I am in the process of building a flight box and have some questions about a power panel. I want to decide and order it before I start on the flight box so that I know it will fit in the cover for the battery compartment. My questions are simply put: First, what is the best power panel out there? Second, what power panel gives you the most bang for your buck? I am planning, for now to run a starter, and possibly a glow driver. This is my next question: Do you recommend a glow driver which connects to the power panel, or a glow driver which uses a rechargeable battery? (I have one which uses a rechargeable battery, but did not know whether I should upgrade.) [sm=idea.gif]I have looked at the MPI super panel and I see where you hook up your starter and your glow driver, but for the life of me I cannot see where you hook up the charger for your battery. Am I missing something? Also, for now I am going to keep using the Hobbico hand fuel pump which I have (because of economics)[sm=drowning.gif], but in the future I will probably want to go to an electric pump.

You don't really need a power panel if you cannot afford one right now. If you are going to use a motorcycle battery or something like that, you can certainly run the electric starter from that. You can also get a rechargeable glo starter that is self contained, I have two of them, keep one in the trickle charger, but one with a full charge will last you a long time. You can also build one yourself if you are so inclined. You can get a good single cell ni-cad pretty much make your own with parts from your LHS. That's just about all you really need to get going, and you don't really need an electric starter, a chicken stick will do just fine.

Mike,

For charging the battery via the glow panel, they usually have a set of plugs that fit the connectors where the start goes and you hook the charge to them. That set of connections is direct to the battery. My panel also does glow driver and fuel pump. I used to use the glow driver and found that I did have to keep the field box fairly close to the plane, hence close to the prop plus was always concerned that the wire to the panel glow driver was going to get sucked into the prop.

I still use the starter and fuel pump by very rarely do I use the glow driver. I have remote glow drivers for that. I use the one on the power panel if the remote one goes dead. The Hobbico panels, which is what I use also come with a glow plug built into the panel that is used to charge remote glow plug drivers which I use often for myself and other club members.

I have a flight box that was handed down to me. It has a control panel on it for starter, fuel pump and glow plug. Honestly I never use it.

1. Not to argue with Dick, because he has forgotten more than I will ever know about RC stuff, but I would get a starter. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to get a motor going when you don't have one. It just makes life more simple. The Hobbico starter/12 volt battery set up is great. Essentially a cordless starter that is easy to recharge and easy to care for. I tried to go the motorcycle battery route and frankly more of a pita than I want to deal with.

2. As far as the glow driver, in my opinion, if you have a rechargable glow driver, you DID upgrade. They are so much more handy than having one anchored to you're flight box I would never go back.

3. I hand crank fuel because A. I have the apparatus, and B. pumping the fuel is so quick, I can't imagine a good reason to have one more piece of electronic doo hickey to fail.

Keeping it simple to me is what it's all about.

Tom

I'd say save your money by not buying the power panel and put it towards a good starter and battery pack. The best most powerful (room to grow into big engines) is the Sullivan Dynatron and the Sullivan battery pack. The Hobbico battery pack doesn't have the power to start engines much larger than a 60. The Sullivan pack uses NiCads that you choose (12) and has a nominal 14.4 volts. Put some high ma rated NiCads in it and you can start large 4 strokes and small to mid size gas engines. I can start my Brisson 4.8 twin with mine. You can continue to use your NiCad glow starter. It's more flexible anyway.

Rich

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Wyoming Wind Festival Jan 1 to Dec 31

Michael-

I guess I will take the contrarian view. I have a field box with power panel and a rechargeable glow driver. I never use the rechargeable one. The main reason is it is kind of a pain to make sure that it is fully charged. With the power panel, I can always tell by looking at the meter to make sure I am getting adequate power to the glow plug and I can adjust the juice as necessary. I have a basic Tower Hobbies power panel, which is about as good a deal as anyone else has.

As someone else is mentioned, you charge the field box battery through the jacks for the 12V starter. I have a couple spare banana plugs that I stick in and then I clip my 12V charger to the plugs.

-Scott

P.S. This advice is from one lawyer to another, so take it with a grain of salt.

I tend to agree with staggerwing. The cords are always in the way. I do have the new RCATS glow ignitor and really like it but you don't need to be that fancy. Get some form of metered ignitor. Hand pumping fuel is fine for the small amount that you will be doing. A good high torque starter like staggerwing mentioned, or another brand, if you are eventually going over 60 size engines. This will also leave more room in your box for needed items and keep the weight down. I do have a corded starter and electric pump but they came with my used field box when I bought it along with a bunch of other stuff and was essentially free. I am too cheap to replace free stuff with the exception of the glow ignitor which I needed a new one of anyway and just went for what looked like the best.

About the only time I use the glow ignitor off the power panel these days is if my "Hot Shot" battery is dead [] (forgot to charge after the winter ) or if I am starting an inverted engine. I find an inverted engine frequently requires a bit more juice than a "Hot Shot" can provide to keep the plug hot enough.

As many have already stated power panels usually end up a waste of money and an undeniable safety hazard when the panel driver is used.

A panel driver in addition to the safety hazard of the extra cable that always wants to be in the path of the prop, that has a manual current adjustment is an additional hazard to your wallet. You see most folk when experiancing a balky engine will keep upping the current just a bit and this invariably results in many wasted plug burnouts. Worse than this, The plug heat we use both by plug design and current supplied is the only way we have to control the ignition timing. Now additional plug heat will have the effect of advancing the timing, But for easy starting we need to retard the timing a bit. This applies to all internal combustion reciprocating engines.

As far as fuel pumps go you have already upgraded. Manual pumps are far, far more reliable and have the advantage of being able to count the cranks when fueling and by counting when defueling you will know exactly how much you have used. The very best arrangement is a manual strapped to to a metal gallon can.

I use only the very cheapest hobbico starters in a portable arrangement with 14 Nimh 3000's for a total of 16.8 volts and this handles very large engines with ease as well as very small engines without the loss of RPM of the geared types (not desirable for small engines). There are many portable setups on the market that work fine.

Most who have tried severing the umbilical cords completely will never go back to the panel.

Oh by the way this link is to the very best ignitor avaliable Is does have a short cord but does not go to the field box that is always in the wrong place. It has four cells and circuits that sense the plug resistance automaticlly and instantly adjust current to clear a fouled plug and back off instantly, will never waste your plugs for you. It also shuts it self off.

http://www.darrolcady.com/Accessorie...Pro-driver-pic

John

I think you have me convinced. [sm=thumbup.gif]I really do like my hand operated pump - and you're right, it doesn't take long to fill the tank on a Sig Kadet LT-40. Also, I was concerned about the wires running to a glow ignitor fed off a power panel. I think what I am going to do is place a positive and negative female connection for my starter in the top of the compartment over the battery. I assume you can charge the battery back through those same connections. Now, I have another question: [sm=confused.gif] Does anybody know where I can go to get banana plugs on my battery charger (I assume they will also carry female receptacles for banana plugs.).

Radio shack has all of the plugs (male and female) that you'll need. Yes, you sure can just put a pair of female banana jacks on the top of your battery compartment--and use your starter as well as charge back through them. Just make sure you use at a minimum 14 gauge wire to connect the jacks to the battery, and better yet use 12 gauge! I have a hobbico power panel in my box (with starter jacks) and I too ran another set of jacks straight off of the battery. That way I can be using my field charger on one set, and my starter on the other set. I also use the electric fuel pump feature of the power panel, but never use the glow clip at the field. A good use for the glow clip off of the power panel is when you are first breaking in an engine on the bench, and you have it real rich and need to keep a little heat on the plug to keep it running--this is the ONLY thing I use my glow clip for. For all starting purposes, I use the rechargeable for the same reasons as listed above! I think my next field box type purchase may very well be a self-contained battery for my starter so that I won't have any wires anywhere when starting my engines! Also, it will make it much easier to start a dead engine on the runway! If a starter is the only thing you'll be using your 12 V for, then you might think about going that direction!

Be sure to color code your jacks for polarity. Usually red for positive and black for ground. This will keep you from having "entertaining" fireworks.

Hobbico makes a "heavy duty" starter for a couple of extra bucks that is suppose to start anything up to a 1.80. I wouldn't go as far as to call it a heavy duty starter, one of these days I will lay out the $ for a sullivan. But it will start my 1.20 four-stroke and G23 gasser with out a lot of greif.

I actually bought that starter and beleive it or not it will turn over my OS160FX (brand new) until I put on the glow driver. Then it will turn it over only if I "help" it. That's with a fully charged 12v powermaster gel cell

Then I discovered that the OS160FX starts most everytime on the first flip. So I now have a pretty good starter for turning over my YS110 and OS91FS engine.

Down through post 14 and there are many ideas. Like I tell beginners and wanna'-bees, ask 10 RCers the same question and get at least 12 different answers. However that is just fine as it shows that so many things work and the individual can usually tailor whatever to his own personal desires. A good thing!

Personally I am a proponent of the Power Panel Glow Driver. I started out that way back when the current items were not available, back when we used the old dry-cell telephone batteries and alligator clips.
Then in the '70s when I was into pylon racing, the PP Glow driver offered a much better way to get rid of a flooded engine on the starting line than a 1.5 volt batt. I still run both inverted and upright engines, and special use hot and cold plugs, so having the extra push to the plug when it is needed seems to help, if nothing else I think it does.[8D]

I have tried both ways, but the PP is MY way. Yes, there is a cord there, however with reasonable care it can be kept out of the way, In all these years I have not got one into the prop yet. (Now I will have to take extra care as bragging usually turns the trend around. ) I do keep a DuBro self contained Glow igniter in the box for back-up. I use the one for a 1.5 V D cell. Charging is simply replacing the cell.

In wiring up the system, I placed two nut/bolts in the system for the Charger Clips to charge the batt. along with an old slide switch on one leg. Keeps the bolts from getting shorted. I first used M/C batts then switched to gel-cell batts as I had two units that lasted for TWENTY+ years.
Now I use the small M/cycle 12 wet cells as I have several that were given to me by my stepson who works in package testing. I find them A-OK as they only need a 2-hour charge depending on usage, along with a check of the water about once a month. They're better now than way back before dirt!

For fueling the best way I know -- and I tried many -- is the Dave Brown Six-Shooter system. Couple the DB to DuBro's can-top fittings and there are no problems. They seem to last forever. I have no use for electric pumps, however I have not tried one for over 20 years so observing at the field, they also do seem to be better now than the Instant-Leaks way back then. You can see that when I find something that works for me, I hang on to it!

As for starters, there seems to be all kinds. Except for fast-fliers with small props or old worn-out engines on some old beaters, I seldom use Starters. Choke, or push fuel to those I can't choke by using filler tube while blocking pressure line, flip a couple times, flip on glow driver, rotate prop until a "Bump", flip and engine is running. I use a glove for .75 or larger glow (I sand back of props so no razor edges) and gassers. Sullivan works for me when I need it.

So this is just a kind of case-history for you to apply to your data-bank and hopefully you will find those items that work as well for you as mine do for me.

I use the $20 Hanger 9 panel, and I like it a lot. I have a 12v gel-cell inside my field box, and it powers everything but the fuel pump..also use an older corded hobbico starter. I don't have a problem with cords in the prop, but I always put my box a couple of inches from one wingtip (usually the right) and make sure the glow cord is routed well downstream of the prop. I like it better because I only have 1 battery to charge-the 12v gel cell- and I usually only charge it once a month. There's a "hot shot" in my field box, i just never use it- i usually grab the corded one. Not knocking anyone else, but that's what I like. People at the field I fly at are split about 50-50 on using hot shots and corded ignitors. There's guys with chicken sticks and hot shots, and guys with super-dressed out field boxes, and everything in between.

As far as the fuel pump goes, I use a manual six-shooter, and on my stuff it only takes a few seconds to fill or empty..so I don't see why I should spend more on an electric pump. But I do like my power panel, battery, and field box; it made my operation a heckuva lot simpler to operate.

Bruce--good point. The binding posts that I bought at Radio Shack were already colored--one red and one black. Take care to hook the black to the - battery post, and the red to the +, and you should be fine! As far as electric vs. hand, I don't see much difference on either side of the issue--it's all personal preferece. I can hand pump about as fast as my electric pump can pump. In the past year, I've seen two 14 dollar hand pumps go bad (one of my brothers, and one of mine). I've seen one 15 dollar hobbico electric pump go bad, and now have a 14 dollar sullivan direct drive electric pump. The pumps are about the same price--electric or hand, and seem to last about the same to me. I keep a hand pump for a backup--that is the only advice I can give you if you go electric on the pump--(also have a hand pump with you). Nothing worse than a bad pump to ruin your day!

I have a large syringe that I got at the LHS as a backup. It is also graduated so if I want to know how much fuel was left, it will tell me exactly.