When I bought the Hanger 9 ARF Mustang, my Fuse was badly wrinkled near the tail. I hit the Fuse with the Heat Gun, the Ultra-Kote pulled from the frame, and the covering seperated from the other covering.

I bought another Fuse due to I didn't want to patch a new plane, and the second Fuse was perfect... I only had to heat it a little to get the wrinkles out.

Yesterday, I just got my PNP Cub from Hanger 9... and guess what? The same thing happened, this time I had to patch it under the elevator... and my rudder has wrinkles that don't want to come out, I'm afraid of over heating it if you all know what I mean.

What is going on... is it that these ARF's and PNP Planes are cheap with the covering? It seems that they don't have enough covering to overlap. Apply heat and it pulls apart.

Is it what I'm doing... or am I right? I have to buy more Cub decals for the rudder because I baked the Cub emblem on the tail. [:@]


Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

Luftwaffe,
It's actually a little bit of both problems. It's partly the way the planes are covered, and it's also partly the way you are trying to shrink the covering. When you get an ARF in before you put heat to the covering you need to go over ALL of the edges and seams with a covering iron to ensure that they are completely sealed before you try to shrink the covering. If you don't do this the covering will pull away from these areas as the covering starts to shrink.

The other part of the problem is the ARF itself. Many times these will get put together in a hurry and the person making the ARF doesn't seal down the edges well enough. Another problem with ARF is the climate conditions during shipping can cause covering to loosen or sag.

Hope this helps

Ken

And to repeat his excellent post:


This is a MUST before you use the heat gun.

Carl Goldberg has the following in Big Print under Important Information : "Be sure to seal the edges down first so that you do not cause the covering to shrink and expose areas of wood." I always seal the edges first before removing any wrinkles and it has always worked for me. I have done this with Goldberg, SIG, H9, Great Planes and every other brand of ARF I've assembled. Try sealing the edges first and maybe even using your iron instead of your heat gun, that will give a much more controlled shrink. Also a heat gun will cook most decals so working around them with the iron is safer, touching them with an iron will melt them. Hope this helps. Best of luck.

Yes Ken thanks, gosh darn it! I guess I'm not the first to patch a brand new plane before its first flight. What a bumber! Well, the patch is some what hidden under the elevator where the rudder and elevator push rods come out. At least it's not right out in the open. I can't buy just another Fuse on the Cub, and I don't feel like re-covering the whole fuse, so I'll live and learn from this.

I'll will remember to use the Iron first next time. []


Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

Even after you get the seams sealed, point the heat gun away from the seam when shrinking. If the seam gets too hot it will separate even if you sealed it with an iron.

It sounds like I'm not the only problem with this issue. Hey, at least it's only one patch. I guess our Ultra is tempermental?


Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

You may wish that they would add a 1/4 inch on every overlap of a seam and it doesn't seem like that much to us but to them all they see is maybe 10 seems on each plane and a 1000 plane order. That adds up in a hurry to a lot of yardage and cuts into the minimal profit they make in China. In mass production where EVERY dab of glue is accounted for it all adds up.

This brings up one of my BIGGEST pet peeves with ARF's. This applies to EVERY ARF I have had, whether is was one that I purchased for myself, a review that I have done, or an ARF for a fellow flyer....... Would it hurt to put in a small (1'x1') square of each color covering that is on the plane in the box with the ARF??? Come on, bumps and bruises happen out there in the real world and we need to make repairs. It's frustrating to have to break down and buy an entire roll of covering when you only need to patch a small hole. Yes, I know that some will point out the money involved on the manufacturers part. And that they WANT us to spend more money to buy covering. But it's still very aggrevating none the less. Or even worse, what about those oddball coverings on some of these ARF's these days that you can't even find the same covering to put on a repair?

Ok, now that is off my chest. thank all for letting me vent.

Ken

It kind of makes you want to go kit. Ken, you can vent anytime my friend. I believe they could glue the joints a little better and or improve the hardware. I wonder if it's because they think people who are in this hobby has a unlimited income? Or is it they don't care?

I think it's the later... as long as we keep buying, they'll cut corners any way they can. [&:] Just taking a wild guess to what it looks like to me.



It's really sad. I too payed for replacement Ulta for both planes. Gee, I could have bought another plane if it was Ultra was included in my other ARF's.



Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

Now I'm not complaining about the actual quality of the construction on all ARF's. I've reviewed a few ARF's that some outstanding quality in their builds, definitely better than the majority of people can build. I know that not all are like this and that there is plenty of junk out there, but there is also some great quality planes available too.

Ken

Forget the covering ...give me properly glued landing blocks.

Well I'm afraid that the only way to be assured of this is to actually build the plane yourself!!!

Ken

Ive come to realize that. Im afraid when i come to acutally build my first kit...im gonna go so glue crazy...ill be building a car with wings on it it'll be so heavy.

You don't have to go "glue crazy" to get a strong build. Many begginer builders will make that mistake and often take the "more is better" route when applying glue. Learning and practicing good building techniques will result in a much stronger build than just adding more glue will!!!

Ken

tight joints and proper re-inforcement are stronger that gobs of glue.heavy does not make strength or a good flyer

It was a joke!

QUestion..when reinforcing an arf through out the fuselage(other than the landing gear area-thinned epoxy) is it enough to use titebond to make stronger?

That would depend on what you are trying to reenforce on the plane. Some areas may require epoxy, some may require tri-stock reenforement, some could use Titebond, and others may just need a little extra CA. It's really hard to generalize and say that you can use Titebond to reenforce everything.

Ken

which titebond?there are 3 formulas now.1 and 2 would be okay but three needs to be applied between the parts and clamped for a strong joint.

I just looked...I have Formula #3

I like ARF's but there quality is a point of frustration sometimes. I have had particularily bad luck with several Hanger 9 products lately with (hot)glue joint failures. To include the landing gear block on my FuntanaX 100 and the firewall on my Spitfire 60. The covering on 95% of these ARFs will need some work after opening the box to find what the wrinkle gremlins have been up to. So, I guess I have just gotten to the point where I expect to have to do this every time... Hey it's still easier than covering the whole plane. I have kit built a few planes now and I can say they all flew and have not had these problems... also the satisfaction of flying a plane that you build from the ground up can never be matched by the maidening of any ARF, I don't care if it's a Chip Hyde design Prototype that no one else in the R/C world has ever seen before. If you build it, it just means more to you to see it fly.

Here are a few threads that discuss these problems and some people's creative fixes:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5974744/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5777028/tm.htm

So Mr67Stang, patches on ARF's seems to be normal? You are right, we have to check all the glue joints, and re-enforce the landing gear, and check all the bolts and screws etc.

It seems that Hanger 9 has the best glued joints along with Sig... but I'm afraid Hanger 9 is starting to slack in quality. I'm glad I can use the hardware, but I have used my own at times. Like the wheel collers etc. Sometimes I strip the hex screw.[:@]

My hanger 9's fly great... dispite Ultra-Kote issues. I already have a 23 Goldberg Cub that I need to Restore... I might recover the hanger 9 .46 Cub. I noticed that they were cheap with the glue inside the Cub. I plan on puting a small bead of AP on all the joints inside the plane.

I'm wondering if ARF's need so much work to fly safely, that building a kit would be more practical. It seems that the words ARF doesn't mean Almost Ready to Fly anymore.

I'm going to let Horizon Hobby know that the company needs better quality control... but I doubt that one voice in the matter will make any difference.

But I'm still going to do my part.


Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

I own 2 ARFs , Hanger 9 Twist and a Greatplanes .60 SkyBolt . Both have been of very good quality and I like the SkyBolt so much, have a second one sitting in the box. This plane is becoming one of my favorites. And it weighs at least a pound lighter than the kit.
The Twist I use to learn3D on and just go nuts with sometimes, If I smuck it , it is cheaply replaced. For the money , it a good deal and the ARF is not bad.

Arfs are O.K , you get what you pay for. My kit builds are stronger and a tad heavier, because of the epoxy and extra reinforcing I do, and believe the kit built planes are just better all around.

I'm starting to believe you're right. []




Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

Just remember, the first word for A.R.F. is ALMOST. I own a few of them, and every one has needed the hinges remounted in a straight line, or the bulkheads reattached with real glue, or the wing saddle reworked so it actually supported the wing, or the vertical stab re-glued so it was actually vertical, or something else.
I look at all of them now as if my idiot brother had assembled them in a half-hearted manner, and it's my job to find the places where he got lazy.