Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Well, shes ready to go. I plan to maiden on Saturday morning if the weather is decent.

The balance point is kinda weird. It's 6.5" out from the centerline of the fuse and between 3.25 and 3.75" back from the leading edge at that point. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Typical China ARF--they give it to ya in millimeters. I had to use a converter on the internet to get it back to inches.

Anyhow, I'm just barely balanced at 3.5" back. It's probably closer to 3.7" back to make the plane balance perfectly level. Thats at the farthest back point recommended in the manual. Makes me nervous. I don't usually fly them that far back untill I get real comfortable. I usually start off at the front of the recommended CG and work back after 10 or 20 flights when I get confortable with a plane. This should be interesting with such an aft CG on the maiden.

Not much I can do. I took the 1.75" foam wheels and wheelpants off and put DuBro 3" rubber wheels on it to gain some noseweight. I also put a plastic spinner on it. My tank is all the way back in front of the servo tray, so the motorbox is empty inside where you would normally put the tank. I might shove a 1000mah 6V MH battery up there inside the motorbox and glue a piece of balsa behind it to keep it set. That should be enough nose weight to fly safely and very stable. I could move that battery back slowly for the first 15 flights and finally just take it out when I'm comfortable with the plane. Probably not a bad idea.

Needless to say, I didn't put a pilot or instrument panel in the plane. I just couldn't afford anymore tail weight behind the CG. Too bad. It's such a pretty airplane. I think it would look pretty cool with a pilot in the back and passenger up front.

Wish me luck. I'm gona need it. [sm=tongue_smile.gif]

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

It flies!!

I was really worried about the aft CG, but it seams to fly a bit nose heavy still, so I'll be moving it back a little. I'm gonna take the big 3" rubber wheels off and put the little foamies and wheelpants back on it.

I did a few tests to see how the balance was. First off--it took 2 clicks of elevator to keep it from diving. A sure sign of nose heavy. Then I came in flat and level and pulled to a 45* upline. Roll inverted and see what happens. It dropped the nose pretty quick. Yup--it's nose heavy.

I'm having a problem with my Cline regulator. I had to mount the regulator right up front near the carb nipple. Thats how your supposed to mount it. But, this engine is so big for the plane, ity's a tight fit in the cowl, so I had to cut a hole in the TOP of thew cowl right up front to let my Cline stick out a bit. There is a hole in the metal cover. Thats to let the diaphram "see" regular air pressure. It works just like a Walbro carb. The back side of that diaphram needs to see atmospheric pressure in order to make the diaphram work correctly. I'm getting positive air pressure in the hole and that makes the engine go rich. [] If that little hole sees positive pressure, the engine runs rich. If the hole experiences a vacuum, then the engine will run lean. Mine is running stupid rich in the air, so it's getting pressure in the hole.

Simple fix. I'll do like all the DA guys are doing and solder a little pressure nipple or a piece of brass fuel tubing in the hole. Then put a piece of fuel tubing on the nipple and run it back inside the fuse to "dead" air. As long as that diaphram just sees regular atmospheric pressure, it will work perfectly.

Funny thing, I've never had this problem with any of my gassers. Then I go a build a simple glow plane and install a Cline regulator-- now I got pressure problems on the diaphram. [sm=tongue_smile.gif] I think it's funny as all get-out.

I'll have it fixed in 20 minutes. Right after I glue the landing gear plate back in. [:@] 2nd flight--engine went rich and deadsticked. I slammed it down on the runway and took the gear plate out. DOH!!

I really like the plane though. It flies crisp and true. It will climb like nuts in a knife edge if I use all the rudder, so knife edge loops may be possible. It has almost ZERO elevator coupling in knife edge. I just had to barely touch the elevator stick to keep it tracking straight. Snaps are clean and it stops rotating as soon as I turn loose of the sticks. It stalls very slow and just mushes and then drops the nose. It's not violent at all. I have enough power to hover with the TH .75 running rich, so once I fix the regulator pressure thingy--she should be plenty powerfull for hovering and torqueing. Landings are easy. It comes down nice and easy. Not your stereotypical Giles 202 snap monster. I just got a little nervous on my deadstick and brought it in too fast.

I'll fix the balance, gear plate and pressure thingy tonight and come back tomorrow with another flight report. So far, I like it. I like it a lot!!

eicasrc

RCpilet, thanks for all the pointers.
Mine flew last friday, and I have to agree with you, is a nice flying model.
I did follow friends recommendartions and replaced the metal bolts for the gears and the wings. I used 1/4 20 bolts and replaced the blind nuts. Course, taking the nuts out fron the gear, some of the original ply came off so I reinforced the landing gear plate internally with a 1/4 ply. My second landing was a little off and the wheel got cought in the grass and sheered the plastic bolts right off on one of the gears. I know it works the way it was intended, replaced the bolts and it was off flying again.
I had the same CG problem, altough my tank is where they suggested. It takes two clicks nose up elevator, and the nose dives when inverted. My CG was at about the mid point they recommend with an once of weight added to the wall where the wing guides go in. Today I removed the lead weights and still had two clicks of nose up and the tendency to dive when inverted. If I move the CG any further back, I would have to add a lot of weight to the tail. I think the engine has a lot to do with the CG, so asking your exact point will not matter in my case. I guess I will keep on playing untill I get it just right.
My engine (OS .61 FS older model) is running abit on the high end at iddle, so the aproach is a bit fast. I will have no choice but to put an onboard glow to even the low iddle and hope that solves the problem.
Good luck in the subsequent flights.

airplanecrazy

hey good to hear that your flights went well eicasrc...ive been seeing that some people have had some enigne problems...i know that the O.S. 61 FX is very big on price...but i have had no problems...tuning is perfect..runs clean, great idle, and easy start..it has performed beautifully with my giles and she fly's like a bat outa hell...

eicasrc

I had this FS seating at home for years and did not want to spend the extra money having one engine at home. It is the older model of this OS 4c. I have twicked it (iddle air screw) to the best that is going to get. So I plan to reduce the prop from a 13-6 to 13-4. It feels as if the prop is taking too much at the low end and it shuts off if iddled too low. That, or installing an onboard glow. It runs ok untill I disconnect the external glow starter, then it drops considerably. I will post to what worked.

Thanks for the feed.

airplanecrazy

I have a saito 100 lying around from a previous SNAFU...and im really tempted to see how my giles would perform with it...

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I've removed the big ruber tires and put the factory foam wheels and wheelpants back on. My plane is balanced at about 4" back right now. I think that is going to make it almost perfectly neutral. I was at 3.75" on the maiden flights and it was still nose heavy.

Easy way to tell it was nose heavy:
Took 2 clicks of elevator to keep it from diving. Thats a sign of nose heavy.

Come in about 1/2 throttle--flat and level right across the runway. Pull back and climb at a 45* angle. Full power. Roll it inverted. Let go of the sticks and it should stay on that 45* upline for quite awhile. It's inverted on a 45* upline. If it drops the nose, it's nose heavy. If it drops the tail and goes vertical--it's tail heavy. If it stays put on a 45* upline for a few hundred feet--it's pretty close.

Mine is dropping the nose immediately. It's nose heavy.

That was at 3.75" back. When I took the big rubber wheels off and put my foam tires on with the wheelpants, my balance shifted back to 4". I'm going to try it like that next weekend.

I went out this past Sunday, but it was terribly windy and getting cold. We've got a weather system moving in from the west. It's supposed to be cold and snowing all week. Maybe next weekend I'll get a chance to try her again. I'm pretty sure I have the Cline fixed to run perfect now. With the engine running right and the balance back a bit more--I'm very excited to fly it. I think this is gonna be one of my favorite planes for a long time to come.

I just love a Giles 202. It's one of my favorite airframes to fly and this one is not letting me down so far.

Macs

Great postings here , makes very interesting reading and very useful data for anybody else like myself that’s putting one of these kites together.
Although it been going fairly slow for me but I’m getting there one step at a time I’ve not put a lot of ARTF’s together and the instruction ‘s are not the most informative, I’m having so fun much getting the elevator Y’ push rod bent just right to fit the slots in the fus.

Might be an idea for anybody else to try to do this first before gluing the stab.
Thing I might try spraying my canopy, maybe a blue or green tint? [:-]

eicasrc

Macs, I managed to get the right shape bend to be able to fit it close enough to the slots and then pulled through with two bent rods (like hooks). I also read that you can modify the design and do two separate rods and do away with the includded hardware. My way worked just fine. You may want before gluing the rods, to make the bends and set it on top of the fuselage to get an aproximation to the right shape. I believe you be able to get it that way. Good luck and ask away and I can suggest some modifications that I picked up right from here and worked very well.

HM

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I just put a Hitec HS-225 on each side of the fuse and ran a seperate linkage rod to each elevator. Mixed it with my radio. I can get 45 degrees deflection EASILY on my elevators.

I threw that CF pushrod and the metal pushrods in the trash after screwing with it for about 1/2 hour. [:@]

I did install the rudder servo in the fuse and used the pull/pull hardware. You want to keep your pull/pull cables from rubbing on each other. Easy way to do this:

Glue a thin piece of plywood on one of the servo mounts. This will elevate one side of the servo up and that keeps the cables from touching. Notice how the right wire will go over the top of the left wire. This tiny angle on the servo mount will keep the cables from touching.

Crude Paint image in JPEG format attached:

eicasrc

Did the servos for the elevator vahe a gig effect on the CG, being mounted so far in the back and all? I know mine is balanced just right with the original palcements of the servos in the fuselage.
My original instalation of the supplied hardware for the elevator worked ok. I just experimented bending the rods and placing them over the fuselage to get aproximate bending angles. The push pull rudder arangement was done using rod guide conduit so it wouls not bind against the frame. It is working ok for me so far.
Keep the comments coming, it will help everyone building on of these fine built Giles.

HM

mike gruenwald

concerning balance point, there are FAR more factors in determining "correct c.g." than anything I've read here. These methods wil tell you if you are off by a mile, but that is about it. p.m. me if you would like me to give more details about finding the "sweet spot"

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

Why not just post your knowledge in public for all to see Mike?

Funny you would criticise the methods posted here for finding correct CG. The guys from Aeroworks came out to a club meeting a few years back and handed out a pamphlet. My method of rolling inverted on a 45* upline was one of the ways the guys at AW described for finding correct CG. I learned that method from them and it works great.

mike gruenwald

I'm sure the guys from aeroworks went in to the meeting knowing that they would be able to help out the BASIC sport flyer with some BASIC trimming methods. Sounds to me like that is exactly what they did. Like I said, if anyone wants my help contact me. I don't have time to post thousands of responses to every thread out there. I've been flying since 1984 and competed from 1988 to 1993 flying pattern with 44 first place finishes out of 47 starts beginning in sportsman and ending in masters. The methods for trimming I use I either figured out on my own as a kid or were taught by guys that have forgotten more about building, flying and trimming than most fliers today will ever know. People like Don Atwood and 1987 ama masters pattern champion Jim Eide. If you're happy with your method, I'm happy for you, I'm just saying that when you really need an airplane to perform in many different facets of flight, that BASIC method of finding the c.g. is okay, but there are alot of other factors that weigh in which will require more adjustment. When you do more than fly around in circles and do inside loops your set up requires more trimming; at least if you want to do well against the competition.

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

EWWWWWWWWWW crudentials!! Big deal.

Wrong. It was a meeting specifically designed to help out the IMAC guys when the members of the Arvada club first got interested in big gas and IMAC back in 2000--2001. They tailored the presentation specifically to the IMAC style and type of planes. You obviously didn't attend the meeting.

This is an ARF forum and we're talking about a 60 size glow plane. I doubt any of the guys reading this thread plan to do much more than sport flying with the plane. It's a $99 ARF. Not a contest plane. It's designed for sport flying for the average guy. Not unlimited IMAC or the Tuscon Shootout.

Why not just share your "wisdom" once for everyone to read out here in the open? You certainly had the time to post and tell us what a great pilot you are. What, no time to share the knowledge that you supposedly possess? You'd rather spend your time criticising someone else and bragging about yourself than actually post something USEFUL in relation to the thread and plane being discussed.

Do you evern have this particualr plane? Didn't think so.

You basically have no credentials if your not willing to actually post something usefull and beneficial to the modeling community. All you've done so far is spend your time criticising someone elses technique and bragging about how good you are.

mike gruenwald

I recall a old proverb that states " a man who stays silent gives no indication of whether or not he is an expert or fool, the man who speaks, shows his expertise or foolishness for all to see"

airplanecrazy

hey come on you guys..its not like finding the C.G. is rocket science...but i do have to admit that you sounded a little cocky Mike..the simple fact is that we are all here to learn new tips that help us and then have a good time at the field..I have used some of RCpilets techniques and they seem to work pretty well. Mike can you share some of your tips? considering that all 3 of your other threads had nothing to do with the subject...

btw..i dont know if its just version 2..but I found a weight hiding up under the front of the fuselage..I was wondering why I was at tad nose heavy..

eicasrc

Hey airplanecarzy, that weight you found came from factory?

HM

airplanecrazy

yeah it was..that little ******* was hiding on the top near the motor mount[>:] be careful though taking it off..they epoxied the heck out of it

eicasrc

Thanks for the info, I wil check mine.

matt13

Hello again guy's. It's been a while since the post has been started and I still have not done any more to mine than fit the wing to to fueslarge. I have had a house move since and my new shed has still got everything just piled into it in no order yet, while I wait for power to be put on and a guy who is going to put insulation in and line it etc. So I now feel the need to open the box and get it flying to take the edge of the last couple of months[&:]. My question /questions to those of you who have now been flying theirs for some time is :- how well has the covering held up on the version 2 kits? is it the same as the early ones with the covering ripping? and how good is the engine mount supplied in the kit, I have a new OS50sx to go in mine. Matt[8D]

airplanecrazy

[:-]matt13..The Version 2 has solved the covering situtation due to lots of complaints and more..they have put some sort of clear coat over the model which gives it a strong and shiny surface. In addition, it is very easy to clean and durable...I have had my model since august, and well over 200 flights...and still no problems (excluding the occasional scuff due to a bumpy landing [:-] ...I only wish that these kits were fiberglass..like the Extra from cmp..that would be nice..

matt13

Thanks for the reply, it looks like I have no more excuses so I will head outside and start on it again before the day gets too hot (forecast is for 32dgrees C). Matt p.s did you use the kit supplied mount?

airplanecrazy

oh yes i did..could be better..but i used it and it works just fine

matt13

Thanks again, will post a few pix's soon, just wasted the cool part of the day setting up a bench to work on(a ten minute job!) so will now have to watch the cricket.[8D]