Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
03-22-2013, 05:48 PM
#101
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
you are so wrong foam planes are not the answer start off with sig kadet mark ii with os 46 or os 61 , not this cheap foam crap you cant even fly them in the wind , we have guys at our field who try to fly that cheap foam crap we get out our gassers 25 to 35% planes and fly in 20 mph wind we look and smile as they stare in awe , get a real rc airplane not a cooler turned into a plane what a damn joke !!!!!! fly real rc aircraft made from balsa and bass wood
03-22-2013, 06:56 PM
#102
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: flycatch
One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.
One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.
Electronic stability is not a replacement for pilot ability, but I will "keep it in mind." You will become more comfortable with them as you become more educated on their features (both what they provide and what they don't).
Kurt
03-22-2013, 07:35 PM
#103
Moderator
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
Pilots with Pmerritt's experience are the ones who will likely benefit the most from the new stability systems. They won't keep you from getting too slow and stalling and certainly won't keep you from making the wrong corrections, but if a guy is just having a hard time dealing with the wind or is having orientation issues, they can mean the difference between having good days at the flying field or selling off everything and doing something else.
03-22-2013, 08:31 PM
#104
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: Bozarth
Electronic stability is not a replacement for pilot ability, but I will ''keep it in mind.'' You will become more comfortable with them as you become more educated on their features (both what they provide and what they don't).
Kurt
ORIGINAL: flycatch
One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.
One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.
Electronic stability is not a replacement for pilot ability, but I will ''keep it in mind.'' You will become more comfortable with them as you become more educated on their features (both what they provide and what they don't).
Kurt
03-22-2013, 08:56 PM
#105
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: flycatch
I flew UAVs for the military so I have the credentials to make my statement.
ORIGINAL: Bozarth
Electronic stability is not a replacement for pilot ability, but I will ''keep it in mind.'' You will become more comfortable with them as you become more educated on their features (both what they provide and what they don't).
Kurt
ORIGINAL: flycatch
One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.
One thing to keep in mind is that those people who rely on electronic assistance to keep them airborne are handicapped and should never call themselves real pilots.
Electronic stability is not a replacement for pilot ability, but I will ''keep it in mind.'' You will become more comfortable with them as you become more educated on their features (both what they provide and what they don't).
Kurt
I flew F-16Cs in the COANG and instructed at Reese AFB before it shut down. Toot, toot, toot.
03-23-2013, 02:13 PM
#106
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
Does your LHS not stock GP products? Do you favor HH for any particular reason? Have you ever built (gasp) akit?
How do you accommodate the so-called video game generation? What if your newbie only shops on internet sites, such as Nitro Planes or Hobby King?
Have you forgotten rotorcraft beginners? What about flight simulators? And, powered-gliders? Have you ever flown a "toy-grade" RC? Like a Syma or Air Hogs?
Here is an excellent link, for those new to RC Flight: http://www.modelaircraft.org/membersonly/intropilotdesc.aspx
The AMA's "Introductory Pilot Program" extends any chartered-clubs' liability insurance to any non-member for 6 months.
Use the following link to find a club, in your local area, US only: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx
"Teach-yourself-to-fly" and "Toy Grade" RC aircraft are, absolutely, an acceptable way to learn the aerodynamics of flight.
However, any new pilot will inevitably encounter airspace issues, when flying at a non-sanctioned airfield.
Also, three-channel /fixed-wing aircraft, like the HZ/PZ Champ, do use wing-dihedral to force a roll. So, in these cases, rudder on the right stick is not going to cause bad habits.
A steerable tail wheel, on the right stick can cause bad habits.And, three-channel / rudder-only helis, including the HH Blade Scout CX, can cause bad habits, .
Some new to RC flight, are interested in multi-rotor craft. Yes, pricing and availability are important tohobby shop sales; but, don't overlook the "coolness" factor!
Those new to RC flight are always likely to buy whatever is "hot", in the store, or popular with their friends. Unfortunately, this willmatch some beginners with aexcessively advance model.
Manufacturers and distributors will often advertise aircraft as "trainers". But, don't take this language for granted. Some turbine-powered jets can be considered "trainers". Sport planes, modeled after full-scale trainers, can also be considered "trainers". Those new to RC flight should look for absolute "beginner" aircraft, but even this term can be mis-stated.
Providing multiple product links, from one major hobby distributor, is not going to help any new pilot, "sort out [their] RC options".
How do you accommodate the so-called video game generation? What if your newbie only shops on internet sites, such as Nitro Planes or Hobby King?
Have you forgotten rotorcraft beginners? What about flight simulators? And, powered-gliders? Have you ever flown a "toy-grade" RC? Like a Syma or Air Hogs?
Here is an excellent link, for those new to RC Flight: http://www.modelaircraft.org/membersonly/intropilotdesc.aspx
The AMA's "Introductory Pilot Program" extends any chartered-clubs' liability insurance to any non-member for 6 months.
Use the following link to find a club, in your local area, US only: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx
"Teach-yourself-to-fly" and "Toy Grade" RC aircraft are, absolutely, an acceptable way to learn the aerodynamics of flight.
However, any new pilot will inevitably encounter airspace issues, when flying at a non-sanctioned airfield.
Also, three-channel /fixed-wing aircraft, like the HZ/PZ Champ, do use wing-dihedral to force a roll. So, in these cases, rudder on the right stick is not going to cause bad habits.
A steerable tail wheel, on the right stick can cause bad habits.And, three-channel / rudder-only helis, including the HH Blade Scout CX, can cause bad habits, .
Some new to RC flight, are interested in multi-rotor craft. Yes, pricing and availability are important tohobby shop sales; but, don't overlook the "coolness" factor!
Those new to RC flight are always likely to buy whatever is "hot", in the store, or popular with their friends. Unfortunately, this willmatch some beginners with aexcessively advance model.
Manufacturers and distributors will often advertise aircraft as "trainers". But, don't take this language for granted. Some turbine-powered jets can be considered "trainers". Sport planes, modeled after full-scale trainers, can also be considered "trainers". Those new to RC flight should look for absolute "beginner" aircraft, but even this term can be mis-stated.
Providing multiple product links, from one major hobby distributor, is not going to help any new pilot, "sort out [their] RC options".
My suggestion is to run-what-ya-brung….make the learning experience a win-win for you and your newbie.
The benefit, to this approach, is you will be allowed to pre-check and test fly many new and different aircraft!
Happy Flying….
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
Allow me to help you sort out your RC options my good friends.
This is the plane that I suggest you start off with. It is only $89 for everything you need and it stays fun for a long time. The best part is that you don't need a big area to fly it in and it is very easy to transport: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/champ-rtf-HBZ4900
Here is an example of me flying mine in the wind:
There are other trainers out there, but this is the least expensive and best way to learn IMHO due to its price and light weight. Less mass means less destructive damage. It does mean that it will get blown around in the wind more than a larger plane, but no planes should be flown in the wind by a beginner anyhow. I do suggest flying only over grass during your first few flights in a wide open area. The grass is far more forgiving than pavement is when you crash and if the area is wide open, there is no chance to crash into a tree if it gets away from you.
Here is the best aileron trainer to learn on IMHO. It is $99 and works with the controller that comes with the trainer plane. It also looks insanely cool in person during low passes. It looks very realistic in the air and is a lot faster than the trainer plane: http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...n-bnf-PKZU1580
Once you have mastered the aileron trainer, flying either one of the next two planes should be well within your grasp(you will need to upgrade your controller to handle the bigger one for sure due to the speed of the plane and limited range of the controller than comes with the trainer plane):
***Note: The single most important thing to keep in mind is to never try to fly more plane than you are ready for. Crashing can be discouraging and expensive. You can also hurt people if you aren't careful.***
Once you have mastered those planes, you can fly just about anything like an EDF jet or a Mini Stryker:
I bought this jet as my second plane and it ended with a very smashed up jet and ego after I crashed on its very first flight! I was also lucky I didn't hurt anybody:
If you look closely, the front nose cone is all smashed to heck from its first flight lol
This is my newest plane and I love how fast and responsive it is:
I think this is enough information to get the conversation started in this thread. Feel free to ask any RC related questions you have. I love this hobby and am happy to help out you guys just starting out any way I can.
Also, others should feel free to contribute what they have learned to the beginners in this thread. I certainly don't know it all and can probably benefit from your input as well as the beginners.
Happy flying! 
03-23-2013, 08:58 PM
#107
Thread Starter
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
flycatch- Is this not a public forum? Do we not exchange information openly and freely? Or is this a place where the "old guard" that is stuck back in the 80's need to give their stamp of approval before someone with a different opinion can post it? Guess what, the hobby is going the direction closer to what is posted in the OP and that is something you are going to have to deal with.<o
></o>
Not only that, stock car racing is pretty much as far from interesting as things get for me, other than urban music and opera, of course <o></o>
"You sir are an exception to the rule and this does not give you the authority to speak for others. You need to start driving stock cars so you can become the leader of the pack."<o></o>
Saying things like this make you look as bad. Stop it, please. If you get your identity by flying RC planes and calling yourself a "Pilot", then OH BOY!!!
<o></o>
"Your first paragraph reminds me of so called pilots who don't know what the rudder is for. As for your second I too have seen the same thing but for every success there are alot more failures."
t-max97- I was referencing coordination. If you can't fly the Champ in winds less than 5mph then you have some serious issues that need to be worked through.
"Hahaha, why because they have more experience than you and know how learning yourself typically ends in many crashed planes and quitting the hobby? Then yes snobby old farts.... makes since. How does being athletic or not have anything to do with flying an rc plane?"<o></o>
opjose- Serious question here - are you a woman? The reason I ask is because only a woman would be that presumptuous. I didn't cite a reason for it in my response and I sure as hell would not be shunned for breaking the rules at an event. What I was getting at was if any of you guys on here are representative of the population at said events, then I would not be very welcomed there. In fact, I would probably be arrested for punching some of you guys in the mouth or choking you out. My guess is that it probably wouldn't come to that because you more likely than not would have less courage in person as you do behind the serenity of your keyboard.<o></o>
With that being said, I am a very conservative flyer. In fact, my flying buddies give me crap about being so "safe" and guess what!?!?!?! They are AMA members!!!<o></o>
So yeah, I am a such a boastful renegade with the way I fly and I am certainly advocating soooo much irresponsibility lol In addition,I never said that they shouldn't seek an instructor or join the AMA. Again, you have to have a ****** with the way you just assume things. I was merely citing the path I took and welcomed the advice of those more experienced than I am in the hobby in the OP of this thread.
Folks like you then took what I said and twisted it and bent in in a way to advance whatever your agendas are. It is laughable really.
"Again that is merely an anecdotal response which has NOTHING to do with years and years of experience teaching hundreds of thousands of novices.<o></o>
The fact that you say "While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon" also implies a self perceived quantity of irresponsibility in what you are doing.<o></o>
You didn't start out by saying "I fly by AMA guidelines and I doubt the AMA would have any problem with what I do." . Your response is indicative of a boastful "renegade" approach.<o></o>
Chuck at the least is not advocating any such irresponsibility and I've seen him give VERY good advice on other threads to novices about seeking help and also when "doing it alone".<o></o>
Most of the do-it-yourselfers get poor "do-it-yourself" advice and go out and fly on public lands or locations where such things are proscribed, thanks in large part to what they hear.<o></o>
Forget their ability, forget the types of planes they fly, but remember a litigious public anxious about any perceived threats from RC aircraft.<o></o>
Take everything in total, the assertion that telling a novice to "do it alone" is the worst advice you can give."<o></o>
03-23-2013, 09:36 PM
#108
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
Who made you the forum police. The last time I was an AMA member I was shot down by another AMA member and had a mid air collision with another. Your right I'm an old fart and still fly on 72mhz. One last thing your true colors blossomed when you mentioned violence toward others and using an insult to silence another. One last thing did you ever get paid in a professional endeavor associated with this hobby? I did for eighteen years flying aerial targets for our military as a civilian contractor.
03-24-2013, 07:10 PM
#109
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
Jeez you guys need to get over yourselves. I taught myself to fly on a poorly built .40 sized glow trainer 30 years ago. Sure I beat it up a little but the lessons I learned stuck with me much better than being bailed out by some instructor who required 50-60 flights before letting me use my own brain and think for myself. Heck I don't think I had 50 flights before I earned my fixed wing full scale pilot's license. Drive on GBLynden. My first and last post on this forum. I now return to "Lurker" status.
03-25-2013, 05:03 AM
#111
Moderator
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
People get way too emotional in these threads. For any beginner, there is a beaten path that has been proven to work very well. There is no need to figure it out for yourself or reinvent the wheel. That path is working with an instructor using a trainer plane to learn basic flying, then advancing to a sport plane to learn aerobatics. It's not that hard. Guys who don't have access to a club or whose financial situation dictates they stick with park flyers would do well to try and find an instructor anyway, but the market has produced RTF planes that are more forgiving of bad piloting and therefore make going it alone more feasible than it used to be. For the renegades who want to do it all alone, stay safe and get ready to do lots of repairing. Either way, have fun and do the best you can to build your skills so you can enjoy this hobby.
03-25-2013, 05:32 AM
#112
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
Well said Jester.
I was one of those who learned on his own, to a point. Wasn't because I was a renegade. When I started flying I just didn't know about AMA, or local flying clubs, or RCU. I had done some fullscale flying and knew that I loved flying, didn't matter what kind. I didn't realize there was an easier way to learn rc until after I had already struggled thru teaching myself with some electric park flyers, which cost me lots of crashes, repairs, and wasted time and money. Fortunately, I was determined enough that I didn't let the failures discourage me. The biggest reason I got serious about teaching people to fly was to save them the unnecessary trouble I went through.
Was my time and money totally wasted? No. I accomplished my goal and learned a lot. But my time and money was certainly not used as efficiently as it would have been if I had joined a club and started the right way. I learned more and improved my skills more when I joined a club and took advantage of the experience and knowledge of the other members.
Would I recommend others take the same path I did? Absolutely not.
Somebody once said"learn from others mistakes, you don't have time to make them all yourself". I think that's a wiseprincipal to live by.[8D]<o></o>
03-25-2013, 06:15 AM
#113
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.
I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.
For starters, to the best of my knowledge, the AMA doesn't offer a preferred or recommended way to learn to fly radio control. The AMA offers the Intro Pilot program for folks who want to learn in a club setting. It also offers the Park Pilot Partner program, however, that lets folks who want to learn on park flyer electric aircraft contact experienced pilots for help or to get questions answered. The whole Park Pilot program from the AMA is in recognition of the growing trend of new pilots teaching themselves on small electrics.
I'm speaking unofficially here, but the AMA doesn't have any issue with folks learning to fly by themselves. They also aren't the "fun police," the AMA simply provides a solid framework of common sense safety guidelines for pilots to adhere to, and they insist that you follow them if you'd like the AMA to insure you.
I mentioned that insisting on buddy box training as the only way to learn and the referral of buddy box instructor training as "old school" is revisionist history. The reason? The old guard learned to fly long before buddy boxes were developed.
The old school way to learn to fly was to build your own kit and take six months putting your first airplane together, then going out and wrecking it ten seconds into your first flight. You'd pick up the pieces, go home, glue it back together, and hope you got 20 seconds of flying time in on the next flight before you crashed. You would rinse and repeat until you finally didn't need to bring a broom and a dustpan with you every time you flew.
Frankly, GBLynden is the "old school" pilot here.
If you wanted to get help when you were training back in the good old days, you'd have an experienced pilot stand directly behind you and you'd both have your hands on the transmitter sticks while the student flew. The instructor could either fly the plane while the student followed along, and thus help gain a feeling for the proper amount of stick movement required to fly the plane, or the student could fly the sticks with the instructor simply pressing corrective stick movements in when deemed necessary.
I've seen one instructor actually try to teach with this method; it's pretty funny to see two grown men intertwined so closely in the middle of a public park!
I'm a big fan of the instructor and buddy box method of training; it really helped me out when I was learning to fly and I progressed far more quickly than I had trying to learn on my own. That having been said, most of the truly old school RC pilots out there taught themselves to fly, and many learned long before the buddy box was invented.
There are many ways to learn to fly, the AMA doesn't frown upon any one method over the other, and I believe GBLynden would be quite welcome at most any AMA sanctioned flying event that he might wish to attend.
03-25-2013, 08:11 AM
#114
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: Rkestes
Jeez you guys need to get over yourselves. I taught myself to fly on a poorly built .40 sized glow trainer 30 years ago. Sure I beat it up a little but the lessons I learned stuck with me much better than being bailed out by some instructor who required 50-60 flights before letting me use my own brain and think for myself. Heck I don't think I had 50 flights before I earned my fixed wing full scale pilot's license. Drive on GBLynden. My first and last post on this forum. I now return to ''Lurker'' status.
Jeez you guys need to get over yourselves. I taught myself to fly on a poorly built .40 sized glow trainer 30 years ago. Sure I beat it up a little but the lessons I learned stuck with me much better than being bailed out by some instructor who required 50-60 flights before letting me use my own brain and think for myself. Heck I don't think I had 50 flights before I earned my fixed wing full scale pilot's license. Drive on GBLynden. My first and last post on this forum. I now return to ''Lurker'' status.
03-25-2013, 10:13 AM
#115
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
<opjose - Serious question here - are you a woman? The reason I ask is because only a woman would be that presumptuous.
<opjose - Serious question here - are you a woman? The reason I ask is because only a woman would be that presumptuous.
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
What I was getting at was if any of you guys on here are representative of the population at said events, then I would not be very welcomed there. In fact, I would probably be arrested for punching some of you guys in the mouth or choking you out.
What I was getting at was if any of you guys on here are representative of the population at said events, then I would not be very welcomed there. In fact, I would probably be arrested for punching some of you guys in the mouth or choking you out.
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
Again, you have to have a **** with the way you just assume things. I was merely citing the path I took and welcomed the advice of those more experienced than I am in the hobby in the OP of this thread.
Folks like you then took what I said and twisted it and bent in in a way to advance whatever your agendas are. It is laughable really.
Again, you have to have a **** with the way you just assume things. I was merely citing the path I took and welcomed the advice of those more experienced than I am in the hobby in the OP of this thread.
Folks like you then took what I said and twisted it and bent in in a way to advance whatever your agendas are. It is laughable really.
So far your tone and language is opposite to the the very things the more responsible "folks" are advocating.
Better to be part of the solution, not the problem.
"Most of the do-it-yourselfers get poor "do-it-yourself" advice and go out and fly on public lands or locations where such things are proscribed, thanks in large part to what they hear.
Forget their ability, forget the types of planes they fly, but remember a litigious public anxious about any perceived threats from RC aircraft.
Take everything in total, the assertion that telling a novice to "do it alone" is the worst advice you can give."
03-26-2013, 12:27 PM
#116
Thread Starter
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: opjose
Sounds like I struck a nerve here. Don't look now but your chauvinism is showing too.
With that type of attitude it is unlikely any club would welcome you.
The only agenda here is NOT to give iresponsible advice.
So far your tone and language is opposite to the the very things the more responsible "folks" are advocating.
Better to be part of the solution, not the problem.
"Most of the do-it-yourselfers get poor "do-it-yourself" advice and go out and fly on public lands or locations where such things are proscribed, thanks in large part to what they hear.
Forget their ability, forget the types of planes they fly, but remember a litigious public anxious about any perceived threats from RC aircraft.
Take everything in total, the assertion that telling a novice to "do it alone" is the worst advice you can give."
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
<opjose serious="" question="" here="" are="" you="" a="" the="" reason="" i="" ask="" is="" because="" only="" woman="" would="" be="" that="">
<opjose serious="" question="" here="" are="" you="" a="" the="" reason="" i="" ask="" is="" because="" only="" woman="" would="" be="" that="">
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
What I was getting at was if any of you guys on here are representative of the population at said events, then I would not be very welcomed there. In fact, I would probably be arrested for punching some of you guys in the mouth or choking you out.
What I was getting at was if any of you guys on here are representative of the population at said events, then I would not be very welcomed there. In fact, I would probably be arrested for punching some of you guys in the mouth or choking you out.
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
Again, you have to have a **** with the way you just assume things. I was merely citing the path I took and welcomed the advice of those more experienced than I am in the hobby in the OP of this thread.
Folks like you then took what I said and twisted it and bent in in a way to advance whatever your agendas are. It is laughable really.
Again, you have to have a **** with the way you just assume things. I was merely citing the path I took and welcomed the advice of those more experienced than I am in the hobby in the OP of this thread.
Folks like you then took what I said and twisted it and bent in in a way to advance whatever your agendas are. It is laughable really.
So far your tone and language is opposite to the the very things the more responsible "folks" are advocating.
Better to be part of the solution, not the problem.
"Most of the do-it-yourselfers get poor "do-it-yourself" advice and go out and fly on public lands or locations where such things are proscribed, thanks in large part to what they hear.
Forget their ability, forget the types of planes they fly, but remember a litigious public anxious about any perceived threats from RC aircraft.
Take everything in total, the assertion that telling a novice to "do it alone" is the worst advice you can give."
Chauvinist huh? BAHAHAHA! Manly words not even once.
None of the advice I have given is irrsponsible. It is far more irresponsible to advise brand new folks to buy an expensive, large heavy plane with many variables that can mess them up versus a very straight-forward 1.3 oz $89 foam plane. Now, I know you said that there has to be an instructor and buddy box, etc, but let's be honest. Not everyone is going to want to be patient and wait to fly around an instructor's schedule and they are probably going to try to fly it when no one else is around which IS DANGEROUS.
What do I really think is going on? Many of you are paid instructors and you see your business being threatened by viable alternatives (not neccessarily the best, but they are viable) to your businesses or your friend's businesses. That is why you guys have your heads in the sand. No reasonable or logical person would say the things you all have if you don't have some sort of vested interest in snuffing out the idea of what I did. I am also nothing special, so it comes down to the fact that is it easy to do what I did with the Champ and my other planes.
In truth, I would have preferred to have an instructor teach me how to fly looking back, but I honestly didn't know it was an option and I also didn't know that I would get this far into this hobby. With that in mind, there is no way I would have paid money for someone to train me on "how to have fun" and I am pretty sure I am not alone. But again, in hindsight, I agree (which I have not refuted here) that an instructor is a great way to go. Provided you can offord it and are close to an air field large enough to safely learn to fly with one of the larger planes.
However, I do strongly disagree with the cost component. If you fly the Champ and stick with just the Champ for a while (flying it only over grass), it won't cost you much money even if you break a wing or two. I did a lot of stupid things with it and I only had to replace the tail section ONCE. An instructor would cost significantly more than what I paid to fly all by myself on my schedule and at my pace. To those of you that say that it is so expensive to go this route, you are flat out wrong. I have only had to buy glue and a new tail section for my Champ to learn to fly. That comes to well under $30. So doing basic math, $89 + $30= $119. That is hardly expensive, especially when you consider that I still fly it on occasion 100's of flights later.
</opjose>
03-26-2013, 12:28 PM
#117
Thread Starter
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: bigedmustafa
This thread seems to be suffering from "revisionist history," to some degree.
For starters, to the best of my knowledge, the AMA doesn't offer a preferred or recommended way to learn to fly radio control. The AMA offers the Intro Pilot program for folks who want to learn in a club setting. It also offers the Park Pilot Partner program, however, that lets folks who want to learn on park flyer electric aircraft contact experienced pilots for help or to get questions answered. The whole Park Pilot program from the AMA is in recognition of the growing trend of new pilots teaching themselves on small electrics.
I'm speaking unofficially here, but the AMA doesn't have any issue with folks learning to fly by themselves. They also aren't the "fun police," the AMA simply provides a solid framework of common sense safety guidelines for pilots to adhere to, and they insist that you follow them if you'd like the AMA to insure you.
I mentioned that insisting on buddy box training as the only way to learn and the referral of buddy box instructor training as "old school" is revisionist history. The reason? The old guard learned to fly long before buddy boxes were developed.
The old school way to learn to fly was to build your own kit and take six months putting your first airplane together, then going out and wrecking it ten seconds into your first flight. You'd pick up the pieces, go home, glue it back together, and hope you got 20 seconds of flying time in on the next flight before you crashed. You would rinse and repeat until you finally didn't need to bring a broom and a dustpan with you every time you flew.
Frankly, GBLynden is the "old school" pilot here.
If you wanted to get help when you were training back in the good old days, you'd have an experienced pilot stand directly behind you and you'd both have your hands on the transmitter sticks while the student flew. The instructor could either fly the plane while the student followed along, and thus help gain a feeling for the proper amount of stick movement required to fly the plane, or the student could fly the sticks with the instructor simply pressing corrective stick movements in when deemed necessary.
I've seen one instructor actually try to teach with this method; it's pretty funny to see two grown men intertwined so closely in the middle of a public park!
I'm a big fan of the instructor and buddy box method of training; it really helped me out when I was learning to fly and I progressed far more quickly than I had trying to learn on my own. That having been said, most of the truly old school RC pilots out there taught themselves to fly, and many learned long before the buddy box was invented.
There are many ways to learn to fly, the AMA doesn't frown upon any one method over the other, and I believe GBLynden would be quite welcome at most any AMA sanctioned flying event that he might wish to attend.
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.
I absolutely love how this dialog is going on still, particularly that from Chuck. The reality is that you guys are pretty snobby old farts (in mindset, not nessarily in age), which is fine. That is your right, but Chucks points are dead on. While I may not be welcomed to any AMA event anytime soon, I am highly capable of flying a wide variety of planes safely using the said proticol I layed out above and only flew often starting about 9 months ago. I have since helped others use the same steps and they are flying well too.
For starters, to the best of my knowledge, the AMA doesn't offer a preferred or recommended way to learn to fly radio control. The AMA offers the Intro Pilot program for folks who want to learn in a club setting. It also offers the Park Pilot Partner program, however, that lets folks who want to learn on park flyer electric aircraft contact experienced pilots for help or to get questions answered. The whole Park Pilot program from the AMA is in recognition of the growing trend of new pilots teaching themselves on small electrics.
I'm speaking unofficially here, but the AMA doesn't have any issue with folks learning to fly by themselves. They also aren't the "fun police," the AMA simply provides a solid framework of common sense safety guidelines for pilots to adhere to, and they insist that you follow them if you'd like the AMA to insure you.
I mentioned that insisting on buddy box training as the only way to learn and the referral of buddy box instructor training as "old school" is revisionist history. The reason? The old guard learned to fly long before buddy boxes were developed.
The old school way to learn to fly was to build your own kit and take six months putting your first airplane together, then going out and wrecking it ten seconds into your first flight. You'd pick up the pieces, go home, glue it back together, and hope you got 20 seconds of flying time in on the next flight before you crashed. You would rinse and repeat until you finally didn't need to bring a broom and a dustpan with you every time you flew.
Frankly, GBLynden is the "old school" pilot here.
If you wanted to get help when you were training back in the good old days, you'd have an experienced pilot stand directly behind you and you'd both have your hands on the transmitter sticks while the student flew. The instructor could either fly the plane while the student followed along, and thus help gain a feeling for the proper amount of stick movement required to fly the plane, or the student could fly the sticks with the instructor simply pressing corrective stick movements in when deemed necessary.
I've seen one instructor actually try to teach with this method; it's pretty funny to see two grown men intertwined so closely in the middle of a public park!
I'm a big fan of the instructor and buddy box method of training; it really helped me out when I was learning to fly and I progressed far more quickly than I had trying to learn on my own. That having been said, most of the truly old school RC pilots out there taught themselves to fly, and many learned long before the buddy box was invented.
There are many ways to learn to fly, the AMA doesn't frown upon any one method over the other, and I believe GBLynden would be quite welcome at most any AMA sanctioned flying event that he might wish to attend.
03-26-2013, 08:02 PM
#118
Moderator
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: GBLynden
It is far more irresponsible to advise brand new folks to buy an expensive, large heavy plane with many variables that can mess them up versus a very straight-forward 1.3 oz $89 foam plane. Now, I know you said that there has to be an instructor and buddy box, etc, but let's be honest. Not everyone is going to want to be patient and wait to fly around an instructor's schedule and they are probably going to try to fly it when no one else is around which IS DANGEROUS.
What do I really think is going on? Many of you are paid instructors and you see your business being threatened by viable alternatives (not neccessarily the best, but they are viable) to your businesses or your friend's businesses. That is why you guys have your heads in the sand. No reasonable or logical person would say the things you all have if you don't have some sort of vested interest in snuffing out the idea of what I did. I am also nothing special, so it comes down to the fact that is it easy to do what I did with the Champ and my other planes.
03-27-2013, 09:03 AM
#120
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
"Reality though is that we simply care about new pilots getting started right, thus the time we spend posting here and attending training days at our clubs"
Yes, but reality for whom jester?? Simply put, that reality that youcling tois now completely obsolete and anachronistic. IT IS NOWpossible to learn how to fly an RC aircraft by yourself and without spending a ton of money. Why can't you just swallow that fact and admit it. I personally don't think any of you guys gets paid for teaching anyone how to fly RC, and, I applaud your efforts in teaching others how to fly, IF that's the way they want to learn. The simple fact is, like has been posted before, there is no longer any RIGHT or WRONG way to learn THESE DAYS. You were right 30-40 years ago. Not today.
Yes, but reality for whom jester?? Simply put, that reality that youcling tois now completely obsolete and anachronistic. IT IS NOWpossible to learn how to fly an RC aircraft by yourself and without spending a ton of money. Why can't you just swallow that fact and admit it. I personally don't think any of you guys gets paid for teaching anyone how to fly RC, and, I applaud your efforts in teaching others how to fly, IF that's the way they want to learn. The simple fact is, like has been posted before, there is no longer any RIGHT or WRONG way to learn THESE DAYS. You were right 30-40 years ago. Not today.
03-27-2013, 12:36 PM
#121
Moderator
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
You've shown both your ignorance and your dishonesty again Chucksolo69. 30-40 years ago the standard method was for the instructor to stand by the pilot and try to help him if he got in trouble. Maybe 30 years ago buddy boxes were available, but from what I hear from the old timers, they weren't the most common teaching method. That's where you are uninformed.
As for whose reality it is that working with an instructor is better than trying to go it alone, it's everyone's. It is an absolute truth, true whether you believe it or not. You continue to try and reframe the argument to have us saying that one cannot possibly learn without an instructor. That's dishonest, because no one here has said that and on one will. What I and other informed people have said is that working with an instructor is better. We say that because it is true. Yes, a guy can learn on his own, but if he has the option of working with an instructor he'll save himself time and money by doing so. If a newbie takes your advice, he'll probably spend a couple hundred dollars on a cheap plane and batteries and lots of repairs, then get frustrated and quit. That's what happens most of the time. If a newbie gets with a competent instructor, he'll get started right and he may still quit after he sees the investment it will take to get good at flying, but he probably won't leave the hobby because he's frustrated from never being able to get a single good flight in. Once you've been in the hobby a while longer and help a few newbies, you'll understand that too.
As for whose reality it is that working with an instructor is better than trying to go it alone, it's everyone's. It is an absolute truth, true whether you believe it or not. You continue to try and reframe the argument to have us saying that one cannot possibly learn without an instructor. That's dishonest, because no one here has said that and on one will. What I and other informed people have said is that working with an instructor is better. We say that because it is true. Yes, a guy can learn on his own, but if he has the option of working with an instructor he'll save himself time and money by doing so. If a newbie takes your advice, he'll probably spend a couple hundred dollars on a cheap plane and batteries and lots of repairs, then get frustrated and quit. That's what happens most of the time. If a newbie gets with a competent instructor, he'll get started right and he may still quit after he sees the investment it will take to get good at flying, but he probably won't leave the hobby because he's frustrated from never being able to get a single good flight in. Once you've been in the hobby a while longer and help a few newbies, you'll understand that too.
03-27-2013, 01:06 PM
#122
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
So by your own account, you did not tell me I couldn't learn to fly a year ago??? I beg to differ. It was you who told me I was wasting my time and money trying to learn on 3 channel foamies. No ignorance here. You are the one having trouble living in today's world. You blanket theforum with your outmoded ideals and then say that everyone is subject to them. Oh brother, get over yourself. A LOT of guys learn on their own. As for wasting time and money, that's all in your head. IT is not an absolute truth, except to you. BTW - You did say that it was not possible to learn on your own. In fact it was you who told me I wan't really flying. LOL!!
03-27-2013, 04:02 PM
#123
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RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
ORIGINAL: hugger-4641
I have NEVER charged anyone for instruction. After the first couple flights, I do ask that they help with fuel if I know they are financially able, but I have never taken money in exchange for my time.
I have NEVER charged anyone for instruction. After the first couple flights, I do ask that they help with fuel if I know they are financially able, but I have never taken money in exchange for my time.
However, formal flight instruction can be paid, if the student agrees. It all depends on how far a pilot wants to go.
AMA and club dues should, theoretically, cover the cost of flight instruction. But, advanced training is very time consuming.
The bottom-line is Intro Pilots are the only non-members allowed to fly at AMA-sanctioned airfields, with AMA-chartered clubs.
Amateur park flyers are exempt from AMA bylaws; however, the liabilities involved are in their own hands. Insurance is a necessity.
Much like full-scale aircraft .... some of us are certified .... some of us are experimental.
03-27-2013, 07:19 PM
#125
Moderator
RE: Recommendations for those new to RC Flight
To my mind, part of the club atmosphere is pilots helping each other. I came in as a student, and then a few years later I started instructing. I still will get pointers from guys who are better at a particular skill than I am, and will do what I can to help others even when it's not formally a training time. I think that for most that's part of what their dues get them- access to experienced pilots they can learn from. When I give back, I'm adding value to the club overall.