kiwibob72

If your talking a 5mtr foil, that's a pretty good size kite in 15-20mph! (I kite buggy'd for 10 years before teaching myself to fly heli's, then sold that gear to fund a nitro heli before getting into planes as well - though still fly stunt kite when the wind and weather is right)

It's nice to see a thread on your personal experiences re self teaching to fly planes, it makes good reading for those who for what ever reason, have no option but to learn on their own.

mike109

G'day Carl.

On the subject of dead stick landings - many people are very up tight about dead sticks. They don't worry me because one of the planes I learned to fly with was a Dynaflite Butterfly. It is basically a 100 inch glider wing on a very basic trainer fuselage. It had an OS 26 four stroke in it which has about as much power as a good 15 glow two stroke. I would use the motor to climb to a good height then pull it back to idle and glide around. The little four stroke would idle for ages but sometimes it would stop and I would not notice for quite a while so I almost always had to land it without the engine. This really does build up landing confidence.

More recently (about 8 years ago) I built a Sig Four Star 60 which I powered with a Saito 100 four stroke. If the Four Star series has a fault, it is a tendency to bounce on landing if you do not slow down enough. The big Saito continues to make quite a deal of thrust even when it is idling and it required patience when landing to keep it just off the ground until the nose starts to rise. It is then ready to land on all three wheels and not bounce.

Well ...

The best landing I ever did with the Four Star was when the engine tried to fall out of the plane. The mounting bolts which held the engine to the firewall came loose (these days I Locktite them) and the engine moved forward. This pulled on the control and the engine would not go below half throttle so I had to wait until it stopped before trying to land. After about 15 minutes flying around, she stopped and I did the BEST landing I had ever done.

The trick with deadsticks is to not try to turn too low or too slow. If you are low, it is best to just land straight ahead where ever you are pointing. If you can. I saw two blokes crash expensive Extra type models recently when they tried to turn close to the ground. The wing on the inside of the turn stalled and ........

And on that cheery note -

Cheers

Mike in Oz

carl24bpool

Apologies, this should read no video.

carl24bpool

Well ladies and gents, its time to post the post I never wanted to have to post but for this thread to remain as factual as possible I must swallow my pride and share todays disaster with you all. I'm sure the doubters were just waiting for this today but in my defense I would of probably done this whether it was at a club or in a field on my own.

As a lot of you can probably tell from some of my posts I'm not one that likes waiting and I tent to like to learn about things the hard way. I've been like that since I was born I'm afraid.

to start with its blowing about 20mph and gusting up to 30 today. Not ideal conditions but I would normally see them as easy for some conservative flying. Landings can be bouncy but I get it down in one piece. Except for today that is.

I was doing my normal practice of loops and rolls and a little bit of high up inverted, getting used to using the elevstor to keep it level.

Well I decided to roll into invert and lets say I was a little outside of the three mistake height, and obviously the one mistake height. I rolled into inverted and was flying into the head wind. Stupidly I pulled up instead of down and just nosed the plane right into the field. The engine was totally below ground level so that gives you an idea of the impact.

If it doesn't then these pictures will certainly give you a good idea:




The moral here is do not go getting ahead of yourself and thinking you can fly what ever you like because until you can react without having to think first then this could always happen if youre too low. So my second recommendation is to always be up hiigh unless youre prepared to lose your plane like this.

I have a video (cheap camera which still works, lol) filming on the plane which I would share but the SD card seems to have ejected in the air or in the wreckage and I can;t find it with my eyes. I'm borrowing a friends metal detector tomorrow to go and have a better look. If I find it I'll share as there will be some great footage from a goot 800 feet in the air.

On a positive note I have an identical plane that I bought on Ebay for £30 ($60) and that includes literally everything to fly except an engine. I'll strip this engine down and rebuild it. The crast has snapped the needle valve from the carb and ripped the threads out so its a new carb required at least.

So there you go guys. I taught myself to keep the plane in the air but got too cocky for my own good and had a little bump. Unfortunately the amount of cyano I would need will cost more than the plane I bought so this one was stripped and is now in the bin.

As far as re-using all the radio parts and engine does anyone have any advice on what to do to check everything over properly before using it again? I know some of you wouldn;t use any again but surely I can do if I'm not using it on a stupidly expensive plane?

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

Even experienced pilots don't fly models in high winds. It is not the winds aloft but that near the ground that causes all types of problems.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

Nobody's glad you wrecked. It's a part of the hobby. I did similar into a pond about a month ago, posted it in the crash forum.

You've learned a lesson and can move on. You have a good attitude about it.

Thoroughly disassemble and clean the engine (resist the urge to rotate the crank!) and then reassemble with a good oil. Then check for any roughness in the bearings by bolting on a prop and turning the engine over while pulling and pushing on the prop hub. These engines are amazingly durable.
The servos should be highly suspect, so do a similar test by hooking them to a different receiver and run them through the full range of motion while lightly resisting the movement with a finger. You're not trying to stall the servo, but are feeling for notchiness that would indicate some stripped gear teeth. Although servos are fairly cheap, it's still cheaper to buy a gearset and replace them.
It's not a crash, it's an 'upgrade opportunity'. Lol
Good luck.

carl24bpool

The wind was strong but I had used almost a full tank before this happened and was flying fine. It was purely pilot error on the controls.

AMA 74894

My Feedback: (1)

absolutely, myself included NO ONE wants to see this happen... and guess what?
it would have happened even if you were a club member, at an approved field, etc.
the occasional crash is part of the learning process.

THAT being said, OH MAN that is one re-kitted airplane there... I for one applaud your candor, your humorous attitude, and your stick-tuitiveness (even if that's not really a word ;D)

keep your head up, find another airplane and press on!
(make sure to range check all radio gear, check for obvious damage and replace or repair where required.)
Eddie C has you pointed in the right direction

one GREAT thing about Model Aviation... you can turn an airplane into a pile of sawdust and tiny bits..... then go home and have a beer.

try THAT in a full scale (don't really )

carl24bpool

I know nobody actually wanted me to do this. You're all great guys. I'm sure the odd guy thinks I had it coming and if you'd seen the way I was flying and the conditions I think we would all agree on this ocassion. Still you live and learn and I'm glad it wasn't my pc9.

i did do a good job of re-kitting. Lol. The engine was fully under the soil and the entire front end from mid wing forward was totally obliterated with hardly and pieces bigger than a penny. Nice job hey.

i smashed the needle valve out of the carb so I'm trying to track down a new one right now. Hopefully I can pick up my identical replacement tomorrow and carry on. I may have to refit my magnum for a day or two but ill stick to calm days with that engine.

BobFE

Carl, there are those that have crashed, those that will crash, and those that will crash again. Don't sweat it, it is part of the hobby. I did the same thing about a month ago, started a roll too low, didn't put in the right elevator to keep it level, and ran out of altitude before it got it wings level.

DO NOT USE THAT RECEIVER AGAIN!!!!! OK, I'll say that again. Do not use that receiver again! You could send it off to the manufacturer and have them test it, but it is probably easier and better to get a new one. At my old club we were standing around when all of a sudden a guy yells, "Look Out!!!" I turned and watched his Bipe crash right into the pits. He told us later that the receiver in the plane had been in another plane that had crashed. He lost all control of the bipe, it would not respond at all to his transmitter. Better safe than sorry.

OK, for the fuel questions. I always refuel before I take off. The fuel does you no good in the can. Better it is on the airplane.

Don't sweat the deadsticks. It will get annoying if you have to deadstick every time, but hey, its part of flying. I also once had to fly a plane until it ran out of fuel. The linkage came loose on the carb and it stuck at full throttle. Flew for about 15 min before the engine died. Just remember, just because the engine quit don't mean the plane will stop flying. The first reaction is to get the plane back to the field as soon as possible. What I've seen a lot of people do is get the plane back, and not realize they have too much speed and overshoot the runway. I've done that myself. Take your time and judge how high you are and how fast you are flying. Many times you can just use a slightly shorter pattern and grease it in like normal.

Finally I wanted to talk about your guy in the parachute. Remember, he will follow the wind. We had a guy at my old club that would drop a GI Joe (the old ones, bigger than barbiis) from his plane. Once he dropped it and the wind was up a bit. He was too high and we watched it sail over our heads and off into the woods. We looked for over an hour and couldn't find it. Just before all of us left for the day we took another shot at finding it. After about 45 min I caught a patch of blue out of the corner of my eye. There he was, hung up in a tree.

carl24bpool

Bob,

Like you say its always going to happen but this was a bit of a silly error really.

Although you have stated that I should defenitely not use the receiver again I have taken it apart and checked all connections and diodes to make sure nothing has broken away from the board and the antenna is still firmly fitted to the board too. I have rigged it up to all the servos involved and they all work smoothly an with good power. As it happens I've bought a new plane for peanuts and to but a new receiver would cost me more than the plane cost so I'll risk it and reuse the receiver. I don;t think I'll have any issues to be honest.

I'm quite good with deadsticks already but to be honest since using the TT GP-42 engine its been great and no more deadsticks.

I dropped the parachute man around 600 yards up wind and I was on a field that was around 500 yards long so he was out of the field up wind. I dropped him and I thought I was at about 200 feet but it seems I was more like 300 and he was carried in the strong wind right over the field and away. Next time I'm going to add lead to him to speed up his descent or wait for dead calm.

carl24bpool

Next flight

Back again guys.

following my crash I've been left with no choice but to use one of my other planes. I've won an identical ripmax trainer kit on eBay but can't collect until this Thursday now. Too long for me to be waiting for another flight, especially when it also still needs building before I fly.

So I dusted off the Seagull Spacewalker 2 and went about mounting my old Irvine 40 and all the electrical gear.

Set her up ready to fly and went to the field.

its been windy here all week and tonight was no exception. Blowing an easy 25mph with gusts to 30mph. Very windy but I'm afraid I do have a acute case of mustflyitis. It's Terminal!!!! It is for my planes anyway.

After overcoming my upside down engine issues I got her started and ready for take off. I do like the controllable rear wheel on this tail dragger. Very good for taxi manoeuvring. Very twitchy at high speed though and will take some getting used to as my first take off was quite twitchy. Wow though, she didn't need much run into that headwind and she was airborne very quickly.

First thing I notice with this plane is how responsive it is compared to a high wing trainer. It responds to even the slightest controls. I did set the throws at 150% of manuals standard sport settings. That's right between sport and aerobatic settings. Just in case i needed the extra throw when trimmed.

Next thing I noticed is the speed that she flies. I think the Irvine engine pulls harder than the TT one did in my trainer and feels much smoother so that probably adds to the speed.

i love the way this plane rolls so much easier and can climb at a much steeper rate than my trainer could. I was getting a feel for it as much as possible prior to my first landing attempt. This came sooner than expected when I dead sticked down wind. Managed my first landing but overshot my intended landing area and landed further up the field. This plane has a much higher stall speed than my ripmax so you certainly come in a little faster before flaring.

Well it turned out I had ran out of fuel. Thinking back I got carried away and the whole flight was at full throttle and the tank is also smaller. N ext flight I'm going to time flight at three quarter throttle and use that as my guide.

i refuelled and went back up. It's time I was much smoker on take off and after what, compared to my trainer, seemed like a short run I eased back and she climbed out very nicely. I tried some lops and rolls but in this wind I just focused on level flight and getting used to the way she flies.

After 6 minutes I came around to land but for some reason I couldn't throttle down less than 50%. No where near slow enough to land. Throttle was very unresponsive so I had to circle until the fuel went which took another 3 minutes or so. Landed her again quite nicely with a little bounce. It turned out the entire throttle servo had left its tray. All the screws popped out. I guess the screws used before we're bigger but I'm sure they went in tight. I'm just glad it was the throttle and not any other servo.

so first low wing flights went well. Certainly harder to handle than a trainer but not much more. I'd defenitely say less forgiving on a bad landing though as there are no sprung wheels and the wings are held in place with screws.

Next flight ill try to supply video.

VCScott

Carl, sorry to hear about your trainer, you might consider it a push forward as you seem to be advancing rapidly. Crashes are part of the hobby, especially while learning without having someone holding your hand. I consider them character builders.
I'm glad to hear you moved up your Spacewalker without much difficultly as your trainer would be holding you back before long. You might want to save the tail section and mount it on the wall as a trophy just for fun. I wish I had done that now with all my destroyed planes from the past just for the memories. About one year into the hobby I did the same low inverted pull maneuver you did with my very nice flying Godberg Super Chipmunk, so don't let it get you down to much. Skill and focus are gained from experience and constantly pushing yourself. Please keep up the diary posts, as I'm finding it very entertaining reading your story's and reliving my own experiences, I too had the servo screws come loose and it was all three servos in the tray at the same time stuck at full throttle on my chippy's maiden flight. I had to fly out the tank (about ten minutes or more) while trying to figure out how to land dead stick with just a hint of elevator function. That did raise the hair and shake the hands!
Scott

carl24bpool

Dont worry about the trainer buddy. It did its job of getting me flying without a load of expense. Ill have an identical replacement come Thursday. I'm going to use it for aerial video and dropping my parachute man. Failing that I may just sell it once built to make some money.

wow, I thought I did a good job of I building my plane. You appear to have produced a beauty of a spread with yours too. I guess you also needed a spade to get your engine back.

for now I'm rolling out of inverted flight. It's safer and costs me less height. Lol.

im going back out later in week. Ill get some footage of my landings and also some from the plane. There's some great views over the British coast and countryside from several hundred feet.

daddyrabbit1234

My Feedback: (14)

Inverted flying mishaps happen no matter how experienced a pilot may be. Here's a testament to that. Mac Hodges with his 20 foot B-29 going down. When it comes to pilot's Mac Hodges is top shelf and the absolute best of the best but even he get's bit from time to time.


http://youtu.be/Oua0ZNZKqg0

carl24bpool

Wow! He made a bit of a mess there.

My version was from a little higher and at the point of impact my plane was fully nose down at full speed. Even with his being big and foamy I bet my little Ripmax was in more pieces. lol.

BobFE

Only thing you can say after that is, "oops." Or, maybe more colorful language, but I think this is a family site.

chuckk2

By habit, I try landing as if it was going to be a dead stick. Helps to refine judgement of distance, speeds, and landing profile.

jester_s1

Now is a good time to start practicing recoveries. Start with a stall recovery- point the nose of the plane up and cut the throttle. Learn to recognize when the stall is happening and push the elevator to get back to level flight before the plane drops its nose on its own. Then do the inverted recovery where you push the elevator and roll out (essentially the second half of a roll) then work through every odd attitude you might find the plane in- pointed toward you, away from you, going left and going right, then inverted in all those positions. Work out a procedure for the smoothest and fastest way to get back to straight and level flight headed upwind. Later when you advance to aerobatic planes, your stall recovery skill will become a spin recovery, and all the others will come in handy when you make a mistake and get into some funky position that you didn't intend. Also work on flying with your wings truly level. If you are at a height of around 20 meters, you should be able to see the underside of the wing that is toward you. You can verify that your wings are level by pulling into an upline. If the plane goes straight up or very slightly right due to p factor, you are good. Level wings are the basis of every aerobatic maneuver, and even if that doesn't interest you much it makes the plane so much more predictable. I'd say flying with the wings truly level is the single most important piloting skill in RC, because everything you can possibly do in a plane depends on it.

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

My hat is off to you Carl...

Great progress and exceptional attitude...

Note for recovery from inverted flight.... The quickest way to recover will always be to use aileron and roll her upright. The only deviations from this is when your altitude is so low that the wing tip will strike the ground or the airplane is flying to slow that rolling the airplane will stall... First instinct on stick input should always push the elevator stick forward when inverted.

excellent forum string.....

carl24bpool

Thanks dude!!!

carl24bpool

The next flights:


Well I picked up my new Ripmax trainer last week and spent last night building it all up. It took around 4 hours to have it flight ready. Althouh I have been flying my low wing Spacewalker with success I still feel a trainer is good to allow me to learn the manouvers more easily as it flies slower and is a little more docile and forgiving. Not to mention that I can fit my camera to it and also my little parachute man that I drop when the kids are with me. There was no wind today so it was perfect for sky diving!!

My friend came along with his Hi Boy trainer. His cub was crashed the other day and he is working through some extensive repairs but he's doing great for a beginner.

Well some of you guys are gonna fall out with me now but I decided to revisit the old Magnup GP 40 engine and see if I could get it working. Besides my Thunder Tiger GP is awaiting a new needle valve following my recent nose dive crash and the Irvine 40 is in the Space Walker where it likes to be. I have won an OS40 and a Thunder Tiger 46 Pro on Ebay so will fit one of those when they come. Probably the TT as the ball bearing engines seem to produce noticeably more power.

Well our first site was the local beach where the tide was out giving us some room. I got a flight in but unfortunately the tide was coming in fast and I only got the one. Well I tuned the engine in the way that seems to work for me now which is to start rich and then lean it out until I get revs without and spluttering.. I know I can go leaner to max revs and back off but this engine has probably only had 5 full tanks of fuel through it so I'll keep it rich for now to prevent overheating. I'm hoping to lean it out over a few flights to reach peak performance. I know you guys said its a crap engine but I've had it since a kid from new and just need to fly it. lol. I'll get a few flights out of it and then swap it for a better engine and keep it in my office as a reminder of my attempt to fly in my youth (where I failed) and my attempt now (where I succeeded).

My flight on the beach was okay but on take off the plane felt very twitchy once off the ground and seemed to be climbing very slowly. It almost seemed like it was tail heavy but surely not with a full tank of fuel and its a fair sized tank. Anyway I got the hang of the controls and flew a few laps to get used to the trainer again. No aerobatics until I knew it was flying properly and also that I could get it back down for some checks on all the screws and control connections. The landing was okay if not a little overshot. The plane seemed to glide forever into a slight 10mph head wind. Again I'm not sure if this is because its tail heavy. What are the characteristics of a trainer on landing when tail heavy?

Eventually teh tide came in and the runway was becoming narrower and narrower so it was time to leave. The beach is a great place to fly near us buut the sand gets everywhere and you have to be so careful not to get any in the carb.

We relocated to a large field nearer to home where wee w0ould have another couple of flights each. We had little fuel between us as the local shop had ran out except for a litre of 20% which he sold me for a ridiculous price that I can usually buy half a gallon of 10% for. Still I needed to fly.

Anyway on the field I flew again and on take off it was the same again where the plane was very twitchy on take off and seemed to pitch up at the slightest little gust of head wind or even if you lifted the nose slightly it would then seem to pitch up more on its own. Is this tail heavy?

When I did my balance check I kind of guessed the points using the side windows as a guage. I marked the windows on my old plane so I knew but this time I used my memory and estiamted the 85mm back from leading edge. When I checked it it seemed okay, if not a very tiny bit tail heavy but I assumed the fuel would cancel this out even on landing with a small amount left in the tank.

What I did notice in this trainer was that the servos were all further back than they were in my original trainer. I can only assume my original had been in a crash before I bought it and was therefore repaired and servos moved perhaps to aid the COG.


Again the flight was okay and I just tried to fly it around and use it as more of a test flight again with nothing fancy, just laps and a few stalls.

Landing was again quite difficult as it just didn't seem to want to drop even at low idle and even when I cut the engine at 6 feet it still went for some distance before touching down. Its a good job this time I have a steerable nose wheel to avoid the ditch at the end of the runway.

To be honest I found it easier flying the Spacewalker the few days before as it just seems more responsive and with more power.

I'll check the COG later and see if I misjudged it. there is defenitely something a miss with the way it was flying.

AMA 74894

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Carl typically a tail heavy airplane is NOT going to fly long at all. symptoms include very sensitive ailerons, VERY sensitive elevators and generally poor / twitchy flying characteristics.
(symptoms are very similar if the CG is good, but the airplane has too much elevator and aileron throw.)
is it THIS ripmax ? (ARTF WOT)
http://www2.ripmax.net/Item.aspx?Ite...ry=010-010-020
the manual for that airplane specifies a CG 89 MM aft of the wing leading edge (with an EMPTY fuel tank)
Do yourself a favor, get a permanent marker and a ruler, mark a line 89 MM back on the lower side of the wing (one on each panel)
rule that part out first...
that is, ASSUMING that's the right ripmax trainer.. if not, post a link or description (or look in the manual if you have one )

great job getting 'er up and back again!

carl24bpool

The penny has dropped as soon as I read your post. My control throws were never set as I forgot in the rush to go and pick my friend up. The trainer is a ripmax 40 trainer and is an old model, not the wot4 as you suggested.

my elevator should be around 12mm and its probably 25 at present. Same with ailerons but should be 6mm and are probably around 12. Ill address this right away and thanks for helping me see the error of my ways.

again to all the self teachers out there it's things like this that you miss by not being at a club and having help on preflight checks so make sure you check everything. If I'd of done that on my very first flight I'd of been sure to crash.

what I thought was easing back on elevator was probably full elevator normally. No wonder it looked like it was on the verge of stall as it was climbing out.

so again if you're self teaching make sure you learn from my mistakes. Sometimes I'd be lost without e help of the guys on here.


ps AMA - I don't want you under the impression I rebuild my trainer. Lol, I'm not a magician and with all the glue in the world I'd of never got my last plane back in the air. I bought a new one and just put all the bits on it.

Thanks again for the pointer. Schoolboy error on my part.

tkline

You will probably like the TT .46 they are very well behaved and user friendly