Yes indeed most trainers and especially Kadets are far easier to cover with the tail section disassembled. The horizontal and fin as well as the elevator and rudder are all best covered first before hinging and assembly to the fuselage.



Of course don,t forget to cut the covering away with a blade where its inserted and cemented.

John

Excellent you will do fine and remember everyone here has been through the same trials an tribulations. Just a note on the "perfectionist" thing for some reason everyone on their first build tend to go overboard sometimes with the perfectionist thing and its better to relax just a little.

I have no doubt you will do well in realizing the dream.


John

Yeah I figured as much... I just wanted to get working on doing my tail gear mod so I can just be done and ready for covering... I dunno I'll figure it out. Think I will just put on the stabilizer and leave it at that til i get it covered. and then just temperaraliy do the modification for the tail gear. Im gonna put a rod into the rudder and will need to sand it out and fitted... kind of like shown here.

http://www.pacaeromodel.com/Knockabout/Taildragger.pdf

and here

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Also any preferance on different covering materials.  Im still deciding but I'm thinking of doing yellow and black kinda like a bee theme scheme.  All black on top with yellow stripes on wings with all yellow on bottom with black stripes matching the yellow ones on top of wing.   Also strips mid tail... I'll post what im thinking of doing when i get a chance.<div>
</div><div>What in your opinion is the easiest to work with.  I have read about covering and seen some videos but still need to look into it more.  But my main questions is would it be ok to iron on the stripes right onto the layer below it?   </div><div>
</div><div>For instance I have a black wing... I would cover the bottom first since it would be yellow....  Can I put on say 3 2x12 inch stripes right on top of the black?  How well will the Yellow stand out on top of the black... will it still have that pop or would I have to apply a white strip under the yellow to get the same pop... if you know what i mean.</div><div>
</div><div>And dont tell me to do some plain jane thing.... its not gonna happen if you havent noticed by my build so far.  Sorry im not doing all this work to have a covering I'm not happy with.</div><div>
</div><div>And yes I know I should stay away from black as it can be hard to keep orientation but i dont see this being a problem if one side is black and the other is bright yellow..</div>

I used Monokote on my LT .25.. Iliked it but I found later on down the road that Ilike UltraCote better because it seems tougher and for me, Iliked the extra thickness because I can sometimes be a little heavy handed. Now I prefer to stay away from all of it and go the glassing route but thats a different question. I laid my wing out to look like half of the Union Jack(sort of) and put cub yellow on my entire tail and its VERYeasy to see in any condition I have flown in during all times of the year. take a look! Mine sticks out like a sore thumb while my dad's tends to blend in with the overcast...

Also, regardless of what colors you choose, there are bound to be times, conditions and angles where you absolutely will lose all color and will only see a silouhette.. it took me a little bit to get used to it but that becomes a matter of KNOWINGwhat attitude your plane is in and soon it becomes a total non-issue.. I have personally seen a telemaster or two covered in black and yellow and they looked really nice.. visibility was very good and I saw no problems and the pilot told me he liked the scheme because it did make seeing it a little easier.. Imight kindly recommend considering a strip of something Hi-Vis on the leading edge because it helps on finals. I had trouble seeing my trainer until I put some neon green on the LE(it was what we had lying around) and once I did, that bad boy POPS out of that sky and can really be seen. Have fun with the scheme, took me a long time to do mine but it turned out awesome and I learned alot! You'll be fine..


Edit* I also went from Trainers toward Warbirds so I was paddling the same boat up the same river as you are right now, not too long ago myself..

When you are working your way to a warbird, consider one of the H9 ARFs (yes, I said ARF) in your line of trainers. The 60 size (and their new 50 size F4U) fly more like a trainer than what most have come to call "warbird like". They assemble around 7-8 pounds powered by glow fuel and that takes away a lot of the bad manners some attach to warbirds.

What they do is give you flight time with something that looks good and flies good. They will teach you the value of building light also.

Yellow won't look good over the black. As with painting, you always should put darker colors over lighter colors. It will be much better to apply your yellow first, then piece the black sections in with about a 1/4 inch overlap. Don't ever put a strip of white to try and make a light color stand out. You'll be adding weight, doubling the air bubbles you create, making a thicker seam for grime and oil to get trapped into, and if you don't match up your edges perfectly it will look bad.
For good orientation, you might consider going the other route with your trim scheme. Since the sunlight is hitting the top, it's going to look lighter in flight. If your top is black and bottom is yellow, that will actually reduce your contrast considerably. The whole point of making the top and bottom different is to improve visibility, so making the top mostly yellow and the bottom mostly black makes more sense.

As for what to use, Ultracote is my film covering of choice. Monokote is fine too but it works at altogether hotter temperatures and doesn't shrink quite as much. You'll need a covering iron and heat gun to apply it properly. A tip on setting the iron heat right that I only recently learned is to put a small square of covering on the iron and find the setting where the adhesive only gets tacky but the covering doesn't shrink at all. That's your application setting. Then find the setting where the covering only barely starts to shrink. That's your low shrink setting. Then find the setting where the covering won't shrink anymore. That's your high shink setting. Do all of your application at the application setting, pulling the covering as tight as you can and as wrinkle free as you can. I like using the heat gun to do compound curves and for shrinking the covering over open structure such as wing bays, but that should be the only place. There will still be some wrinkles that you can't pull out, so don't worry much if a few small ones remain. Then once all of your covering on a piece is done (whole wing done, whole fuselage done) go back over it at the low shrink setting to pull it uniformly tight and get out the wrinkles. If you've done it right, this will fix 80% of the sags and wrinkles. For whatever is left, make tiny changes to your iron setting and get them out. The whole idea here is to use the lowest heat you can possibly use to get a good finish. That way you'll still have some shrink left when the covering wrinkles and sags in the sun and as it ages, which it always will. The number 1 covering mistake is to get in a hurry and go nuts with the heat gun or use the iron too hot and use up all the shrink instead of pulling the covering tight to begin with. The plane will look good when you're done, but 6 months later it will be a wrinkly mess that you can't fix.

For what ever its worth I would not mount the stabilizer before covering especially that stab that has almost nothing to adhere to next to fuselage, not impossible but definately not for a first timer in covering.

Now to avoid the rod through the fuselage thing which is the problem just forget the torsion type tailwheel steering as that is what most of those installation turn into (a springy torsion bar) and the longer the torsion bar the more difficult the steering becomes. What I prefer to do is a second pushrod to the tailwheel and connected to the opposite side of the servo or even the same side and done like my Moskito in the photo.

Here are some color sample of some of my Kaydets in the clear yellow/black, clear red/black and clear blue/black. The blue ship is what I train folks with and the second wing just finished up and had it out this morning. That wing is ten inch greater wingspan for a special mission.

John

I'll keep that in mind as far as the tail wheel is concened I was worried about it tearing up the rudder as well.  <div>
</div><div>John you have seemed to do alot of kadets.. In the one article i am using to help buikd this they say to replace the stock pushrods.  What are your feelings on that?</div>

Hmm yes I do love/utilize the varous Kaydets or kadets (either spelling at different times has been used by Sig so either is proper) a lot and maybe thats the reason so many in the past have. They are so quick to produce, repair, modify and still maintain those elusive flying characteristics that are so hard to obtain.

The Kaydets are arguably the most successful full house trainer since the seventies as well as perhaps the most kit bashed airplane in the history of RC and that is definately the appeal.

I have even been able to successfully run real pylon races just like the big boys on a special short course and even for the newbies with buddy team racers encouraged. Running those races agine here in a few weeks. One of the photos is the 'Racers' from last year. That wheelchair in the photo is not me but one of my fellow Gympy Guy newbies who I trained just a short time before and he ended in second place a very happy camper.

Here is a link to the rules for our Kaydet Trainer Pylon races:

http://kingmanmodelers.net/race_rule...gman_kadet.htm


I will answer you question about the pushrods to best of my ability latter this afternoon but just want to gather my thoughts as well as a few pictures. I am a poor and slow typist.

Just a few more pictures that you perhaps won't beleve but the pictures don't lie. This is my Oxy Moron Kaydet that can't decide if it likes to fly with or without engines. Anyway it flys beatifully on two .25's but also without them being towed by my Stearman glider tug.

These three photos are different though, look carefully this only happened once and because of this I got a free steak dinner at the "Dambar" a couple of years ago. I bet this young man that even he could pull my airplane into the air and get it to a safe height to do a normal pattern and landing. Man that Steak was excellent, Yum.

Will be back shortly with link and pics.

John

Very cool pics... looks like u guys got a great spot to fly at.  I was in Yuma a few years ago for training when i was in the Army.  You guys got great all year flying i assume.<div>
</div><div>Theres a hobby lobby near me and they got a bunch of models hung from the ceiling from a deceased customer.  He had made a dual engine Kadet also... next time im in there ill have to take some pics.  the guy probably had almost 30 models tucked away in a small row home near philly.</div><div>
</div><div>Im placing my next order on friday for covering, an iron and whatever else i need.  If you could give input on the pushrods that would be great.  The article i was reading said to replace the inner pushrods but to use the outer sleeves that came with it.</div><div>
</div><div>The article im refering to can be found here javascript:mox();  </div>

Absolutely I am back now been very busy catching up on build projects.

OK normally my advice on the internet and perhaps locally with any of the Kadets specificallly is to use the stock stock pushrods as shown on the planes either a peice of quarter square inch stick or round hard wood. The plastic type pushrods are not an upgrade in fact most upgrades of this type that I end up looking at have made the airplane even dangerous. The stock pushrods as shown on the plans are far better, may not be as pretty but far better. Running steel single piece rods in plastic housing is very old school and heavy but with many problems.

The only case where I have seen stock rods that are inferior has been on some container loads of the Nitro planes ripoffs. In this case the round stock include rods were made out of some indigenous punk wood and gave the appearance of a coil spring, definately not what you want for a push rod.

Now yes indeed there are better pushrod systems for that airplane (the various Kadets) but for the moment lets explore the problems of our model aircraft fuselage pushrods setups.

The singular most important litmus test for a fuselage push/pull control rod is very easy and quick to do and something I implore those who I mentor before buying used or built airplanes. All that is neccessary to do is simply put one hand on the elevator servo and the other on the control horn at the surface. Now just push the rod in compression in other words push you hands together. If there is any give at all then this is unacceptable and it is caused by bending of the wire end wires which may have bends in them or flexing of the pushrod itself.

I have examined installation that are so bad that the surface could just flop back and forth, Its difficult to control an airplane that way and these wet noodle installations are a major cause of folks having trouble learning their airplanes at times.

There are two ways to eliminate wet noodle installation easily at this stage. First use zero bends in your rods even the wire ends. Next use carbon fibre rod that is specific to the the 2/56 threaded rod end wires.

I am going to start up agine in a few minutes as I am in danger of timing out for now.

John

As far as pushrods go, I'll be one to recommend these.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFU92&P=0

OK back agine Now we left off with carbon fibre rod fitted for 2/56 wire rod ends, key point here and this is the key to what makes this system so economical and effective for a wide variety of our aircraft that do not need 4/40 rod ends.

This small pylon specific cottage industry supplier is the only one I am aware of where you can get this rod that is a perfect slip fit for our 2/56 wire ends. You will not find it at the big houses or places that is specific to pattern or aerobatics. There are no fancy ends required the rods are small diamter making installation much easier.

Since I have introduced our local hobby shop and he does now stock the rods from Darrol Cady the majority of our entire club has pretty much become sold on this method.

Peruse darrols web site here and push the C/F button on the left and you find a complete tutorial for this method. The cost to do your Cadet I think each rod is around dunno five bucks and you need one dubro wire end 12 inch buck or so for each rod. Threads on the back end and plain wire on the servo end for your S bend.

This method of actually assembling the rod before glueing allows for a perfect installation every time. No guess work.

http://www.darrolcady.com/


John

<span style="font-family: Arial;">Thanks for the input on the rods i will have to look into it more to make sure I fully understand... all of this would make a lot more sense if I hadexperience</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">with any of this stuff. But looking at the stuff right out of the box I can easily tell its not up to par with what I would expect. There's no way to have any kind ofprecision</span><span style="font-family: Arial;">control with wet noodle rods as you put it. Anyone with common sense could see that.</span><div style="font-family: Arial;"></div><div style="font-family: Arial;">Anyway here's one paint scheme I'm looking to possibly do... thoughts comments?

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I think your trim scheme looks sharp, but as I said earlier you'll have an easier to see plane if you'll go mostly yellow with black stripes and do only the bottom black if you want to. A black plane turns to a shadow pretty quickly, while yellow is the easiest color there is to see against a blue or overcast sky (that is and see enough airframe detail to keep orientation). You can lay the black covering right over the yellow, but as mentioned before you'll have to put the yellow stripes down on the black area and then overlap the black over them to make it look right.

On the pushrods, while it's 100% true that carbon rods work well, I think they are overkill on a trainer. A good stiff wood pushrod will work fine as will any of the rod in a tube setups.

I vote for the yellow covering with black stripes. I have had several Kadets myself & i used the square wood push rods with 2-56 ends without ever haveing any problems. The key to the ny rods is to support them so they dont flex or bend under stress. This important step is often omitted by inexperienced people thus giveing the ny rods a bad rap. If used correctly they come in handy. I use carbon fiber push rods on my pylon racers and helicopters as well, where light weight & stiffness are the main concerns.....Gene

Yes this is pretty much an all year area and I have loved it since I retired here.

The problem with the deceased modeler is a pretty common situation most everywhere and I have choosen to contribute most of my 'stuff' before I croak and elminate the problem for my daughter. Two of my ships are already in the small local full scale air museum with more of the scale stuff to go there after passing, The bulk of my stuff will go to a younger man who in my retirement has been instrumental in keeping me flying and avoiding sitting back to watch the grass grow or the paint to dry. That is all spelled out in my will which was all recently spelled out among my daughter and I before a recent serious procedure.

I also do have a small museum of bits and pieces collected over the years simply because I like the stuff and this is spelled out for donation to the AMA museum.


Just a couple of thoughts on colors. What may work best for you also has to do with your climate. Here the predominate condition is severe clear/blue. and what works best are the dark colors. This is why the majority of my airplanes are such colors. Now if your part of the country suffer many overcast cloudy days then the predominate color of white that you see so often is a poor choice.

Yes a contrast between the top surfaces and the bottom is very helpful although I do not often practice this.

Another thing that I see very often especially on arfs is complex multi color designs. The problem here is this will tend to fade to gray at a much closer distance than a simple design limited to just maybe a single color or two.


John

Hit a lil bit of a snag... i custom made the tail gear and was going to originally run it into the rudder. Its been suggested to run it off the rudder servo but I'm curious how to make the connection. Does anyone know the dimensions of the 1/8 control arm from sig for their nose gear? I have the 5/16th one that came with the kits nose gear but its too long to use in the tail.

lol the gears are turning slowly... btw I used 1/8 music wire to make the gear

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If you work the tail wheel off the rudder, you need to move the coller or install a second one below your tail wheel bracket. If not, you will transfer your landing shock directly to the rudder. I have had several tail wheels on my Kadets all woring directly off the rudder only this way without any problems. Heres a picture to explaine what i'm talking about. If you look closely you will see i used a piece of carbon rod that passes thru the fuse & stabilizer for added support .....Gene

Keep it simple here one of mine that needed more solid than normal installation and linkage for carrier landing. the standard dubro nose wheel steering arm can be use on your tailwheel just above the dubro tailwheel bracket and use an external pushrod at that point.

This has many advantages in adjustabilty and utility at the field. Simplicity trumps looks every time when it comes to lost time at the field

If you must have it completely internal linkage the dubro TW brackedt must be mounted to flat plate that is removable with screws and the steering wire is just a little longer with the steering horn mounted just a little higher up. The steering arm is clipped off just enough to fit and the furthest hole out possible is used. When the pushrod is attached to the steering arm that has been clipped then the other end of the pushrod must be mounted to the very closest hole possible to the servo output arm.

John

Ok so I came up with my solution... hopefully it works out well. I did some brainstorming of parts available and seeing how the closest hobby store is like a half hour away and i didnt even know if they would have it i came up with my own control arm. I took an arm from the servos I have and bored it out to fit in a collar shaft that fits the wire I am using for the tail wheel... 1/8 i believe. I'm at work so I cant look at it but i believe thats correct.

Anyway the plastics a tight fit and I epoxied it and it all seems pretty solid... what do you think?



Also stupid question here... how do I attach my wheels to my landing gear? I'm a bit confused.

I have thislandinggear andthesewere recommended for the axles. But unlike other available bolt on axles such as these, the ones I got are threaded all the way through. Which makes the wheels turn like crap and not smooth at all. If my assumption is correct and I order the correct axles this time. How then do you secure the wheels so the spin freely without side to side motion. Do I place to collar shafts on both sides of the wheel to keep it in place?

Your bored out servo arm to fit a collor may work just fine as a tailwheel steering horn. Another alternative would be to solder a piece of flat brass strap directly to the steering rod. This was very much an old school method that worked well also. But of course old school involved making your own control horns out of plywood, not much of that going on anymore

Concerning the axles anytime flat plastic or flat aluminmum gear is used the preferable axles by far are the latter type you linked anytime over just bolts. The common method to hold the wheels on are Wheel axle Collors which have a set screw. These are acceptable if you file a flat for the set screw. These days I only solder washers or old collors on the axles but you can use ordinary axle collors. You only need a collor on the inside of the wheel if a spacer is needed.


John

Black Horse Models the 4D Stick , great and easy to land does pritty much everything you need from it and is cheap and easy no probs with tank pos easy build ...</p>

A lil update.... got a lot done pretty much just need to finish covering and hook everything up. I painted/fuel proofed the firewall and stuff. Got tail wheel done the main thing that was intimidating was covering and although I'm not gonna win any awards I think its starting to look good and was easier then i thought. I got some wrinkles and stuff but overall its not too bad. Its getting easier as I go.

I got to go to work for two days hopefully I will be able to finish the rest off the covering when I get back home.