly built or flew terrible, but it really does seem like the quality has really gotten better among most manufacturers. I would like to think that threads like this one on RCU with input from from folks who have purchased many various type planes from various manufacturers over the years....has in some small way encouraged manufacturers to try and raise the bar for quality every year until eventually we can find very few planes that can be added to the AVOID AT ALL COST thread. Thanks to all those who posted to this thread over the years and more importanly managed to keep it a good civil discussion. [8D]

Woody218

My Feedback: (24)

I agree with you 100%, Jim, I also scrap the supplied hardware and use my own. As far as bad arfs, the Sig Somethin' Extra I had was a complete POS. The covering was horrible, I could not get the wrinkles in the wing bays to tighten up, the rear of the fuselage was twisted over 1/4" to the left. I sent Sig an email outlining all the problems I found, their response was that it was all my fault, I should find someone who knows what they're doing to help me, etc., etc. It pissed me off to the point that I will never buy another Sig product as long as I live!