I'm hoping to attend an AMA Expo this weekend and maybe purchasing my first airplane. From what I understand, for stability the plane should be bigger (I'm not sure how big), high wings, and dihedral. I was wondering what other good features retired newbie. Also, since I have double vision (so no depth perception) a friend suggested I paint the underside of one wing yellow and the underside of the other red. Good idea? What's the best color for the rest of the plane?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Trish

I am quite color blind for me black strips on white work for me, as for a size of planes the bigger the better. A apprentice S is a great trainer from what it looks like. Ask around the expo they will have some good advice.

A good size to start with is one that calls for a .60 size glow engine. That will get you around 70 inches of wing in a trainer, so as long as you don't let it fly away from you you'll be able to see it fine. I have issues with depth perception due to a lazy eye (never could catch a football) so I understand the concern. Your big struggle will be lining up the plane for landing approaches and judging where on the runway you are. Surprisingly though, normal flying doesn't rely much on depth perception since the distances are so far. I would not color the underside of the two wings differently. Make the top a light color and the bottom a dark color and you'll do fine. Yellow, pink, and white are good top colors, especially if you put a strip of your bottom color across the leading edge to make it easy to pick out against a light sky. Black, dark blue, red, and purple work well for bottom colors. Do a search for classic pattern (SPA planes) trim schemes to get an idea for what shapes in your trim scheme make the planes easy to see.

For plane choices, have a look at the sticky at the top of this forum titled "what's available." To get the plane and everything you'll need to go with it, expect to spend about $600 plus whatever your club dues cost.The park flyer route (like the Apprentice that Hawk131 suggested) will be about half that, but not nearly as big nor as tolerant of the wind.

Welcome to the forum Trish and the Hobby/sport. I think you will enjoy the AMA show, it is indeed a wonderful experience. I last attended two years ago.

While your concern on the depth percection thing is valid if you drive a car then you can overcome the problem with a good mentor I have worked with a number of folks with varous disabilitys and eyesight problems. The fellows who said the larger airplanes are an advantage are correct however the suggestion to color the left and right wings differently is a major mistake and this will have the effect of reducing the distance at which you can maintain orientation and is very confusing. Now making the top side of the wings and the bottom of the wings a different color (both wings) is a good idea and this will helo a lot.

Now on to airplane I believe There is only one airplane that would be the very best for you and that is the Senior Cadet from Sig manufacturing. This is a very large airplane for the engine sizes that it uses and has a span of eighty inchs a a very broad chord. It can be powered either by electric or glow engines however I prefer glow in most cases. I use one of these for most of my students and I even power it with an engine smaller than recommended which is a .35 and this is a combination that works superbly well for training.

Enjoy the show

John

The good news is that even "normal" depth-perception is very range-limited and of comparatively little use to model flyers. Witness how many fly into obstacles when they "thought I was beyond that tree".

Human stereoscopic depth-perception doesn't become really useful until objects are within a few metres of the eyes ... I forget the actual range, but it's in the region of 5 - 10 metres, I think.

Beyond that, we learn to use other visual cues which are equally available to people who have, for instance, only one eye. Severe colour-blindness could affect the interpretation of those cues.


So, I wouldn't expect your problem to hinder your flying very much.

Big, slow and dark does the trick, as far as trainers go.

I agree. Color contrast is a key ingredient..

My brother lives in your area. (You may know him) He learned on an Apprentice, and likes it, a lot.

On the color topic, at distance, your vision is mostly from the rods anyway, and they don't see color. There have been many pilots over the years who did up a plane in red and blue thinking they'd have good contrast in the air only to find that at a couple hundred feet the whole thing turned to dark grey. The image below is an example of what works well. It's a more complicated trim scheme than is necessary, but the color contrast and the placement of the colors make this plane easy to orient in any lighting and sky conditions and at any attitude.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=H.45967...93700&pid=15.1

Yup color contrast is a key ingredient but only from the top side of the airplane versus the bottom side but not a color contrast from the left side to the right side as you first mentioned Trish.

And I agree with bobbeagle on the dark colors for me on the top sides. Many of my airplanes I often cover in blacks dark blues and reds. That is quite the opposite of what most Arfs come with and white as the primary color seems to be the predominate color often with multiple fancy color striping on top this for me seems to fad to gray in the very shortest distance and most difficult to maintain orientation. Another problem with airplanes with predominate white colors are they beautifully camoflaged aginst a white cloudy sky.

I find it curious that my aircraft that are warbirds that have a camoflaged military finish have quite the opposite effect and are easier to see I suppose because the colors do tend to be darker.

John

A couple of things--non reflective surfaces are easier to see
slower models are easier to evaluate as to attitude

do yourself a favor - If you have eyesight issues - stick with models which can be flown in close to you -- slower models which are very lightly loaded and if possible use a GOOD stabilization ,on board system - to make it all easier to predict what is happening .
I went from flying for years in Pattern and IMAC models to being unable to see well enough to to fly these .
I started over - learning to fly slow indoor models and learning attitude recognition all over again.
My outdoor models are now lightly loaded , slower, yet fully aerobatic and can be flown in at lower speeds .
Trying to chase an older design which needs more speed is not a good idea -unless you just want to have a model which some one else has to fly for you.

.

Funny. You first say bigger is better with is very true then you say Apprentice S, which is small. (As opposed to tiny for something like the Champ.)
For depth perception problems I strongly recommend the RealFlight RC simulator. I certainly have never been able to get any real depth perception from it, just an idea of location from relative size. One of the models it has is the NexSTAR which is also excellent as a trainer and comes in both fuel and electric versions. Overcome the depth perception problems on the simulator and get some flight training as well. That makes transferrring to the real thing so much easier.

I have a condition called macular degeneration, and in effect only one good eye. My training took a bit longer that average, but it has not caused a real problem in flying. I echo the thought of big airplanes , but suggest that if you will be flying a club field that you consult any instructors as far as choice of equipment and airframe goes. A good instructor will help a lot in gaining the right sight pictures for flying from that field, even if there are obstacles like close in trees. If you will not be flying with an instructor, then please invest in a good simulator (perhaps even before purchasing the plane). Dont know what part of the country you are from, but unless its the deeper south you have several months to use the simulator before trying to fly a model.

I lost my vision in my left eye due to a botched cataract surgery.
It didnt seem to bother my flying at all. But then I wasn't very good in the first place.
I sure have a problem trying to solder two wires together these days though

Ok. Thanks a lot, Hawk131.

Trish

Thanks a lot for your input, jester_s1. I’ve looked now at the ~$300 Apprentice S and, for my very 1[SUP]st[/SUP] trial airplane I’m hoping for something like the $200 Hobby Zone Super Cub DSM RTF. Besides a stable plane, I will still have the Spectrum 4-channel transmitter. And for this plane, I’m not so concerned about the plane’s detailing, but just trying to make sure I can see it and my heading and attitude, etc. For now I’d like to focus on coarse but useful markings like cmdl’s here http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/at...8-IMG_0388.jpg

What gives me pause is your estimate of maybe $600 for my trial entry into RC airplanes. Besides $200 for the Supercub/transmitter, I’m trying to think of what else I need. Hopefully the wings just detach and I can transport the plane in the back of our RAV4. Must I have/build a case to protect the wings & fuselage? Must I have many spare batteries; how long can it fly on one charge? Hopefully the plane comes with a charger. What else have I not thought of?

Thanks again,
Trish

P.S. Ball park only - could you estimate the difference in wind tolerance between the Apprentice S and the Super Cub?

Tom, jester - Thanks to both of you. I have so many differing opinions now of what color scheme works for different individuals. . . . Can the Real Flight Simulator give you a sense of how visible different aircraft color schemes are at a distance?

Watch your colors it all depends on where you fly and sky conditions. Dark colored aircraft disappear below dark trees on landing and white aircraft disappear below white/grey clouds. A compromise is required especially those with sight issues Colorful leading edges (not shinny silver it only mirrors what is in front of the aircraft) and stripes ,sunbursts or light and dark on the LT/RT wing panels. I have found that my student learned twice as fast with modified ARF's or their kit built planes using these color schemes.

do yourself a favor - get a VERYlight , slow electric trainer that you can fly in close -
been there --

Thanks, John. Your point about white blending in with the clouds I sure get. However, if my plane is at right angles to me, isn't it easier at a distance to determine if my plane is banking left or banking right if the wings were at least different shades (or black vs white) – so at worst they may appear dark gray vs. light gray?

Thanks for your input, Bob. What is a good "slow" speed for a trainer? Are all trainers slow enough? What's the easiest way to find out speeds? I call up on one plane of interest, http://www.redrockethobbies.com/Hobb...htm?Click=6136 , and I don't even find stall speed or cruise speed (which is most important) in the specs. And big? I need it transportable in a RAV4 too. Is around 4 feet wing span & fuselage length long enough? Would 5 feet span/length make a huge difference as far as my being able to discern what's happening when my plane is in flight?

Thank you for your help.

Trish

Trish - Any vetted trainer is slow enough. I doubt anyone knows exact speeds - it's not like we stand around with radar guns (although I've had a few planes I'd have like to know the speed of).

I'm guessing most fly well as low as 25 mph which is pretty slow for a plane and they land a lot slower than that. Top speed for most trainers is going to be around 60 mphish.

I have orientation problems which is different than depth perception or color blindness. The easiest plane I've ever had to keep oriented is my stik which has a white wing and a black wing. Doesn't matter what the weather is or what the sky looks like.

I've uploaded several files of the plane in various attitudes and in all it's pretty easy to tell what's going on.

Trish - I used to have a Fiat X1/9 and it's about the smallest car imaginable. I could fit a 5' plane into it (but not with a passenger).

Thank you for your input, rmh. “Lightly loaded” is a new criterion to me, but others have also suggested I look for “slow”. I have no interest in flying indoors, so I’d like to find something fast enough to be accepted at a family-oriented club field. As I mentioned to one of the other forum members, I don’t know what is slow enough and I don’t even know the easiest way to find the speed (stall or cruise?) of particular models. E.g., when I pull up the specs on one of my candidate planes (click on "Technical Specs" at http://www.redrockethobbies.com/Hobb...htm?Click=6136 ), the Hobby Zone Super Cub DSM RTF, there’s no mention of speed. Among the standard RTF trainers now found in hobby stores, are there some which you feel would be good for me from the standpoint of loading and speed?

Thank you again, rmh.

Trish

Yellow and Black or Yellow and any other of the DARK colors work well. fluorescent green is the most visible color but is an unstable color in sun light IE fades.

Second that. Piano keys 4" wide are nice. A strip of similar size on top close to the wing tips helps detect banking. The Apprentice is my favorite electric trainer but I would ask you to consider a Sig LT 40 Kadet, it has a 72 inch wing span and can still "get little" in a HURRY!

Trish - Any traditional trainers is as I said, vetted, and are all good planes.

Any version of the Sig Kadet.
Any Hobby Lobby Telemaster.

Great Planes and Tower (both part of the Hobbico mafia) have some trainers that have been around for years.

If you want your plane to fly slower then build lightly, use lightweight equipment and use an engine in the lower range of what is recommended. If you still want power then you get a performance engine (not my actual recommendation but it gives a better power to weight ratio thus lower weight without giving up speed and climb).

Assuming you have pretty normal reflexes then don't worry about the speed so much. And please don't psych yourself out. The most important thing you can do is learn why an airplane flies. Too many people don't learn because they don't understand the basic aerodynamics. They think "up elevator" is what makes a plane go up and are always stalling into lower and lower altitudes.

Thanks for your response, rgburril. I dunno if this is right for me, especially given my visual problems. I just read “One other alert on this puppie, its slightly small so don't fly out too far even over 12 seconds one direction with any speed and makes a tiny target for my older eyes, simply keep it in a good visual range, nearly lost mine on an early maiden turning abit late but caught a view of the wings as it turned and able to bring her back, just be aware.“ Between this (which sounds like it requires a bit of maneuvering at least every 12 seconds) and my visual problems and my 0 experience, I’m thinking this may be a fun plane for me a little later, but not just yet. I’d be too nervous!

Trish