Your summation was right to the point. Your were both honest and factual in your assesment.
The group of modelers I now fly with spend the majority of there time not flying but socializing.
I never see these individuals flying during the work week only on weekends.

He forgot to mention arrogant, self-centered and egotistic.

The rules and all the other stuff is what keeps the socially retarded from being themselves at a flying field.

Gee, Al, we're all impressed that you soloed quicker than anybody in 1962. I'm still trying to figure out what that has to do with the discussion at hand, but you go, guy. However, do not presume to know what we're thinking. I've been a cop for 27 years, which gives one a prima facia degree in psychotomy. And I still can't tell what someone is REALLY thinking, even face-to-face.

Yes, some "clubbers" are more interested in the social aspects of the hobby. Here's where you'll find the compulsory types, who feel the need to make unecessary rules and regulations. These are the guys you're talking about. Personally, I too abhor such people. I've been a member of four different clubs, and fortunately have seen only a few of these. But I will take a dozen of them over one "free spirit" type who thinks rules are for sheep and don't apply to him. The compulsory guy can be dealt with verbally; the other clown usually requires more stringent action, and that is generally undesirable.

So, if the above musings make me arrogant, egotistical, self-centered, whatever, to some folks; so be it. But, as I've said before, your (or anyone's) right to be a jerk ends with my right to pursue my hobby free of unnecessary hazard. And again, don't presume to know my character. You don't have a clue about me.

I really think you and many of the people on this forum really need some help with your reading and thinking skills. I don't know what you think I said, but you ought to rethink it. I guess I can blame this on American education, because you sound like you just got off the short bus. Incidentally, being a former cop, I bet they use you as the enforcer to knock together heads when someone steps out of line. I'm glad I don't belong to any clubs to have to suffer the companionship of people like you.

Ciao,

Eagle Al

Al, if everyone here has such problems with the way they think, why are you here antagonizing everyone. Seems you need to reread and understand this:

Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post. We encourage the free flow of your ideas, but believe that they can be communicated (and received) much more effectively if you keep things civil. If you have to vent, take it offline. We carefully monitor posts and will ban individuals who engage in offensive conduct within the forums. Thanks.

Al - I've read all your postings and am left with one question: Why is someone who is so independent, high and mighty bothering with posting to discussion groups full of ignorant piss ants needing help? Or is this the only social interaction you get? I'm glad I don't know many men your age (65+ by my math) that are as belligerent as you - makes it tough to respect your elders.

Get a life!

Let's see: first we're a 40+ year military/test pilot, AND we're now a former cop too? What's next week- you were also a brigadier admiral in the Mexican navy?

Keep flinging the BS, Al; you're beginning to become entertaining.

aggie84,
Take it easy on poor Eagle Al. He's just jealous of us young folks. (I'll be 60 in Sept) hee hee

Steve

Absolutely!
That's where he got his mexicans to work his farm!!!

I'll bet everyone here is about 16 years old... At least that how we all read....

Broken,
I'm 16 at heart. (wish the rest of me was in 16 year old condition)

Steve[sm=lol.gif]

Steve, giving the devil his due, I think Al was referring to YOUR statement >>>> "I've been a cop for 27 years, which gives one a prima facia degree in psychotomy..."<<<< when he replied to your post with his >>>"Incidentally, being a former cop, I bet they use you as the enforcer...." <<<<<<<

Anyway, that is how I read those posts.

No matter how you look at it, any social R/C organization needs some sort of rules or guidelines. Having been around R/C hydroplanes for over 20 years, I've seen safety rules save several drivers AND SPECTATORS from SERIOUS injury on several occassions. Granted, it's a very different environment from the flying field, but a 5 pound plane doing 50+ is no different from a 15 pound scale hydro doing 50+ if it's out of control, EITHER ONE CAN BE DEADLY. With all due respect to Al and the rest of the "learn it on your own" crowd, when I finish building my "plan built" modified Kadet Jr, I will be heading for one of the local flying clubs to find a good instructor. I'm fortunate, having at least five fields and clubs within 30 minutes of the house. Now, if only I wasn't working so darned much overtime.......................................... ..........

Well, Horrace, I'm trying to see how one could get the impression I'm no longer in the profession from the statement "I have been..."

Perhaps.

However, I would wager that the real answer is old Al is a wanna-be warrior with delusions of grandeur, and gets vicarious thrills through his computer.

Give him his due? Please... he's a troll, pure and simple.

Don't you know what FORUM stands for? F***ed-up Old R/C Universe Members!




All in fun, guys!

Interesting thought, this was explored at my club. I protested ... there's no way I'm going to stick a non-scale marking on my scale aircraft....

Then how about a special flag or small ribbon on the transmitter.....

I wouldn't like to be asked to put a sticker on my planes either. Maybe a club "Wings Pin" for pilots who have been checked out would be an accecptable alternative.

Lets be creative-

"A remove before flight" style tag would be fine- The point is- You want to be able to identify people or planes who have not been checked out by a member of the club.

What about a sticker on the transmitter? Small, inconspicuous, but effective for the same purpose. That way you would only need one sticker per member! Maybe even a special colored tx flag--instead of red, gold or whatever. Surely those are made???

We use these, worn on jacket or hat:


As for identifying an ""inspected" plane, that is quite problematic. What if the aircraft was modified since the inspection.

At many contests I frequent, a written declaration including a list of inspection "points" etc. is all that is required.

Keep in mind this is mostly for newbies- Your more experienced club members will be able to govern themselves as requested-

Some new fliers show up with little experience...

I think I'll put a "Remove Before Flight" ribbon on my head......

I haven't read all the posts, so it may have been said already, but if you don't impose rules on yourself, then somebody (mostly the government) will step in and impose them on you, and the result isn't always (or often) what you would wish.

Regrettably, or maybe not so, that's what life is about; people imposing their wills and values on others. Toe the line, or some AH will step in and force you to do so.

Having said that, I'm not for the drill sergeant approach, but as with any activity there must be a degree of self control/discipline. Nor am I for there being somebody at the field wielding the big stick, but surely every club/organization has a safety officer who can step in if things get a little out of hand. It's difficult to argue with that approach. The alternative is if a few flyers on the day see things they're not happy with, then they approach the offender/s with a low key counselling session. There are a number of ways to skin a cat, and for a club executive, it may be a fine line between 'assisting' and frightening off a new, if a little recalcitrant, member.

I hear what you say Eagle Al, and whilst I don't have an illustrious military flying background to fall back on, I do have 30 years flying experience, over 20 of that on commercial jets, and am a firm believer in the above philosophy; discipline yourself or somebody else will. If you operate outside the rules in civil aviation retribution is swift and hard, at least in this country.

As for teaching yourself to fly full scale, I don't agree. There would be very few, if any, places in the world where the instructor would take off and land only. Like so many things in life, flying is based on the "monkey see, monkey do" philosophy. You see it demonstrated and then try it for yourself; advanced aerobatics may be an exception, but there are a number of dual seat aerobatic aircraft so that the principle may be valid there also.

EA what is/was seen as the "right stuff" in military aviation is MOST DEFINITELY not the "right (or desired) stuff" in civil aviation, and I contend that the attitudes one should engender in model flying in a club or group environment are closer to those one would aspire to in civil aviation.

I agree with Broken's post above. This is essentially for newcomers to the hobby, whose enthusiasm may outweigh their ability and skill, and one would hope that those longer term participants are more than capable of regulating themselves without recourse to 'counselling' sessions by the club executive. Incidentally, I am not part of any club executive.

I don't see much, or even anything, wrong with Fastsky's club's requirements; it seems to me to be no more than formalising normal standards with documentation so there can be no conflict in the future about requirements, stated or otherwise. An organization has the right to determine a member's level of ability before letting them loose.

A similar thread ran a while on these forums some time back, maybe a year or more, regarding drinking alcohol whilst at the field. A club most definitely has the right to stop such activity...after all it's their insurance and reputation. Imagine yourself as the club president being called to give evidence where an out of control model, flown by an out of control (on alcohol) flyer, struck and killed a child. May be difficult to explain why, as club president, you didn't control such activities. That's not much different from letting just anybody loose with little or no experience to do a similar thing but not alcohol affected.

I also can't help but think there may be a little 'trolling' going on in a couple of the above posts.

Al, it seems that on this thread you seem to have a bit of a credibility problem. What aircraft did you fly and in what units? We may have some common acquaintances. That being the case perhaps I could verify at least some of your credentials.

jess