I've trained on an Avistar (and love the plane!), but I want something more aerobatic, low wing, and symetrical wing. I've pretty much settled on the Goldberg Tiger II or the Tiger 60.

- Should a second plane stay in the 40 size, or is it ok to move up to the 60?

- What are the pros and cons of choosing one over the other for a second plane?

- Does a 60 require a much larger take off, landing, and general flying area?

Thanks,
Doug

Nice choice on the Tiger 2/Tiger 60 as a second plane. The only significant challenge that moving up to .60-sized aircraft should present you with is trying to get a larger aircraft packed up into your car.

Larger planes are more stable and easier to see. There is no other difference from an operational standpoint. A lot of pilots stay with .40-sized airframes so they can reuse the engine from their trainer. If you're planning on keeping your Avistar running so you can fly them both, then this is also a non-issue.

Good luck and good shopping.

my second was a 4* 60 no troubles adapting to it.....

Definitely a 60 size. Big Ed has the right choices too. I still have my Tiger 60 and still fly it after all these years, it was my second plane. At first, it was a tad bit intimidating, but I flew the first few flights with my instructor to build some confidence, but after those two or three flights, I was on my own and having a grand time.

You can see what it is doing much better than a smaller plane, and it handles a bit more predictable. Rolls are nice, easy, and can be set up to be fast or slow with those pretty slow rolls. Other maneuvers are just as nice and are visible.

That's the key with larger aircraft, visibility. You learn or enhance your training much better when you can see the plane doing what you control it to do. As an example, I really improved landings with my Tiger 60 because I was able to bring it in relatively slow, and then when pulling in a flare to land, I was able to see the plane flare and then judge if I had to much or to little elevator for a smooth three point landing. Then, eventually, after doing this often enough, it just became automatic. Landings were much smoother and looked really pretty.

The 60 size will take off and land in the same area you had your Avastar flying in. If set up right, add throttle slowly then it will just about lift off by itself. Landings are a bit longer as they will be with any of that type of aircraft, it's not a trainer, so you will have to learn to come in a bit faster with it, but that's not a big deal. You just adjust your regular landing pattern and fly it accordingly.

Go for the 60 size. Mine now has a Super Tigre 75 with a tuned pipe. It used to have an OS 61 SF which needed bearings replace, so I bought the Super Tigre. Good choice. Lots of power and good control.

Good luck.

DS.

The choice is yours. You'll find no problem adapting.

But something else to think about is getting an OS 91 for that Tiger 60.

Then you'll have a nice 4-stroke for your third plane - Like an Extra 300 or a nice Bipe.

Yeah, good point, Mike. The way the Goldberg ARF's are coming out now, if he in fact decides to get an ARF, they have been coming out somewhat tail heavy. Even the kits are somewhat tail heavy. I've written several posts about my Tiger 120 (not the subject of this particular string, but it applies) and the fact that I needed over a a pound of lead in the nose to meet the CG requirements, and that was with an OS 1.20 AX up front.

A friend built a Tiger 60 and was totally disappointed to have to add a lot of nose weight to get it to meet the CG. And what was with my old OS 61 SF. I think the larger engine is a much better idea considering your point and the CG issues that have been cropping up with the Goldberg models lately. And, it will definitely have plenty of power with the OS 91 four stroke.

DS.

It's not just Goldberg either. More and more planes are being designed for use with 4-strokes

The folks at http://www.infinitehobbies.com are selling the Thunder Tiger F-91s right now for $184.99 with free shipping.



The TT F-91s is a strong, reliable .91 4-stroke that isn't as popular as some competing models because it weighs in about two to three ounces heavier than the O.S. Max .91 Surpass and the Magnum XL .91 RFS. For a plane that tends to be tail heavy, however, the TT F-91s may be the perfect engine.

Chief Aircraft still has the Magnum 91FS for 149.99 www.chiefaircraft.com. If you're on a budget.

I would go with the 60. When I started I was told that larger planes fly better. At first I ignored their advice, but as I gained additional wisdom I realized they were right.

A 60 sized airplane flies MUCH better, but has slightly higher operating costs. They require more fuel per flight and a more expensive engine. The superior flight characteristics plus the "cool" factor of flying something bigger far outweigh the negatives.

You got to remember that most trainers are .40 size mostly because that size is a tradoff between the advantages of small and the advantages of big. If you can afford a .60 size plane and the somewhat greater amount of fuel it burns and you drive a car that easily carries it to the field, then go for .60.

I haul a .60 size plane in a Geo Metro but that's about all I can carry to the field in that car.

I have a pickup with a capper, no problems with transport. Why the fuss about a four stroke though? Why pay three times as much? Aren't there more parts, more things to go wrong? (I don't know, I am asking 'cause I am new).

I was looking at a Tower Hobbies .75 two stroke, or a Super Tiger G-75. Both have what looks like some pretty good power, and if I remember right, they both got decent reviews and both are around $100.

I am concerned about the bigger of the two sizes for take off and landing. The area we fly is plenty big enough, but the take off/landing area is fairly small.

The Tiger 60 besides being tail heavy is an incredible flying airplane, Very aerobatic and lands like a dream
My tiger with CGRetired's old 61 sf and a 10 oz tank gives me about a 10 min flight. Plane weighs in
at 7lb 6oz (Dick I moved the CG to 4 1/2 inches and lost 7 oz). The vertical climb on the planes is
Respectable not unlimited with a .61.

Starfire, the Tiger 2 was my second plane and was very much like the tiger 60. The wind
did push it around alot more and I was having a problem seeing it when I flew out
over the field. My tiger 2 saw 4 crash and rebuilds before I gave it back to the guy
who gave it to me. I saw it fly 2 weekends ago and it still flies great. I just prefer a larger
model. and the tiger 60 seemed to fit in all aspects, size, price, and performance.

I wouldn't worry about the takeoff/landing area. These easier flying airplanes can fly incredibly slowly before they stall and consequently don't use much runway. In fact, most people come in way too hot with them.

Yes, four strokes are more complicated so there's more to go wrong. They also require more break-in time. They have many good traits such as holding mixture settings better, but if you are happy with your two-strokes then by all means keep using them. They're great engines. I personally use both two and four strokes. If you pick the Tiger 60 I would choose the Super Tigre. It's a heavier engine and will correct the default tail heavy condition of the airframe. Why they can't choose their balsa in such a way to eliminate the CG problem is beyond me. [:'(]
It's a good plane though.

I am going to a 4* 60, I am lucky, I have an OS .61 and a OS .91 4 Stroke that I could put into the plane, so the engine is not an issue for me, plus, I want to use my OS .46 FX into a GP Corsair I have hanging in my son's room.

The only disadvantage of the bigger plane is getting an engine, and the fact that it burns fuel at a much higher rate than a .40 sized engine. I think once you get bigger than a .60 sized plane you should start to think about going to a Gas engine, just because the big Glow motors burn SO much fuel!

I purchase the Kaos from Tower Hobbies for my second plane. My question is when do you or how do you know when to make the transition from your trainer to the second plane? I have the os max .40LA in my trainer. It's underpowered so I can't do a whole lot with the plane. I'm happy with just the run of the mill flying that I have been doing with my trainer. So when do I move up?
Thanks
chopper man

Deciding when to move on is a very personal decision and is very different for everybody. Honestly ask yourself these questions: Are you confident every time you fly? Can you make a good crosswind landing precisely using the rudder? Have you been practicing any mild aerobatics? Do you still get disoriented? Can you consistently tune an engine properly and not worry about it quitting mid-flight? If you are still content with the trainer then I would still fly it. The more time you put on the trainer the better the chances for success when you decide to move up. If you feel you're ready just take it easy with your new plane for a little bit and get to know it very well. I usually spend a couple months of flying with a new model before I feel I am adequately acquainted with itl. It easily takes longer to get is set up just exactly how I want it.

Hi starfire73 , I would also go with the larger 60 size planes. They are less twitchy, fly smoother, and look much more impressive in the air not to mention easier to see. As others have mentioned the 60 size doesn't need a longer field to take off or land than the 40 size. As far as engines my favorite for the 60 size planes is the Tower Hobbies 75. Mine have proven to be very reliable performers and have strong smooth power output. The price for this engine is also a bargain. Why buy 1 four stroke when you can have one TH 75s and $100.00 left over to put towards the plane?? [8D]

I have a Tiger 60 and I can tell you it's a good looking stable aerobat. It makes a great second plane as it slows down nicely for landings and takeoffs are a breeze. Mine is equipped with an O.S. 91 Surpass Four Stroke and I believe it's the perfect combo. Vertical power is great, but not unlimited and with a 13x8, you won't go wrong.

thanks for the info. everyone... it's all very helpful.

Two stroke versus four stroke truly is a matter of preference. I currently have 4 flyable planes and 3 have four strokes. I have a kit in progress that will get a four stroke. My brother currently has 5 or 6 flyable, all with four strokes.

My main reason to use four strokes is that they seem to run better than two strokes at low throttle settings. This could just be my imagination, but I think it's really true.

I also like the sound of a four stroke better than the sound of a two stroke.

Four strokes have more moving parts, but my brother and I have not had any problems with our engines. You need a tach to set the needles, and they tend to stay set. Otherwise it's just fuel up and go.

I went with low wing 40 size (WM T-34 OS 46 AX) before I went to 60's and up. Seemed to help a lot for myself. Just my thought.