You'd lose.

Bill, AMA 4720

It would never work, you would have to wait forever for the builders to show up (because they are building, what else) je je

DO I HAVE TO GET THE POPCORN

How about Jousting? That would be cool...we can have ARF Lances and KIT built Lances...LOL

Not a good idea. Yours won't stay together.

Bill, AMA 4720

Don't forget the Letterman Show, You go to it & I'll go to Oprah's Show cause she gives away free stuff !!

Yeah but she would want to make you talk with Dr. Phil. And she wouldn't want to give you any airplane stuff.

Bill, AMA 4720

Is there something wrong with this picture? Another build vs arf thread.....great. Thanks Always a negative side of everything eh big guy?

Do you ever read what you write before you hit the OK button? I have not been doing a build vs ARF thread thing at all. That's been coming from your side of the fence completely. I'm campaigning for the distributors of the ARF's to provide what they claim to sell and nothing more. I've seen too many guys who have fallen out of love with this hobby, due to the unreliable models that they are offered. Even some of the trainers are prone to these same problems.

Look guys, these new guys don't know that they have to rebuild the average ARF before they become reliable models, and they don't have anyone to help them. Why would you, of all people, be against the distributors improving the lot of the ARF models? Think about it.

Bill, AMA 4720

Have all the hanger 9 war birds and know problem. I flew the p-40 for a long time sold it now the new owner has problems How long have you been flying

My eyes are young enough to read what everyone writes. And Yes I read what I wrote. I also read about 2000 of your posts containing lots of negativity towards arf guys. Are my eyes needing another check-up? I agree arf guy's miss out on some of the fundamentals of building but thats what they paid for, an easier route. Maybe like anything else in life they too will learn from trial and error. Just get tired of seeing phrases like "so called arf's" and such from people who could be nicer to the new guy's and try to keep them around instead of making fun of what they bought. Just how I see it. I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

Kevin

Mr. Mugen is right! I think the saying is ; (Different strokes for different folks.) I, every now & then get an ARF. I enjoy building from a kit. I'm starting to build from plans. Maybe the next step will be designing my own plane. Just because a guy ( or gal ) Gets an ARF doesn't mean they like the hobby any less. It don't mean they're challangeing a guy that stick-builds. I've seen some strictly ARF guys atthe airfield that can fly circles aroung some " build guys".. What does that prove? It's ALL THE SAME HOBBY!!!!!

I started flying powered models (free flight) in 1952, and my first R/C was in 1957. How about you?

Bill, AMA 4720

Kevin,

Most of the time I give back what I get. I build from kits, and from plans, as well as from scratch. I would just like to see the new guys have a fighting chance to be successful before they throw in the towel. I have seen the results of not knowing that they need to reglue, modify or outright rebuild their early attempts, and have seen the outcome left in the trash barrels at the field, often with engine/motor, radio gear and all still installed in the wreckage. I don't believe that these guys will be back.

You guys who fly mostly ARF models know that you have to do more work on the plane than the instructions tell you. These new guys do not, and if they do buy them at the local hobby store, especially the chain stores, then they won't get any direction from the store employees, because they either don't know, or don't care. Even the magazine writers are doing these guys a dis-service because it they do mention a deficiency, they just lightly touch on it, and move on.

What's wrong with the old builders among us wanting to see the new guys succeed? Again, all I have said is that the purchaser should get what he pays for, and the distributor is short sighted if he does not want repeat business from happy customers.

Bill, AMA 4720

An older gentleman in his seventies came out to our field a couple of years ago. His wife had passed away after a very long illness that had required his full attention for years. He was in great need of some recreation therapy.

His son who lived off in the big city was very helpful and scoured pawn shops for RC gear and fixed him up with flight box, starter, motors and radio gear. He started with a popular .40 size arf trainer. It was a bit fast and didn't provide the reaction time he needed but survived a few mishaps before being totaled long before the gent had obtained his wings.

He hung around a while because the fellowship had become important to him but had all but given up on flying. Then, after observing another gentleman fly a Sig LT-25 that flew considerably slower and more docile than the trainer he'd fought... he inquired about buying one. When it was explained it was a kit that needed building, he backed off but after explanation that the kit was a reasonably easy build for a beginner with all laser cut parts that fit very well and had extremely good instructions with lots of pics, he sprung for a kit and visited the home center to get glue and a ceiling tile to build on.

More than a year later, he now has two. Because they are all balsa and he has the plans and experience building them, he has repaired both of them several times. The greater reaction time and more docile flight helped him greatly in earning his wings, which didn't come real easy to him. A plus is that he enjoys the building.

There is no right or wrong about ARF or kit... there are good reasons for each. For this gentleman, a kit was just what he needed... for another, it might be an ARF. Finally, I've never observed an instance of a model offering more than this gentleman received from it. It is one of those things that chokes ya up.

All good SB. Maybe there ought to be a sticky at the top of the ARF section explaining all the stuff you just mentioned and then some. A good build tip thread is needed by the sounds of it. I know exactly what you mean by what the instructions don't tell you. Why don't we get a good "get your ARF ready" thread and you more experienced guys can put some of that earned knowledge to good use? I am sure every new guy out there that goes the ARF route would benefit from it. Let's face it, 4 kids and 2 parents working to make ends meet does not allow for many builders this day in age. At least not many that actually get to finish and fly their creations. Time is so dang costly now a day it makes me ill. Kids crying....gotta go.

Kevin

I don't know why "stick/scratch builders" get on such a high horse. I've seen many of their planes end up flying bricks, unidentifiable "stand-off... WAY OFF" scale, crumpling wings, etc plus even more never finished because of design errors, etc. Believe me, when I end up witha stick built plane I really go over it with a fine tooth comb, and usually find things I'm not happy with. If someone doesn't like ARFS ( or whatever) fine but stay out of threads that you, by your own admission, have nothing to add to, other than Racist snipes.
Mike

I find the above statement racist, xenophobic, inappropriate and offensive.

Edited.....sorry to blow up. Sick of seeing same ole same ole from some.

Stick , I agree with these guys , I dont know why if you are so committed to building that you hang in an ARF post unless your like an attourney waiting at the scene of an crash waiting to make your case lol .
Every post your in is a battle while its a shame because when you do stick to the building side you do have a ton to add .
I am going to stop with the fact that just like ARFs , kits have dwindled because most need just as much work and experience as do ARFs , I have build Picas , and Platts kits that look like a box of wood , would have been better off scratch building a plane . ALso plans are wrong , wood grain going the wrong way creating a major weak spot in high stress areas.

The best part of the Hanger 9P40 is that its sold by Horizon , one of the best companys in this industry . If you box your plane up , spend the $25 bucks to ups it back , if they see a manufacturing defect that may have created your crash they usually will make good .
As far as knowing about what to do in this case , well its a warbird and they are never ever ever for pilots who dont know what to check and to look for redundancy .
I have a funny post going under warbirds about having a bad day and guess what every problem I encountered was of my own fault .WHen flying any rc plane you need redundancy -in everything ,
Example -balance the prop and spinner , then add locktight to your engine bolts , add plumbers tape and z42 to your muffler sleeves and or muffler extensions , all set screws , add jb-weld to all easy links and make your adjustments at the clevis end , advoid medal to medal contact ,
glass firewalls & retract installs . Run your engine at home with the cowl off , look for vibration and its effects before you fly even from that prop that you think you balanced .
I can tell you that many will go to there shops , buy a warbird and it has nothing to do with building it has to do with experience in RC period that will make or break your success .
Even when adding weight for CG , so many add before they move anything in the plane or they assemble a short nose warbird before moveing servos ahead of the CG only to add 12 to 30 oz later when its to late .
So my point is who cares if you build or buy arfs , the best thing to do is ASK before you fly , be redundant , be a pain in the a...... because you and your plane are worth it and we as an rc community want your to succeed and have fun regardless of weither you build it , arf it imagined it [8D]

Yeah, what you said !!!! It's ALL IN THE SAME HOBBY!!!!!!!!! If I have fun flying an ARF an kit built, scratch build, a plug-n-play 0r whatever, it's still fun to fly!!!!!!!!!

All in the name of FUN! BTW Wasn't this thread about a warbird? lol...

Obviously, none of you have even read what I wrote. You see a signature from someone called Stickbuilder, and immediately your trigger gets pulled, and you go off half cocked. Mike, I doubt seriously that you have ever owned a true built model from a first class builder. If you did, you would recognize quality work, and not be making the statements that you did.

GAGeeBees, Sorry if I injured your little sensibilities, but them's the breaks.

LDM, It's a free country, and I've seen you in the building forums, so take that. You of all people should have read what I said before you knocked your brain out of gear, and floorboarded your fingers.

Go Back and Read what I said. If you can find fault with what I wrote, or if you can find a lie written there, then I will apologize. If not consider writing one to me.

Bill, AMA 4720

You didn't injure anything except my respect for you. My sensibilities are just fine, thank you just the same. I simply don't tolerate racism in any form and if I see it, I'm going to call you on it, I don't care who you are. Personally, I'm bored beyond telling with your going on ad nauseum about the supposed superiority of kit/scratch building over ARF's. It's too bad, really... with your vast amount of experience I'm sure if you applied yourself you might offer something of value to these discussions but I no longer expect that to happen.

AMEN